Bakewell

[Nicola]

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Hi,

I'm off to wander around the Bakewell Show tomorrow where they're also holding an open dog show (496 classes). Weather forecast looks fine...although there will be plenty of mud about thanks to all the rain we've had recently, going by previous years.

Going to have a good wander round the flower and livestock shows as well as the dog show, and will probably spend money I haven't really got on things i don't really need. :unsure:

Is anyone else going? Not a Champ show but just wondered.

 

[dawn]

Whippet judging was today amongst the sporting breeds. Non sporting dogs tomorrow.

 

[janfiers]

Been to Bakewell today, but didn't even get a sniff of the rest of the show as I was stewarding for Whippets, and a whole bunch of gundogs. We finally finished with the Gundog Group at 4.30 from 10am, with a short lunch break. Boy was I glad that we had taken a load of our own food, as the judges & stewards lunches do leave a little something to be desired.

Good to see some K9 regulars there. I'm probably going to get shot down in flames here but I think it's such a pity that people feel the need to run with their Whippets, especially as they don't need to. All it does is exaggerate the faults! Moving apace to keep up with a well moving dog is completely different. Good to see that K9'rs weren't falling into the same trap! One Whippet in particular did well, but the picture was spoiled (for me at any rate) because the handler ran and this exaggerated the front movement to almost "pony trotting" and did not look as free flowing as it should. I had to have my rant, so to speak, but that is my pet hate!

A returner from Tammsvik looked as though she had thoroughly enjoyed her excursion out there. Now I wonder who that could've been?

Jan

 

[JAX]

Yep , Had a good day at Bakewell show . Fleur won Open Mikke only got 2nd and 3rd in the breed but 4th in the Puppy stakes .

Alflyn with Flyn won Post grad. whippet and the OPEN stakes :b £15.00 for that ,but she didnt share it

Debbie and I did a bit of retail therapy and bought some tops .

We both tried on dresses (w00t) Not sure who looked the oddest and silliest !! :b any way we decided against dreesses for this year :- "

The weather was good and we all had an enjoyable day out . Well me and OH did

 

[Nicola]

Oh..I can't believe I missed the whippets..I assumed they would be on the 2nd day...doh :angry: I thought sporting meant gundogs etc

Oh well.....still get to see the Mini Schnauzers :b

 

[aslan]

I'm probably going to get shot down in flames here but I think it's such a pity that people feel the need to run with their Whippets, especially as they don't need to.  All it does is exaggerate the faults! 

exaggerated faults ? Means the fault is there in the first place and it only becomes more obvious with running. That's how it should be. If the dog can't move at some speed then "it can't move". People do need to 'run' with their whippets.

Let's first sort out what "running" means. The handler is running (not sprinting), the dog is trotting. The dog should be moving at a medium paced trot, not a walk. The walk is a four time movement, the trot is a two time movement. Side action - reach and drive and long low flowing movement can be seen best at the trot. Dogs who have this will display it BEST with their handler running (not sprinting) and themselves moving at a medium paced trot. Dogs who don't have it will not show it. Slow them all down to a walk (or even a very slow trot) and the reach and drive is not necessary and not shown and all side extension looks pretty much the same. "Run" them I say (and in Australia we all do). Let's sort the wheat out from the chaff.

 

[aslan]

Umm - perhaps Jan and I are off topic here and this needs to be a separate thread ... Nigel?

 

[Terry & Sheila Smith]

Let's first sort out what "running" means.  The handler is running (not sprinting), the dog is trotting.  The dog should be moving at a medium paced trot, not a walk.  The walk is a four time movement, the trot is a two time movement.  Side action - reach and drive and long low flowing movement

Our standard calls for a "daisy cutting" gait which as I understand it isn't a trot. Whippets are gallopers not trotters & a trotting action doesn't really tell you anything about it's athletic ability. A brisk walk should let a decent judge know whether a dog is capable of free & even movement. The reach & drive thing is a yankee concept where judges like to see dogs & handlers "ask for it!". Being introverted Brits we don't have the same attitude. Another factor is our dogs are still largely owner handled. A limber young person is very often competing against someone of advanced years who isn't that good on their feet anymore a walk is fairer for all competitors. A dog show is about the dogs not the handlers ability.

