Castration/neutering ???

[GraysonIG]

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WHY CASTRATE OR NEUTER UNLESS FOR MEDICAL REASONS!!!!

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So the irresponsible pet owners don't contribute to the over-population of unwanted cats or dogs.

And also so that the people with only financial goals (breeding strictly for profit) don't flood rescue groups with more unwanted dogs.

The view on altering animals is severly different across the water I see.

Kasia

 

[dawn]

WHY CASTRATE OR NEUTER UNLESS FOR MEDICAL REASONS!!!!

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So the irresponsible pet owners don't contribute to the over-population of unwanted cats or dogs.

And also so that the people with only financial goals (breeding strictly for profit) don't flood rescue groups with more unwanted dogs.

The view on altering animals is severly different across the water I see.

Kasia

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A responsible owner does not breed for the sake of it!

Just because the dog is entire does not mean it has to sire litters

We vet the potential owners of the puppies we sell VERY carefully and If there were any doubts about there reasons for wanting a whippet, they would definatley not be having one from us!

I have kept both dogs and bitches over the years and have NEVER had to have any of them speyed or neutered. My old dog lived to be 17 and the old girl 15, niether were the parents of any puppies.

 

[GraysonIG]

It's just very different over here, we can't possibly relate.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want the animals altered, and you can't understand why they should.

Let's just agree to dis-agree. :cheers:

Kasia

 

[»Tina«]

so would you all say I'm irresponsible for getting my yorkie done on monday even though it's not for medical reasons? :unsure: :unsure:

 

[GraysonIG]

so would you all say I'm irresponsible for getting my yorkie done on monday even though it's not for medical reasons?  :unsure:   :unsure:

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If you mean the yorkie getting altered, I think it's very responsible.

 

[Joanna]

It's just very different over here, we can't possibly relate.
I don't understand why you wouldn't want the animals altered, and you can't understand why they should.

Let's just agree to dis-agree.  :cheers:

Kasia

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Nicely put!

I don't understand why people get so cross about this subject. It is an individual decision, and will generally be undertaken after due consideration. Our Doberman bitch developed malignant mammary tumours as a result of not neutering. I bet she would have prefered a quick controlled operation than the treatment and pain she suffered........it was all taken out in the end.

The original qustion asked was about age.

IMHO, a year old is probably about right, but vets advise 6 months. With our boy, the problems of Houdini disappearing acts started at about this time

 

[dessie]

so would you all say I'm irresponsible for getting my yorkie done on monday even though it's not for medical reasons?  :unsure:   :unsure:

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I don't think responsible or irresponsible comes into it. The argument is necessary or unnecessary and I say unnecessary unless for health reasons. Why does anyone want to put an animal (or human come to that) under the risk of a general anaesthetic just for the sake of.

 

[lizzyb]

This can of worms has reared it head again . I keep both dogs and bitches and generally do not have any problems at home . I certainly wouldn't have a pup done at 8 weeks (w00t) or if it was not nessarsary, Having said that I do have a dog that had his bits removed. It was my choice purely for the dogs well being and after alot of sole serching, he was done at 3 yrs . If you have a happy healthy dog ..why fix it .

 

[Seraphina]

so would you all say I'm irresponsible for getting my yorkie done on monday even though it's not for medical reasons?  :unsure:   :unsure:

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I don't think responsible or irresponsible comes into it. The argument is necessary or unnecessary and I say unnecessary unless for health reasons. Why does anyone want to put an animal (or human come to that) under the risk of a general anaesthetic just for the sake of.

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I do not mind if people have their dogs desexed - as long as they acknowledge that they do it for their convenience. I just wish they would do it only when the animal is matured. But these operations are so much easier for vets to perfom, when the pups are tiny. I wonder if they all charge less for babies. They certainly emotianaly blackmail people to do it early. I instruct all my puppy buyers to wait until at least 9-10months, preferably 18 months.

Lida

 

[JAX]

I can see where GraysonIG is coming from ,

Im sure we`d all agree with her if we had a serious problem with our precious whippets being `puppyfarmed` to the extenet that IGs are in her country .

We wouldnt want `whippet rescue` chocker with badly reared , unheathly dogs would we .

But I still think 8 weeks is FAR too early , but if it needs to be done to stop that appalling puppy farming then it does , We dont realise just how lucky we, in the UK are, do we .

But going back to the original post . if you really MUST have your dog `mutilated `please let it MATURE first , PLEASE .

 

[JAX]

Would you make your husband go for the snip if he was admiring other females??????If so I dont think there would be many entire men in this country do you?????

