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Can pups just be pups

Discussion in 'General Dog Forum' started by Tinytom, Sep 17, 2020.

  1. Tinytom

    Tinytom Well-Known Member Registered

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    I have felt quite saddened by so many posts about pups after a week or so expecting a 9/12 week old pup to be trained and perfect. ..yes forums are a great place to ask and learn things from but Why arent people researching before they buy a pup .....
    Would you expect a human baby to be potty trained by 6/9 mths .....
    And getting a trainer in for a pup under 3 months old ...i dont get it ...why cant we let pups enjoy being pups ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  2. JudyN

    JudyN Moderator Moderator Registered

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    Hopefully a good trainer/behaviourist would be more about reassuring the owner that their pup is simply being a puppy, and teaching them the best way to respond to their unwanted behaviour - they're training the owner, not the pup. Of course, a very young pup won't be perfect, but you can still nudge them in the right direction by rewarding what you want them to do. And IMO there's no reason not to see if they can pick up a few words/hand signs, treating it as just one more game.

    I was clueless when Jasper arrived because he was absolutely nothing like the dogs we'd had when I was a child, and nothing like the puppy book I'd bought led me to expect.
     
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  3. lurcherman

    lurcherman Well-Known Member Registered

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    For me it was always finding that balance for pup and me, let the pup be a pup as tinytom as said but then chuck in some constructive light training, we have all at times has a biter and a chewer but hey it’s just how it is .
     
  4. Hemlock

    Hemlock Well-Known Member Registered

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    A good trainer can teach management skills to owners and provide assurance that this is normal, will improve, etc. Also is there to remind owners dogs don't speak human language and 'No' is just a sound they hear before fun stops.
     
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  5. Tinytom

    Tinytom Well-Known Member Registered

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    Trainers can be great ..but why not wait until the pup is at least 3/6mths old ...its the expectations some people have on a 9 /12 week old pup....
    Can we not relax more ...
     
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  6. Tinytom

    Tinytom Well-Known Member Registered

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    Puppy classes are great for pups as they learn so much from other dogs it socialises them and wears them out
     
  7. JudyN

    JudyN Moderator Moderator Registered

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    Some puppies do develop issues well before 6 months old. And when it comes to relentless puppy biting, or a large dog who jumps up and latches onto your arm leaving you covered in bruises, either simply out of overarousal or frustration, or who shows early signd of guarding, etc., you really want to start addressing it asap before it becomes a fixed pattern.

    And however many people tell you the pup is normal, you might find this hard to accept until someone actually sees the dog in the flesh. Plus the trainer can observe exactly how you're responding and point out subtle nuances that you could improve on (not tensing, not putting your hand on his head, etc.), as well as subtle nuances in the dog's body language that you may have missed.
     
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  8. Tinytom

    Tinytom Well-Known Member Registered

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    Research the breed of dog before you buy it to make sure that you can give that breed all that it needs mentally and physically.
     
  9. Finsky

    Finsky Well-Known Member Registered

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    Hmmm....totally agree and recently this has been on my mind many times and I've been wondering about it along the many other 'issues' in the world when having some quiet moments in home.
    I suspect lot of it is about 'sign of the times'. Internet can be blessing as a information source but there is always other side of the coin too. Too much information as well as setting 'trends' how we behave and are expected to think are not necessary that good.
    I think we more 'mature' generation we had to 'get on with it' in many different ways as to learn and get information you either had to rely to the people around you in person or make an effort and find relevant books in library or in magazines...it is not quite so instant way nor you get influenced by 'trends' in same way as over internet.
    I count myself to this more 'mature' crowd..and although my puppy venture has only happened recent years, I still started it just very basic set up...a old 'general' dog book, talking to the breeder and then relied mostly to my own experience with adult dogs and figuring rest out...oh yes, and remembering the times when I as older sister to much younger sibling I witnessed that little screaming human baby grow up. There so many comparisons with babies and puppies!
    I think mothers and pup owners have now lot of expectations (don't know why) that they feel or is being set to them..."to bring the youngsters up you need 'x-amount' of various plastic rammel...or you need to have done this and that by certain time...take them to class to learn certain skills/hobbies...etc etc" And lot of is not necessary, just a way of for some making money...sold services..'keeping up with Joneses' or to look outside that you are 'proper'.

    We have now important role to play...to be as guides to show/explain that there is no rush..

    There is good pups and babies brought up in much more humble situations...and still is...not much more as cardboard box and some cushioning as a bed...rest is down for just some food, love, understanding and good morals (yeah..bit more than that..) but that's still the basic recipe for a decent start ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  10. Linz1012

    Linz1012 Member Registered

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    People should do that anyway, so I don't see the connection between that and training (or not training) puppies from 91/2 weeks?
     
