American akita owners out there ????

[James brew]

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Wen best time too let your akita off lead as I'm getting a boy who 3 years old on Monday the person said he pulls a lot and he don't walk him so I'm going too take him on u think he be ok off lead ? The other person said he not tried it what u think ? He will be muzzled as he comes with one

 

[Ari_RR]

I would think it depends on the environment you are in. If you walk them in rural area, forest, fields with no one there... and are worried about the boy encountering some wild life - then perhaps this is not too bad.

If you have an unpredictable dog, with unknown temperament, the size of an Akita, where other dogs, humans, children etc walk - I would be hard pressed to let him off lead even if muzzled. I would first test the water, perhaps on a long line and harness, or in controlled encounters with known dogs/humans, before even considering off lead. Just my 2 cents.

1st on my to-do list would be to train nice on-lead walking.
If the problem is his pulling on lead, then the solution is not letting him off lead muzzled, but training to walk without pulling.

 

[Kara 1]

I would never let a dog offlead until i had owned him for at least 3 months ...
With the current doglaw as it is even if he is muzzled whilst offlead any threatening behaviour from him could have devastating consequences. ...i would wait and assess his behaviour first. ..there are quite a few akitas around here and none of them are ever offlead ....i spoke to a lady who has 2 and she says they are too unpredictable. ...she walks them for at least 5 miles a day ...
Once he is in a good routine with walking him regularly and having offlead time at home in the garden....
Let us know how you get on

 

[leashedForLife]

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Whoops! -
Sorry, but that won’t work. A muzzled dog *cannot* be let off-lead, except in such few cases as those highly-sociable dogs who are muzzled solely to prevent them eating dangerous items... such as dogs who have a pica compulsion, that is the uncontrollable urge to eat inedible stuff. // Those dogs are a tiny, tiny fraction of the popn of pet dogs, & it’s vanishingly unlikely that this particular Akita is among their number.

I’m a trainer, & one of my 2 heart-dogs was a F Akita, so i’ve reared an Akita from puphood & lived with her, plus trained other folks’ Akitas & related breeds - Shibas, etc.

Akitas are a guarding breed that is well-known to be both able & willing to bite, with less provocation than other guarding breeds; all dogs are CAPABLE of biting, but why they will bite, how hard they will bite, & what damage they can do, varies widely.

Being WILLING to bite a human with force is actually a pretty rare trait; dogs normally refuse to bite a person unless they are A: in pain, B: badly frightened & unable to escape / retreat, C: defending their neonate pups from a perceived threat [dams], D: defending their “turf” or personal space from intrusion, E: defending something precious to them - their food, a prized toy, their family or a loved one, & similar [“resource guarding”], or F: being teased, harassed, or provoked.
A dog who is in pain & being handled by the vet to determine where the pain is, is obviously a bite risk, & should be muzzled with a properly fitted basket muzzle before any diagnostic exam - if s/he isn’t muzzled & bites the vet, the vet tech, or the vet’s assistant, IMO that’s their own fault; the dog is clearly not to blame.

Akitas are generally not very friendly to strangers - they are TOLERANT of strangers if they have been well-socialized, but are generally aloof & don’t approach for petting or cuddles, they approach to investigate what manner of person this is, & where they’ve been, lately - but it’s usually not an invitation to touch, it’s mere curiosity.

Additionally, they are notorious for being dog-aggro, by which I mean not merely reactive [bark, lunge, hackle, posture, etc], but actively aggressive, especially to same-sex dogs.
Letting him roam off-leash is a perfect set-up for a dog fight, even if he’s muzzled - & BEING muzzled, he would be unable to defend himself from another dog, in any conflict, even one he starts himself.

The standing rule is, if any one dog is muzzled, ALL THE DOGS in that shared space, are all muzzled.
Obviously, U will not be able to convince every dog-owner in the area to muzzle their own dogs, so that he can be muzzled & run about! - that’s extremely unlikely, & a very big, big ask of fellow dog-owners.

