Any Advice Welcome - Biting Dog

[J.T.]

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I've just started doing some voluntary work at a small sanctuary. I'm going in a couple of times a week & trying to do some 1-1 work with the dogs.

Today I worked with 2 dogs for about an hour each.

Leo is very nervous so I didn't do much other than try to gain his confidence, at the end of the session he would take a treat from my hand )

The other dog was the absolute opposite & was very bouncy, full of confidence but has no manners at all. He was found tied to the gate of the sanctuary so there is no history on him but he is only a youngster. He is a big solid dog, lab crossed with either staffy or maybe rotty. Very friendly but his BIG problem is that he lunges at people & grabs the clothing & also their arms.

Tonight I'm a mass of bruises & tooth marks up both arms. At one point he had hold of my wrist & I really thought it was going to snap (w00t)

There is absolutely No malice in this dog, he just doesn't know he shouldn't do this.

I'm using a clicker with him & by the end of the session he was sitting in front of me for his treat instead of launching at me.

A tuggy toy just seemed to wind him up more & treats are limited as he has had the runs a bit.

Any suggestions will be welcome here. He will make a great dog for someone ( with metal arms :lol: ) but at the moment he is out of control.

I'm willing to keep trying with him but don't want to mess him up any more than he already is.

I'm going again next week & am going to be wearing something solid on my arms, like motorcross body armour. I may look & feel slightly stupid but at least he won't be able to get a grip of me. Once his teeth are blunted he may get the message :- "

Any ideas???

 

[FeeFee]

How fantastic of you giving your time like this :huggles:

It sounds like this lad is going to be tough work but very worth it. It's going to be very difficult to work with this in a kennels situation, though.

I'll have to have a think on this one, but first thoughts are that he sounds as though he might respond well to a NILIF regime. I'm not normally a huge fan of this sort of training, but he really has got to grasp pretty quickly that he only gets any response to calm behavior, anything else is ignored (as far as you can ignore a dog hanging off your arm :wacko: ).

Clicker is great, and it sounds as though you are already getting some response to this. It sounds as though he is very bright, just bored and frustrated and has never had any boundaries set.

 

[J.T.]

Thanks, I've just read all the NILIF info & it all makes perfect sense but as you say it's going to be pretty impossible to put into practice in a kennel situation.

Today was the first time I'd met Paddy & he is a lovely bright dog.

I'd been warned to wear something old as he would jump up but I hadn't realised how intense he was going to be (w00t)

He was fine for a while & then all of a sudden he'd launch himself at me & just grab my sleeve & start tugging. Any reaction from me of any sort was giving him attention but also, I couldn't just ignore him. He seemed to be oblivious to any attempt from me to get him to let go. It really did hurt as he was chomping on my wrist & I can see each individual fang mark all the way round my arm :rant: NOT GOOD!!!

The only good thing is, he's not a nasty dog so he's not putting any real effort into his attacks, it's all just a big (very painful ) game to him.

I did eventually get to the point where if I said SIT very forcefully he would amazingly SIT so I know there is hope for him but it's going to take a while.

Best stock up on the arnica cream :- "

 

[Mr Whippy]

I agree with FeeFee's advice. I have a rescue lurcher who also mouthed and again, although he didn't mean it to, it hurt. In my case I'm fortunate in that he is so reserved he only exhibited this behaviour with myself or my husband. It was literally like he tried to grab attention. His main trick was to nip your bum - which he only ever did when he was over excited/anxious.

I employed the NILF approach, which sounds heartless but it needn't be. It's simply a way of saying I'm boss and you have to go through me first before you get what you want. For example, my dog reclines on my sofa, sleeps in my bed, gets cuddles & kisses, we play games, go training etc BUT I give him the initial invite to do all of the above which I have trained him to understand. In conjunction with his obedience/Good Citizen classes this has made him a much more secure, self confident animal who no longer feels the need to mouth. I never had to teach him not to - I simply channelled his energies in other ways and let him know I was his boss not a plaything.he knows the rules and this makes him feel secure.

I hope this comes across the way I intended, as I just wanted to show that giving your dog structure and rules doesn't mean an unhappy dog, quite the opposite my dog loves knowing where he stands and his 'attention grabbing' behaviour has disappeared as a result.