  11. Tinytom

    Tinytom Well-Known Member Registered

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    That's my point they dont research enough..this thread wasnt just about training
     
  12. Buddy1

    Buddy1 Active Member Registered

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    To continue your analogy with children, I suppose becoming a first-time dog owner is a bit like becoming a parent: no amount of background reading quite prepares you for the realities of it. And it’s one thing to read in your puppy book that (say) puppy biting is normal, but when you’ve got a little crocodile attached to your ankles rather than the adorable puppy that always seems to adorn the cover of the puppy training books, you might be tempted to come to a forum for further reassurance that this really is ‘normal’. Most puppy training books are great for providing background knowledge, but I wonder if some may be putting pressure on owners to think they need to achieve certain goals at certain times when, in reality, there will always be differences between breeds and even within breeds.

    I totally agree with you about researching the breed or cross-breed you are wanting to get. I think a lot of issues stem from a mis-match between dog and owner and a lack of understanding of breed traits. In an ideal world the breeder / rescue centre would have talked the owner through these before they purchased the dog and should be there to guide and reassure new owners through those first few months.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  13. Jan Woodhall

    Jan Woodhall Active Member Registered

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    \i am sooooooooo in agreement with this post! Leave them be! They deserve a babyhood! If you can't cope, DON'T get a dog!
     
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  14. JudyN

    JudyN Moderator Moderator Registered

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    Yet on a forum, we can't see the actual behaviour. With, for example, puppy biting and 'feisty' behaviour, we can say that it sounds perfectly normal... but there is a chance that it really is at the very far end of the range, and we can't tell. And the owner may be very worried that though we say it's normal, we don't know how bad it really is. We don't know that this puppy's biting is of the 'should be expected' level or at the most extreme end of the scale.

    And nothing prepares you for the impact of a new puppy that is more challenging than the average, however much you research. Particularly if you're prone to anxiety, this can be really difficult so you need support, reassurance, and ways to deal with the problem (e.g. making it clear that punishment won't help), not criticism for not researching. Particularly as the person may have met puppies of similar breeding before that have been very different.
     
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  15. EmmaLouise87

    EmmaLouise87 Member Registered

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    ok bit of a mean post. When I was getting a puppy I knew it would be hard work. Suppose like being a first time parent right? you can read all the books (which I did) but nothing can prepare you for when it happens I have found this forum to be overall useful and a place I can just vent a little, I am sadly only human.

    I love my pup and dont regret at all getting him but I am very worried I am not doing the right things. Sadly some dogs grow up with issues due to their upbringing. This is an important time in their life plus I live with my mum who has a very troubled shih-tzu. I really need help in reading the signs and make sure he doesnt pick up bad habits from him. I am no expert hence why I am getting one in to help me.

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion, fair enough but maybe I am just too stupid and worry too much. I feel like I have failed a lot in my life. I got my pup because I needed a fresh start and something positive in my life. Dont want to fail in his upbringing.
     
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  16. Tinytom

    Tinytom Well-Known Member Registered

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    This thread wasnt aimed at anyone or wasnt meant to be personal ....its good you ask for help i just wish more people would let their pups be pups and enjoy the time
     
  17. EmmaLouise87

    EmmaLouise87 Member Registered

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    Exactly this. Thank you Judy. Dont feel like such a monster now :)
     
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  18. EmmaLouise87

    EmmaLouise87 Member Registered

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    I know it wasnt personally aimed at me but the subject affects me. Just expressing my opinion too. I just want my lovely pup to grow into a happy balanced dog. As Judy said, I want to be trained not my puppy. :)
     
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  19. Flobo

    Flobo Well-Known Member Registered Partner

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    It is good to ask for advice, guidance or reassurance when you need it, as leaving a worry often makes it a bigger worry..plus you have your mums dog to think about too. Your pup is beautiful by the way!
    Some people with new pups do seem to expect a lot from them in a short space of time and seem not to realize just how much hard work they are, but then I also am of the old school, never read the books for new baby or pup, just kinda muddled through and worked it out, though I must admit the baby, now teenager, was much easier than any pup I had!!:D
     
  20. melb100

    melb100 Active Member Registered

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    For my part I was genuinely curious about how many cues it's appropriate to introduce at a time, with the explicit aim of wanting to check what is too much or unrealistic. This is in the context of playing games with hand signals and treats, it's not like it's dog borstol or somehow expecting a puppy to be perfect :D:D

    The downside of the internet is there is so much stuff out there saying you need to introduce X or Y either immediately or not giving a timeline at all. So I think a lot people who are worried they're not doing training "right" are the ones who in fact did a lot of research, maybe too much than was good for them.

    The upside of the internet is you can come on a place like this and check what the books/ websites say with people who've been there and done that. And if people do have unrealistic expectations, they can be quickly corrected!
     
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