If you think the KC shows are bad visit a lurcher show where half the "handlers" have had a few scoops waiting for their class to come up. Great fun!!

Terry Smith

 

[whipowill]

:unsure: Does the current and most recently approved Whippet Standard still mention daisy cutting movement?

Does anyone have the very latest whippet standard so we can check?

This is not an attempt to be argumentative, o just want to know.

 

[playawhile]

Hi!

The expression "daisy cutting" has never been used directly in the standard (English), but I suppose it's a way of explaining what the standard is asking for: "Free. hindlegs coming well under body for propulsion. Forelegs trown well forward low over the ground, true coming and going. General movement not to look stilted, high stepping, short or mincing"

I think there are a few key words in the describing of whippet movement - low over the ground (daisy cutting), propulsion (in the back), thrown well forward (in the front). When I read this I do see a whippet in front of me moving with a free flowing kind of energy saving movement low over the ground. Comparing with cars, a whippet with nice sidegait moves on fifth gear, but to me ther are to many whippets moving on third gear and the stride is to short.

Henrik

 

[gajo]

Some interesting thoughts on movement- I'm definately with Lana on this one. Will concede though that some people(self included at times) do go too fast with their whips.

As for everyone going the same pace because it is fairer, respectfully- what rot :clown: . The idea is to find the best whippet.

 

[dawn]

IMO

You have to move at a pace that is right for that particular dog, not any 2 of ours are the same.

Rico I would trot with to get the best out of him but if i tried that with one of the youngsters she would just be really giddy, so I have to walk at a fast pace.

I think you have to assess each dog individually and take it from there.

 

[Morgan]

dawn Posted on Aug 5 2004, 08:50 AM   IMO

You have to move at a pace that is right for that particular dog, not any 2 of ours are the same.

Rico I would trot with to get the best out of him but if i tried that with one of the youngsters she would just be really giddy, so I have to walk at a fast pace.

I think you have to assess each dog individually and take it from there. 

:cheers: I do completly agree with you :thumbsup:

 

[dessie]

Yes, I'm with Dawn and Tamara, each dog needs to be shown at the pace suitable to them ......... not the handler or what everyone else is doing. You show your dog to its best advantage and that includes standing it as well as moving it.

 

[aslan]

The description of movement in the standard describes how the dog should move at a trot - not at a walk or pace or gallop or canter - but at the trot.

A galloping breed whippets may be, but they are not judged at a gallop in the ring, they are judged on their galloping at racing or coursing. Lap Dogs are not judged on laps either - they are also asked to move at a trot. They may not be bred to run but they still have to move according to their structure and the standard dictates how that movement should be.

From The Dog in Action by Macdowell Lyon

"The perky Chihuahua has the identical number of bones and muscles, which he uses for the changeless principles of locomotion, as does the mighty Dane. This is true throughout dogdom despite the fact that some dogs are bred to meet specific and unusual conditions or to fit a pattern of fancy. The conformation that makes a crab runner of a night hound will do the same for My Lady's Pom." p.11

"[The trot] shows the faults and virtues of a dog's running gear more clearly to the judge than any other gait regardless of whether he's a galloper by trade or not." p45

The reach & drive thing is a yankee concept where judges like to see dogs & handlers "ask for it!". Quote Terry Smith

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you Terry - the standard calls for reach and drive as Henrik pointed out and if I'm not wrong our australian standard is pretty much a copy of the English one.

a trotting action doesn't really tell you anything about it's athletic ability Quote Terry Smith

I think there would be thousands of people who would disagree with you on that one.

And yes there are other factors to be considered when assessing athletic ability, like heart and determination, desire for the chase etc. but if the dog isn't built right - he may be fast, but how long will he last? and we have been there before.

Again, from the abovementioned book,

"In comparing the value of the trot with the gallop as a means of locomotion, our judgement may be warped by the memory of some of our great flat track racers. Yet, when we consider that the best running time for the mile is only about 20 seconds faster than for the trotter pulling a sulky, it gives us a different slant.

"The trot is admirably suited for rough, irregular ground and for travelling long distances at a fair rate of speed. It is the natural foraging gait for most wild animals. No one leg has more work to do than its opposite and the diagonal support make it easier for the dog to maintain equilibrium." p48

"It can be rightly said that, to the observer, the trot will reveal the structure and conformation of the dog more than any other gait - it is a window to the entire room' p 50.

 

[Veredon]

I agree with Dawn and Aslan,you move to pace that suits your Dog best,LONG EASY STRIDE is what the standard asks for.A dog with goood movment will cover the ground moving efficiently and moving at varied speeds should not be a problem to a true mover.

 

[Jan Doherty]

Have to admit to having to jog to keep up with one of my IGs

But there again I have short fat legs so I have to jog to kep up with everyone :b

 

[JAX]

Agree with Dessie here o , you move your dog to get the best out of it and to its advantage , In A place ive just been to 8) , no names ! ,in the class i was in they wenrt round like they were on fire !

On the Sunday, in the class of over 40 dogs we were split into groups of 10 for the initial move round the ring , Luckily I was the last in the second group.

Off the leader set at a terrific pace , whilst Ken and myself (at the rear) set of at the pace I considered to show Ken at his best , before I was half way round the first dog had caught up with me !! and the rings were HUGE .( you could have got the average Champ show ring inside it 4 times )

I DIDN`T go any faster , . If she wanted to pass me then fine, or stop and then Gallop up to me again that was up to her .

Some dogs do hackney if moved to fast ( one of our most famous of whippets did , but the handler knew the correct pace for the dog ) :- " , but the thing that dogs do when moved to fast that I really hate is THEY PUT THEIR TAILS UP !!!Dont the handlers see that (w00t)

Lana mentions about the trotting horses covering much the same distance in time as a galloped horse , but of course the trotters are doing an EXTENDED and somewhat exagerated trot , not something ive ever seen a whippet do . :blink:

 

[Terry & Sheila Smith]

 

Lana wrote:-

" a trotting action doesn't really tell you anything about it's athletic ability Quote Terry Smith

I think there would be thousands of people who would disagree with you on that one."

Thousands!! Give their names & address's. This argument used to come up time & time again on some of the yankee lists probably still does. It was usually split between the show faction who had little idea about whippets other than collecting rosettes & the racers/coursers whose interest was in the breeds original function. Like you the show people trotted (no pun intended) out the values of trad the race/course faction argued against it some going so far as to claim it showed an inability to gallop flat out (something I disagree with) If trad is a indicator of function then few of the non-peds can function neither can racing greyhounds. Most of ours show nice trad IMO. None of them are that fast. Two of them suffered dropped muscles which greatly reduced their speed neither showed any loss of trad so nothing to tell a judge these dogs are no longer capable of a full athletic performance. I like to see a dog moving out like this but it's a very pretty gait nothing else.

Lana wrote

"And yes there are other factors to be considered when assessing athletic ability, like heart and determination, desire for the chase etc. but if the dog isn't built right - he may be fast, but how long will he last?"

Well go on! How long in your experience of performance whippets will "he" last? Inquiring minds want to know.

and we have been there before.

Again, from the abovementioned book,

Every book from the bible to the kama sutra has been dissected, disputed, & discredited by someone or other. As I said give me YOUR opinions based on YOUR experience.

Terry Smith

 

[Terry & Sheila Smith]

As for everyone going the same pace because it is fairer, respectfully- what rot :clown: . The idea is to find the best whippet.

So the best handled is invariably the best whippet? Doesn't a fair system allow the best to emerge from a class? "With respect" if you want to use a word like rot in a reply albeit with a mealy mouthed qualification put your real name to it.

Terry Smith

PS With respect my apologies if you really are called Gajo (nice name easy to spell)