Good luck and well done for putting in the effort to help dogs when they most need it- if you can addresss his issues before being rehomed it may prevent them from bouncing back. If a family with kids had taken on my dog I can easily see how he would have been returned - luckily I was in a position to work it through. I hope you can do the same. :luck: :luck:

 

[JAX]

Im a big fan of Ceasar Milan :wub: and when he has an `out of control` type dog the first thing he does is take it on a run or hard exercise to tire him out , when the dogs havnt so much energy they are more prone to listen to you ,

His regime is

Exercise , discipline and affection , in that order .

As you said, using the pulling toy wound him up , and as Ceasar would say `took him to a higher zone ` o

Good luck , you are doing a grand job :cheers:

 

[saraquele]

Im a big fan of Ceasar Milan  :wub: and when he has an `out of control` type dog the first thing he does is take it on a run or hard exercise to tire him out , when the dogs havnt so much energy they are more prone to listen to you ,
His regime is

Exercise , discipline and affection , in that order .

As you said, using the pulling toy wound him up , and as Ceasar would say `took him to a higher zone  ` o

Good luck , you are doing a grand job  :cheers:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

i said i would NEVER get married again , but ceaser milan :wub: yes i know he is already married and its a case of " in my dreams " but no harm in drooling o

i think he is fantastic and i rarely miss an episode , every night lol

if i have a dog that jumps up in rescue i put my knee up , so when it jumps at you its chest gets your knee , this is only for the big heavy naughty dogs , it blocks them and gives a short , sharp shock , it dosent hurt them but it just protects your body and teaches them to give you space .

it is very difficult when they are in kennels as the good work you put in could be undone by the staff the rest of the week , can you speak with the people looking after him and device a training programm between you ? maybe leave the sit / stay work up to you but things to stop him jumping etc as consistency is the biggest factor , as you know :thumbsup:

well done for your hard work :thumbsup: good luck :luck:

 

[FeeFee]

It's very difficult, he needs loads of exercise and absolutely consistent handling with very firm boundaries, none of which are really possible in kennels.

The only thing I can think of immediately is to fold your arms and turn your back on him. The minute he stops lunging/mouthing, click and treat.

I wouldn't even go so far as trying to train a 'sit' with him at the moment, he needs to be rewarded for any form of calm behaviour, even if it's just for a few seconds while he's working out which bit to jump at next (w00t)

The problem is he really needs this to be completely consistent, and if other kennels staff don't use the same tactic and he EVER gets fed or fussed when he's behaving badly it will undo everything you do with him.

Sorry, I'm not really being much help :wacko: I'll hav a think and PM you later with e-mail addresses for a couple of people who might be able to give more and better advice.

(and sorry, I actually can't stand Cesar Milan personally and don't like his methods at all, but that's another topic :- " )

 

[kita]

My dog (a giant breed) used to do this with me when he was young. It is difficult to ignore a big dog when they are jumping up and grabbing your arm or sleeve - it also gets very painful when they grab your arm constantly. My arm was constantly covered in bruises and scratches.

The best way of preventing the grabbing/nipping that I found was to walk him in a baskerville type muzzle. OK it does not stop the behaviour, but it does stop him grabbing and holding on. This allows you time to work CALMLY on the jumping up and he will be easier to ignore if he cannot hold on. It also prevents your arms getting so sore!!

I only had to use the muzzle for a while (must admit I used to get some funny looks, some people actually accused me of being cruel).

Must say I am not a fan of Cesar either, my dog would do this behaviour after a two hour walk!!! so it was definately not lack of exercise.

It is quite possible that people have taught him to do this - I have often seen local youths with staffie type dogs teaching them to jump up and grab arms/sleeves etc. They often also teach them to grab people's feet by 'playfully' kicking out at the dog. Retraining could take some time.

Hope you are able to find him a good, understanding home. Sadly dogs like you describe can be difficult to find homes for.

 

[J.T.]

Thanks for all the input )

My bruises have come up lovely today . I've got myself some of Neils old Speedway arm protectors which I'm going to wear on top of my thick jacket. I reckon if he can't get a grip of my arms (his main target area) we may make more progress.

Then again he may just go for another body part :angry:

If so then I will ask for him to be muzzled in future as he really does hurt.

I'll keep you updated with Paddys progress ) if my arms are still attached that is :blink:

Julie :thumbsup: