BC 2 year old diet advice wanted again.

[Flobo]

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Please don't take offence at this but I think a big part of her problem is she is under stimulated. Collies are a very bright and active breed and need a lot of input to keep them happy both mentally and physically. When they don't get this it causes them anxiety, which can lead to behavioural problems. Setting out a plan of enrichment for her is so important, time really needs setting aside for her amongst your work schedule to implement something.
With the food stealing, maybe store it in a cupboard and keep things out of her reach as this of course won't be helping her need to poo! Have you tried splitting her meals into two as suggested and have you had a chance to look at the enrichment link from above?

 

[excuseme]

Eating some frozen raw meat should not cause any problems at all. In fact a raw meat diet could help her produce less poo (maybe you could consider this).
Maybe living in an upstairs flat is not the best for a Border Collie. Collies are highly intelligent dogs and are happy when they are given good mental stimulation and a good active out door lifestyle.
Is she a show type or a working type Border Collie. Have you had her from a puppy and has she always lived in an upstairs flat with you? When did all of these problems start?

 

[excuseme]

Oh @Flobo I have been writing my reply while you had already got yours done first, just a slight overlap !

 

[Hed50]

Routine varies a small bit by if she wakes me up in middle of night I then sleep in more in morning assuming it's not a work day but if not I wake around 9am assuming she doesn't wake me before that take her to garden aiming to be a few minutes but most of the time she just wants to do a pee and then walks back in and if I try and lead her back into garden she tightens up, then she often wants out around 11 - 11.30am I try and put it off because it's just after 12 I take her out as that is my lunch break from work, if she wanted out early i.e 10.30am I take her out at 12 still but if it's after 11 I wait until 12.30-12.45 at which point I take her out again about 3.30 to garden and give her dinner around 5pm-5.30 depending on how hungry she is. And then I take her out about 8.30 pm then again about 10pm give or take as it's when she asks as it's the evenings when I ignore her she poops. If I stay up late i.e midnight I take her out one last time if I go to bed at say 11 I don't take her back out.

I do only feed her once a day though, this is how my relatives always did with their BC's and a few people I know with BC's agree with once a day in evening and I rarely give treats but I do admit to give her a tiny amount of things off plate sometimes (as relatives did with no issues) difference is when they gave her food it was like mince, potatoes, fish, chicken and basically a few spoonfuls on top of her dry food (and then reduced dry food by a tiny bit)

I honestly don't know what her issue is, I take her out and the times I do take her on evening walk and she poops she still has poop accidents.

She does sleep under my bed though rather than beside me and on and off changes between them during the night.

I could possibly be making her anxious as I do get grumbly when she does it even though I know I shouldn't I say "oh (her name" sometimes softly but other time's it's a more stressed version and I can get mildly snappy with her such as she has stolen food from me a few times recently

Also weirdly where I have her water bowl she keeps looking in corner where it is and is spooked.

Have you tried feeding her twice a day, I have always fed puppies 4 times a day and then reduced it down to two feeds a day. You might find two smaller meals a day may satisfy her. How old is she sorry I forgot to ask. Ace my Patterjack was very easy to train, there were cat flaps that he used to go in and out of as a puppy and I used to take him out and taught him to wee and poo on command. He now has a dog door that he goes in and out of when he needs to go. He sleeps on top of the bed at night and will often go under the duvet at this time of the year. My old Border Terrier lies on top of the bed. Now she is 121/2 she has the odd mistake downstairs but I don’t get cross with either of them. If they have made a mistake it’s not worth getting upset they have short memories and you can frighten them.