Is he neutered? -
if yes, he is slightly less-likely to be highly reactive / aggro toward other Ms, especially intact Ms. // If he’s intact, odds are that he won’t be tolerant of other intact Ms; he will posture challengingly, which will provoke a similar reaction from the other M. It usually escalates from there.


How sociable is he with other dogs? -
Does he have any dog buddies with whom he can play, & if so, what are those dogs like? // Opp-sex & both dogs neutered is the safest combo for off-leash play, & similar size plus similar play styles is also helpful.

Bully breeds tend to be very mouthy, persistent, & full-body-contact players, it’s like tackle football, but rougher - which doesn’t go over well with Akitas, generally; nor does the typical Larry Labrador, leap-all-over, body-slam, slobber & mouth, grab & maul - Labs are generally way-too teen thug, for most dogs.
BCs & Aussies & similar collie-types / herders are snappy in play, & can be control freaks- “U run, & I’ll stop U, direct U, or grab yer ankles, OK?... it’ll be great fun, for me!...”
Such fun-police tactics are usually loathed, by the non-herding types.

SIGHTHOUNDS are a special case -
they love running games [tag, chase, etc], but they have incredibly thin skin which rips easily, & often cannot be sewn to close; like rabbits, they frequently require skin-glue to close a tear, or butterfly bandaging rather than sutures.
They are thus not a good choice as playmates for snappy dog breeds [collies / GSDs / Aussies, Siberians & other Nordics, JRTs & other terrierrrists, Chis, Dachsies, etc], nor for grabby breeds who like rough play [bully breeds - Rotts, pit bulls, EBTs, Staffies, Boxers, etc].

That doesn’t mean some individual dogs of disparate types, cannot be great playmates - I have seen Labs who lie down in order to play mouthy games with their JRT buddies [self-handicapping is the sign of a really well-socialized, polite dog], & BCs who played nicely with Boxers, but generally speaking, similar play styles & similar size, plus opp-sex & both neutered, is the combo most-likely to succeed.

Also, Akitas can be PREDATORY -
birds are a common trigger, but livestock & wildlife can also be potential targets, as can cats, small dogs, & even running children [toddlers, especially].

Have U met him? -
How is he with human strangers?
It’s not uncommon for Akitas to react badly to fast-moving, intrusive, or weird strangers - joggers abruptly arriving, bicyclists who pass too closely, ppl who move jerkily or use mobility aids [walking frames, canes, etc, which can be perceived by a guarding breed as “weapons” / threats], ppl who talk to themselves, who act or sound odd, or who reach out uninvited to touch them.

No matter how friendly he might be to ME, I would never let any dog that i had just met, of any breed or mix, loose off-lead outside a fence, until I felt i knew that dog quite well, & had seen her / him in multiple settings, with many varied distractions or possible provocations, over at least a few months’ time.
IOW, if i adopted a dog tomorrow, it would be at least mid-April before s/he would be off leash outside a fence, even if s/he was highly sociable & friendly with other dogs & humans in general, of whatever age, size, shape, color, diet, or other variants. // I would want that long to put them into various situations, & carefully observe how they react; I would want to test their recall on a long line undistracted, then with various distractions, & finally with distance [from me], before i concluded that they might be ready for off leash time, when random passersby may interact with them, & i won’t be able to immediately restrain or remove my dog.

Given his breed, I would say that simply turning him loose is an invitation to disaster.

Why does the current owner not walk him on leash?
That would instantly make me wonder if he’s not highly reactive to other dogs, especially same-sex, as Akitas are very prone to same-sex aggro.


“He pulls” is a lame excuse; a front-clipped Y harness, with the leash clipped to the dog’s chest, is a simple, cheap, effective way to control even giant breeds who pull, & a positively pre-conditioned head collar is another simple, effective tool.

The front-clip harness is an immediate-use option; the head collar takes about a week to properly introduce & habituate before it is worn WITH the leash ATTACHED for the 1st time - prior to that 1st brief leashed walk, it is only worn with the leash on the front-clip harness, or clipped on a wide martingale collar [1.5 to 2-inch wide limited slip sighthound-style collar, which is adjusted to sit smooth & snug at the very top off the neck, near the ears & jaw].


