Behaviour/ anxiety

[Dannielle Cannell]

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Hi I'm looking for some help with my rescue dog. I got her at approximately 6months to a year and have now had her 3 years. She has been neutered.
So when I first got blue she was very very nervous of all new people and would wee, cower and wrap her tail right under her when anyone new come into the house or touched her out of the house. She also would have the odd accident at night or when I was out. As time has gone on she isn't as nervous when people come in however does still wee with people coming into the house who are either new and she's not met them before or men who come in and try to give her a fuss to quickly.. She also still wees and poos on the odd occasions wether it be other night or while I'm out. She never toilets in the house when I'm home and when she is left it's never more than 4 hours. I have tried crating her but she would then wee or poo in her crate in her bed the right size crate for her not to big( I know they arnt ment to do this) I have tried the anxiety collars. I leave the radio on on, i have tried letting her sleep upstairs in with us but she wees and poos randomly as in weeks she's great and then she has a road of doing it every night again and we don't want her ruining the carpets so she is in the kitchen with her bed. Medically she is fine. Has anyone got any suggestions I can try to help with these bits of her behaviour I have been trying different stuff for years now and only seem to ever crack it temporarily I just would like it to be permant so she can sleep upstairs with us and be left with the run of the house without worrying ? Thanks in advance

 

[arealhuman]

Have you tried Adaptil? It comes is sprays or collars and is supposed to contain calming pheromones. I'm sure some other advice will follow

 

[ClaireEM1073]

Hi I'm looking for some help with my rescue dog. I got her at approximately 6months to a year and have now had her 3 years. She has been neutered.
So when I first got blue she was very very nervous of all new people and would wee, cower and wrap her tail right under her when anyone new come into the house or touched her out of the house. She also would have the odd accident at night or when I was out. As time has gone on she isn't as nervous when people come in however does still wee with people coming into the house who are either new and she's not met them before or men who come in and try to give her a fuss to quickly.. She also still wees and poos on the odd occasions wether it be other night or while I'm out. She never toilets in the house when I'm home and when she is left it's never more than 4 hours. I have tried crating her but she would then wee or poo in her crate in her bed the right size crate for her not to big( I know they arnt ment to do this) I have tried the anxiety collars. I leave the radio on on, i have tried letting her sleep upstairs in with us but she wees and poos randomly as in weeks she's great and then she has a road of doing it every night again and we don't want her ruining the carpets so she is in the kitchen with her bed. Medically she is fine. Has anyone got any suggestions I can try to help with these bits of her behaviour I have been trying different stuff for years now and only seem to ever crack it temporarily I just would like it to be permant so she can sleep upstairs with us and be left with the run of the house without worrying ? Thanks in advance

I didn't find Adaptil worked for my old dog and have used Pet Remedy. Same idea, plug in and you can get spray to put on a bandana or blanket too. What about music or radio when she is on her own? I'm guessing you've probably tried them, stuffed Kong's etc. Does she go to the toilet outside before she is left?

 

[ClaireEM1073]

I didn't find Adaptil worked for my old dog and have used Pet Remedy. Same idea, plug in and you can get spray to put on a bandana or blanket too. What about music or radio when she is on her own? I'm guessing you've probably tried them, stuffed Kong's etc. Does she go to the toilet outside before she is left?

Sorry I just noticed you've tried the radio.

 

[Walkiestime]

Get a good behaviourist ie Paul Daly K9 training Denton or ask vet. We are asking vet as my dog bite me yesterday for no reason !

 

[merlina]

Actually dogs don't bite 'for no reason'- it's just that we humans don't always pick up the signals the dogs is giving us.

 

[leashedForLife]

QUOTE, "Walkiestime:

Get a good behaviourist, (such as) Paul Daly (of) K9 training (in) Denton, UK, or ask (your) vet (to refer you).

We are asking (our own) vet (for a referral), as my dog bit me yesterday, for no reason!

END QUOTE _____________________
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I went to Mr Daly’s website, @Walkiestime , but I am deeply skeptical of his presumed skills & credentials; I couldn’t find any documentation of his membership, past or present, in a professional association which vets their applicants, as opposed to accepting their payment & enrolling them; nor did I see any record of his studies, academic or otherwise, that would qualify him to wear the label, behaviorist.

He certainly doesn’t understand the use of clickers or the concept of marker training, although he is happy enuf to criticize it as a poor tool.

QUOTE, from his July 2018 post, “the clicker” -

“If I use food to train my dog, won’t that mean the dog will only obey if he sees the treat?”
This seems to be one of the most frequent questions asked and rightly so as for many it is a worry. Many trainers argue that this only happens when the trainer makes a mistake.

The way to use food correctly is to reward after the dog has performed the behaviour. So, this all goes back to the timing of the reward and consistency which for the novice is always going to be hard.

At the end of the day, there are so many questions and so much information about clicker training, but it all comes down to is this really the worthwhile tool that so many claims it to be. Or is simply another version of Pavlov’s Bell.

I suppose having done the research and over the years of intimately using the Clicker what I have found is unless you are 100% consistent and commit yourself to use this little piece of plastic than “NO” it is not a worthwhile tool. And it certainly should not represent all that is positive training.