 

[Hed50]

I did

Have you tried feeding her twice a day, I have always fed puppies 4 times a day and then reduced it down to two feeds a day. You might find two smaller meals a day may satisfy her. How old is she sorry I forgot to ask. Ace my Patterjack was very easy to train, there were cat flaps that he used to go in and out of as a puppy and I used to take him out and taught him to wee and poo on command. He now has a dog door that he goes in and out of when he needs to go. He sleeps on top of the bed at night and will often go under the duvet at this time of the year. My old Border Terrier lies on top of the bed. Now she is 121/2 she has the odd mistake downstairs but I don’t get cross with either of them. If they have made a mistake it’s not worth getting upset they have short memories and you can frighten them.

i didn’t realise she was a collie they are working dogs and need a lot of time and attention and if you want them as a pet they need lots of stimulation. I farmed for some years and showed sheep and the Collies I had loved working and plenty of praise. They need a lots of exercise they are not really suited to a quiet life. They are highly intelligent and aren’t pets unless you can give them the work and stimulation they need. They also need a routine, I hate to say it but she doesn’t seem to be the dog for your lifestyle.

 

[deka]

I grew up with a collie, and then my parents got another collie when I was in my mid 20's so I am used to them and both were from working backgrounds but each dog is different though I am aware how sly and intelligent collies are and how they love attention.

Pre when I broke my leg I was going out with her far more as well, sometimes I just walked and didn't stop so could be out for 2 hours but I noticed when I did that she was more disruptive, she actually loves to snuggle and nap

She gets a lot of praise, but what could be said is I live alone and just get 1 friend round per week and a relative stays over about 2 days every 6-8 weeks.

When shes at my relatives she gets a lot of fuss and constant attention, and whilst they only take her on a short 10-20 minute walk a day throughout the day she gets a chance to go in a garden when they take washing in/out and when she goes out for toilet she runs around for about 3 minutes before coming in whilst at mine she just goes into back garden and takes herself back in.

I don't know if that was just how I taught her or she thinks she needs to go back indoors.

Anyway took her to dog sitter today who mentioned how it looks like my girl has lost quite a bit of weight and she kept trying to steal food today, I have noticed myself even before I cut down her food a little last week that she seemed hungry all the time, she kept licking her bowl.

She has vets tomorrow anyway as she needs her yearly injections so will check with vet.

Also her issues started around the time she began taking stomach pills from vet which she still gets so will ask about stopping them.

 

[deka]

Eating some frozen raw meat should not cause any problems at all. In fact a raw meat diet could help her produce less poo (maybe you could consider this).
Maybe living in an upstairs flat is not the best for a Border Collie. Collies are highly intelligent dogs and are happy when they are given good mental stimulation and a good active out door lifestyle.
Is she a show type or a working type Border Collie. Have you had her from a puppy and has she always lived in an upstairs flat with you? When did all of these problems start?

Just saw your comment there, shes a working type I have had since 9 months old and living in same flat.

Going by previous diet, she was best on plain cooked chicken, and also cooked regular mince. She was bad on chicken mince but I was told here that is likely as I didn't give her anything with it, she was also bad on 2 different dry foods for different reasons, one gave her very soft almost sloppy poops another brand gave her rock solid poops, hence why she began getting supplements, the vet also at one point gave her stomach pills.

It's a flat but not a block of flats, its basically like the upstairs of someones house and the stairs accessed from living room have main door at bottom of them, it's just due to the awkward layout my garden is accessed by going around my neighbours home, all but 1 other flat in the street has direct access straight into a garden it's just mine is at the end of a street.

She has always had some form of toilet issue and in general since about 8 months old could go 4-6 weeks with no accident then one a day for a few days then resets the cycle, twice this year she had regular accidents most days and it ended up being blocked glands, could be that again but was only about 6 weeks ago she had it.

When she has toilet issues she gets quite cranky.

 

[JudyN]

Have you split her meal into two as has been suggested?

 

[deka]

Only just started yesterday, I gave it a few days to see if she improved with less food and when that didn't work have given her half food yesterday and half today.

 

[JudyN]

Only just started yesterday, I gave it a few days to see if she improved with less food and when that didn't work have given her half food yesterday and half today.

Do you mean that you are splitting her daily amount and giving her half in the morning and half in the evening each day? Or that she is only getting one half-meal a day?

 

[deka]

As in I am giving her half the full amount I used to give her twice so it makes the same amount.

Anyway back from vets her glands are ok but discussing it she thinks my girl is anxious and gave me some anxiety pills for her, I also noticed my girl has lost just over 1kg since I last used this vet (though shes not underweight) so I am thinking to up her food rather than cut it and see if that helps as she really has been cranky recently and very hungry and strealing.

 

[JudyN]

So half in the morning and half in the evening? I would continue with that for a couple of weeks before reducing overall amount if she doesn't need to lose weight.

If she's not getting the exercise and stimulation she needs then she's going to be incredibly anxious, so anti-anxiety tablets should be a final resort, not a replacement for filling her needs. More exercise will give her digestion more opportunity to work its way through and for her to poo outside the house.

 

[deka]

It is one of those things where if she didn't stress me out due to what she does I have more energy to take her out and for longer walks so quite frustrating.

So the solution to the problem is something that is hard to due because of the problem, can't win.

 

[JudyN]

Sometimes dog ownership is hard... but if you can't fulfil her needs you should consider trying to find her a new home that can.

 

[deka]

Don't worry I get by, it's just draining with all the unexpected things that happened to me this year with my own health, big increase in workload and stress at work which weren't there when I got there I just need a little relax time.

I also am at my worst every year in winter and best in spring.

It's just her issues have come at the worst time of year, she may even be picking up on my own stress and it's making her so.

 

[Hed50]

Hello it almost seems that you have a dog that needs a lot of excercise and living in a flat is not ideal. Have you ever thought of taking her to doggy day care where she will get plenty of excercise with other dogs. If you feed her twice a day you will find she will not be hungry all the time. If you think about it you would be hungry if you only had one meal a day. Both my dogs sleep on the bed not under it, she seems to be very worried if she sleeps under the bed. What breed is she?

 

[Hed50]

Hello it almost seems that you have a dog that needs a lot of excercise and living in a flat is not ideal. Have you ever thought of taking her to doggy day care where she will get plenty of excercise with other dogs. If you feed her twice a day you will find she will not be hungry all the time. If you think about it you would be hungry if you only had one meal a day. Both my dogs sleep on the bed not under it, she seems to be very worried if she sleeps under the bed. What breed is she?

Sorry you did say she is a collie, they do need lots of excercise and stimulation a flat is not an idea place for her to live. If you keep changing her food she will never get used to one food. I feed a mixture of wet and dry food together twice a day. I also use probiotics and multivitamins. They also get a bone to chew on. ( not rawhide) as that is dangerous to dogs. It keeps them occupied as well. It seems like until you are able to move from your flat to a house with a nice size garden doggy day care might be the answer.

 

[deka]

I have decided to try and get some hoops for her to play with, she loves running and jumping so much I think it will be a great way to play with her with limited space, also noticed when I sit on floor she is more affectionate and at my relatives she sits beside them whilst with me I have a single armchair for myself and she sleeps on a 2 seater sofa, I sat next to her yesterday and I could see how relaxed she was, she laid back and put her paw on me, normally she sleeps on floor beside me or on sofa next to me. She maybe wanting me affection.

 

[deka]

As expected been at my parents for 3 days for Christmas, she got a lot of affection and didn't have a single accident though she did ask out a lot and they love her company so took her out very often even if it was twice in a hour, when she goes out into their large garden she is excited and runs around and then does her business then walks up to the door and if it's open she lets herself in, no running off or anything.

Sat on armchair and she jumps beside me and cuddles me or she sleeps in middle of floor in between me and my parents often looking at each of us.

She did get turkey each day whilst there though with a little dry food.

 

[JudyN]

I thimk that demonstrates very well what she actually needs, Deka. Now you just have to work out how to provide it.