Last Q:
Do U have, or can U afford, proper liability insurance?
If he does injure someone [another dog, a person, a roaming cat, livestock...], U may need a good liability policy to save U from bankruptcy.
I don’t know what country U call home, but U-S dog law & bites are a highly, highly litigious, very emotional legal issue, & in the UK, any human-directed aggro, even WITHOUT a bite or even touch from the dog, but simply frightening a person, can get him labeled ‘dangerous’ as a legal term, & put him at risk of confiscation & euthanasia.


If he was mine, I’d start out with a front-clipped harness & a long-line, & walk him in areas with good sightlines, so that i can see other persons or dogs approaching long before they get to us; I’d also put him on the OUTSIDE of any path, so that i’d be between him & any person or dog coming toward us, & anyone passing us from behind would pass me, not him.

I’d also get good liability insurance, ASAP; ask other dog owners local to U what companies or policies they can recommend, or research policies on-line prior to contacting a company / an agent.
As a dog trainer in the USA, the gold standard here for liability policies is KennelPro, & Dennis Stower is [or was] their national rep for trainers’ insurance. // It’s a policy which goes with U anywhere in the world, but it protects only OTHER PERSONS, not U, from property or personal damage done by a dog U are handling.

Congratulations on the new family member, Akitas are great dogs in the right home.

- terry

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[JoanneF]

It's a natural instinct for dogs to pull (oppositional reflex if you want to read more). Training him to stop is extremely possible if you are prepared to put some time into it - try this

 

[JudyN]

A muzzled dog *cannot* be let off-lead, except in such few cases as those highly-sociable dogs who are muzzled solely to prevent them eating dangerous items...

That is a huge generalisation, and not one I agree with. Some dogs (like mine) are muzzled not because they are 'likely' to bite, but in case things go horribly wrong - a screeching child runs up and throws their arms round the dog's neck, someone 'helpfully' grabs hold of the dog's collar, he steals someone's picnic and they try to reclaim it, he's tucking into a cow poo and someone tries to shove him away... In these circumstances, with a muzzle, the chances of him harming anyone are minuscule. It's like wearing a seat belt - we don't wear them because something is likely to go wrong. (I also disagree with your list of poor playmates for sighthounds - following that logic, sighthounds shouldn't play with each other as they can also be 'grabby' in play.)

As has been said, you need to get to know this akita, work on his recall from day one (in the house, on a long lead or in an enclosed space), and find out what he's like with other dogs. Find out why he's muzzled too. Then take it from there. In the meantime, make sure he gets enough mental stimulation as it's easy for a bored frustrated energy-filled dog to 'boil over' in the face of triggers on walks.

 

[leashedForLife]

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@JudyN ,
I know that Ur dog is one of those exceptions - Jasper has known triggers & has an established Hx of bites to nonfamily persons & even family members, plus he can be iffy with other dogs, & in addition [IIRC] he can be predatory -
He’s quite accustomed to his muzzle, it’s an everyday part of his wardrobe, & he’s safer for passersby with his muzzle on.

Doesn’t Jasper often wear a long-line or a drag-line as well, or am i thinking of another dog?...

However - above, i am naturally posting generalities, & the usual rule is that if U muzzle one dog in shared space, they are ALL muzzled for free interaction, to protect the muzzled dog from being the target of aggro, & helpless to defend themselves.
Of course, there are exceptions! - if I were to list them all, i’d be writing a book, LOL, & i think my previous post is quite long enuf, thanks.

Just as one example:
If i was retraining a dog with known dog-aggro to safely interact with other dogs under close supervision, after that dog had already been desensitized / counter-conditioned [DS/CC] first on a leash, then on a long line,
I’d be matching that dog with ONE other dog of opp sex who was neutered [either sex], & muzzling only the known aggressor - but i’d be pairing them with a highly social, very tolerant dog, close to their own size, AND... i’d have a long-line & harness on both dogs, clipped to the chest, with the lines dragging, so that if either one became irritated or over-excited, i or my helper could remove the aroused dog immediately.