====== end quote ======
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Pavlov’s Bell was an associative marker, not a contingent one.
Marker training is contingent: did the dog do the behavior we want?... if yes, mark & reward. If no, no marker, no reward.


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further QUOTE, from his “Balance Trainer” article -
see The Balance Trainer - Canine Coaching
____________________________________

As a balance behaviourist that has now served over 25yrs in the industry I do not see there is any place in the industry for aversive techniques such as prong collars ect.

What we have now in the Behaviour and Training world is a serious misunderstanding of the terms or words we use not just the tools. Many are more interested in teaching owners to avoid what they believe is force-based training simply by the way it is described.

That said there are unfortunately many, many behaviourists that are still implementing various methods that are unacceptable.

What we need to remember, is just because a Behaviourist or Trainer talks about corrections, pack, dominance and pressure it does not put them in the same category. We cannot predict the effect of any technique on any dog, but there is no reason to use forced methods when balance based methods are obviously more successful.

___________ end quote ______
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Anybody who claims to be a trainer, yet who uses the terms “pack”, “dominance”, & “pressure” while giving training advice, is both seriously outdated & IME, ignorant of dogs’ actual social lives & their behaviors as a species.

Dogs 1st & foremost are not wolves - they don’t mate for the life of a partner; wolves do. Male dogs don’t stay with & feed their mates & their litters; male wolves do.
Young adult dogs don’t hang around to help rear their parents’ subsequent litters, until they decide to go walkabout & find a partner to start their own family; young wolves help rear an average of 2 or 3 litters of their younger siblings, b4 they split to seek a mate.

Even wolves do not achieve ‘leadership status’ via aggression, or by fighting - they become pack leaders simply by becoming parents. // A pack of wild wolves is nothing more nor less than a family, which might be a new pair, a pair & their pups of the year, or a 4 generation family with 2 sets of young adult / teen pups, plus this year’s pups, Mom & Dad, & maybe even an unmated uncle or aunt, a sibling of either parent’s, who has stayed around as a puppy minder & hunting helper. (Such helper adults usually only hang around to help with hunting & patrolling for litter #1, or maybe the 1st 2 litters, & then they split to find their own mates. A few stay on, unmated, until their own death or injury.)

Just as human parents do not control their children by escalating aggression, wolf parents do not assault their children - they are “pack leaders” b/c they are the adults, they’re the responsible parties who provide food, shelter, & teaching, to enable their pups to survive & thrive.

- terry

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[leashedForLife]

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Re the clicker, Mr Daly also said, QUOTE,

“... I am not a great fan... this little piece of plastic has, for some reason, become the go -to tool for many un-educated trainers. And there lies the problem, the clicker is merely a tool. And like many tools we use, (clickers) only work on a certain percentage of dogs.
The worth of the tool is only relevant to the knowledge of the user, you must know when and when not to use a tool. Just because it works for one dog, does not mean it is going to work for another.”
_____________________________
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Patronizing phrases such as, “this little piece of plastic...”, & dismissing trainers who use clickers as “uneducated”, is mere grandstanding.
Making oneself look bigger or better by making someone else look small, does nothing to convince me that U know what U are talking about; it only puts me on notice that U are both manipulating me, trying to convince me that clickers are junk & those who use them are unschooled, plus U’re attempting to win points, & get yer ego stroked.

Marker training, of which clickers are a subset, has not merely been used “on dogs” - it has been used with overwhelming success on species as diverse as amoebae, who don’t even have notochords, let alone complex brains, to captive cetaceans. Elephants, cattle, goats, sheep, cats, parrots, horses in dressage, humans in ballroom dancing, & children with autism, have all been successfully taught, using ‘that little piece of plastic’ in the shape of a hollow box, with a spring-steel tab under tension inside it.

That it may or may not work for Mr Daly or his clients is a separate issue from whether a clicker is an effective tool, since its user-friendly aspect is precisely why it is popular with trainers across an enormous spectrum of experience & skill sets.
Everybody from novices with a 1st pup, to seasoned professionals who compete nationally or internationally, CAN use a clicker or other marker - & “consistent” does not mean using a clicker to train every dog, or every species, or every behavior taught to any one dog.
“Consistent” in the definition that he incorrectly parses, refers to the SOUND of the marker - the ‘click!’ itself — as being consistent , that is, the sound is the same pitch, frequency, & duration, each time.

I can use a clicker solely to teach complex chains of behaviors, via shaping or the constantly improved approximation of the goal behavior, or I can use it only to capture spontaneous behaviors - something which is virtually impossible to do, using any other technique aside from marker training.
How else would U suggest I get a sneeze on cue?...

I don’t use a clicker or other marker “for everything“, nor for every dog & handler, but for some things, yes, it is both indispensable & highly effective. That’s both my opinion & my experience of more than 40 years, with multiple species, exotic, domestic, feral, & wild.

As just one example, I have taught puppies encountered on a bike-path to sit with a hand-signal in less than 5-minutes total time, using a clicker & pea-sized tidbits. These pups & their new owners were completely random strangers to me, yet a month or more later, THAT SAME PUPPY would instantly slow, wag furiously, & sit when s/he next saw me without hesitation.
Their befuddled owners might not even recognize me, but the pups did, & remembered their only lesson perfectly.

- terry

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