And yes, in that scenario, there would be 2 ppl present; i wouldn’t do such B-Mod solo - at the very minimum, the other dog’s owner would be there to help, responsible for removing their own dog if need be, while I would be the one to remove the known aggressor, or another experienced trainer would be there as back-up.


Letting a dog run off leash while wearing a muzzle is not recommended, period - EXCEPT in specific circs, & in this case, with a dog that the OP barely knows whom s/he has just adopted, & random dogs plus random persons coming & going, doing random actions?... it’s a high-risk choice.
Throw in the chance of wildlife encounters, free-roaming cats, bikes, joggers, etc, & it’s simply too unpredictable.

BTW - if this dog is never walked on leash, & has never run OFF leash, he has also never had any recall training. // Turning him loose to run off leash could end with him miles away, & completely lost.


The OP should also bear in mind that muzzled dogs need special attention in order to drink - a sport-cap water bottle can be slipped into the SIDE of their mouths, to dribble into the flews safely, or s/he can plunge the whole muzzle & their foreface into a bucket in order to drink.
They cannot drink from an ordinary shallow bowl, whilst wearing a box muzzle - they can’t get enuf of the muzzle under the surface to drink adequately.
Staying hydrated is very important for a dog who’s under stress, whether that’s physical, emotional, or medical stress - dogs under stress pant more than usual, & lose water in the process of panting.

teaching a dog to drink from a sport-cap bottle is pretty simple - just don’t put the spout at the FRONT of the dog’s mouth / front of the muzzle, it always goes to the side, & don’t squeeze the bottle to make the water emerge forcefully.
Either one - straight down the throat, or a forceful stream - can cause choking, & / or inhalation pneumonia. A gentle trickle, from the side, is safe.

Cheers,
- terry

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[JudyN]

Doesn’t Jasper often wear a long-line or a drag-line as well, or am i thinking of another dog?...

No, he doesn't - he does have a very short (8"?) cut-down lead that I leave on him because he's collar shy but is happy for me to grab that, which makes it much easier for me to get hold of him and lead him past potential triggers.

 

[Mad Murphy]

Agree with everyone else it would be daft to let this dog off lead before you are really sure of him. You would be putting his life at risk and for what?
Take time gain his trust get to know him and work up to off lead walking when all the rest is good.

 

[JudyN]

. Jasper has known triggers & has an established Hx of bites to nonfamily persons

I should also add that he has NEVER bitten anyone outside the family. He's certainly given people clear warnings on occasions though.

 

[leashedForLife]

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Oops! - sorry, @JudyN -
I thought he’d tagged some folks other than those that he lives with, my mistake.

Has he nipped anyone on the vet staff [yet], or is he still trying to tag them?

I know he gets upset at the vet’s, that’s such a common trigger - loads of dogs who look like butter wouldn’t melt in their mouths, turn into Cujo at the vet’s, complete with slavering fangs, roars of rage, & snarls that sound like chain-saws ripping lumber.



When i got my Akita pup, i made a point of taking her to my vet’s clinic for “wellness visits”, where nothing scary or painful happened, & she got onto the floor scale, met the receptionist, lay in the waiting room gnawing a cow hoof while i read an article or 2, & got some treats & pets from the staff. // Then we’d leave.
My vet thot i was nuts, ‘cuz she visited his office 6 times for zero care, LOL.

THEN... she bloated, at 4-AM one night, when she was just 7-MO. ; she had an emergency ab-surgery, a gastropexy to ensure her GDV couldn’t recur, & a 14-inch incision as a souvenir.
Man oh man, was he ever glad i’d done all those “pointless” cookie visits! She was the poster child for a model Akita patient. Good girl!

- terry

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[JudyN]

Has he nipped anyone on the vet staff [yet], or is he still trying to tag them?

No, but he's always muzzled there. He's fine going into the reception and getting weighed, and will take treats from the receptionists but won't let them touch him. The vet has to 'herd' him into the consulting room, where I wrap his lead round the table leg as short as possible and then stuff treats into his mouth, but he still has a meltdown if the vet puts hands on him. It's pure fear - because as much as you accustom him to 'good' experiences at the vet's, there are always going to be some times when what happens will be 'bad', particularly when you're so sensitive.