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LOL :lol: :lol: :lol: If my OH STOPPED admiring other females Id be worried and think maybe he`d gone over to the `other side ` :lol: :thumbsup:

 

[GraysonIG]

Im sure we`d all agree with her if we had a serious problem with our precious whippets being `puppyfarmed` to the extenet that IGs are in her country .

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I just want to mention that we do not have this situation in my country, I'm in Canada. We are NOT like the US, bigger, better and more of them! :- "

But we have seen what has occured and is occuring in the US and are doing our best to not end up down the same path, so we take the same pre-cautions the responsible US breeders do now.

In the US for example there were over 2000 IG litters registered with the AKC, here in Canada with the Canadian Kennel Club; we had 1. Vast difference.

And that US # does not include the hundreds and hundreds of puppymill type operations that don't use registries. We don't have those in Canada, those that have tried have come to realize IG's are difficult to raise and sell, and have given up, and I've rescued those dogs from such operations.

Oh yes, there is research that shows large breeds should actually mature prior to altering, this is not the same for small breeds... now I don't know about medium breeds like Whippets.

:cheers:

Kasia

 

[Seraphina]

Im sure we`d all agree with her if we had a serious problem with our precious whippets being `puppyfarmed` to the extenet that IGs are in her country .

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And that US # does not include the hundreds and hundreds of puppymill type operations that don't use registries. We don't have those in Canada, those that have tried have come to realize IG's are difficult to raise and sell, and have given up, and I've rescued those dogs from such operations.

Oh yes, there is research that shows large breeds should actually mature prior to altering, this is not the same for small breeds... now I don't know about medium breeds like Whippets.

:cheers:

Kasia

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All living creatures will be affected by removal of their testicles or ovaries. Just ask women who take HRT after hysterectomy, why do they. The effect may be more subtle in some than others.

There should be another way to stop puppy mills. As far as i am concerned a dog is an companion animal and it should be illegal to breed them like cattle. But of-course, what politician (especially in the US) would be game enough to interfere with a business.

I do not understand why people buy puppies from these places. Don't they understand thy are only contributing to the problem?

Lida

 

[Tesa]

There should be another way to stop puppy mills.  As far as i am concerned a dog is an companion animal and it should be illegal to breed them like cattle.  But of-course, what politician  (especially in the US) would be game enough to interfere with a business.  I do not understand why people buy puppies from these places.  Don't they understand thy are only contributing to the problem?

How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time. We have to remove their customers. Educate the buyers. I would like to think that this has started to happen here in Oz and probably in NZ as well. I think television and the internet are playing a big part in educating the public and so to is the school animal visitation programme. But unfrotuantley just like eating an elephant it will take years. Don Burke is back on the television as of next week. He has done as much harm as he has done good. He has done some wonderful segments on the different breeds. I for one have whippets due to the story he ran. The best thing about his segments are they are run through the breed clubs and this is where buyers need to learn to look for their pups and dogs. The worst thing Don Burke has ever been responible IMO is promoting the Designer Breeds. Pets Paradise love them $800 a pup , why wouldn't they :angry: I am hoping they ban the sale of dogs from pet shops. Impulse buyers arrggh :rant:

I have noticed that the Livestock for Sale notices in the Melbourne paper is quite small these days. I would assume that the public are turning to the internet. Hopefully, and I do mean very hopefully buyers will be able to make better contact with clubs, be able to find responsible breeders and forums such as this one.

 

[Tesa]

How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time.

Meant to type " one bite at time"

 

[Macha]

1) They say that dogs should be castrated at around 6 months before they

develop any undesirable male behaviour.

I've had a few unneutered males and can't say I've had any great

problems with their behaviour. My first two male whippets were rather submissive dogs. For the most part my bitches have been the livelier characters. I had one bitch who was inclined to attack other bitches, and I have spoken with a few other dog-owners who have experienced similar problems with bitches. I now have a dog who was neutered at about the age of 7 months and he is the most dominant-type male dog I have ever kept.

This dog was about 14 months old when I got him. He hardly ever lifted

his leg and he didn't mark territory and I thought that was because

he'd been castrated. But over the next few months he started lifting

his leg and marking as frequently as any normal male dog. He wasn't

housebroken when I got him, but learned quickly and he doesn't mark

indoors - nor did any of my entire males.

I would have thought that castration would alter a male's behaviour,

but now I'm not convinced. I don't think my dog is interested in

bitches in heat, of course, but I did look up that k9 discussion about

neutered dogs mating and tying with bitches. My dog certainly has prominent bulbs, so presumably he could effect a tie if he wanted to.

2) It's only in recent years that we hear a lot about neutering males. I suspect a political agenda of sorts because it doesn't seem fair if females have to be neutered (a more difficult operation) and males don't. While show homes often seek bitches, pet homes tended to look for males. (they don't seek to add to the puppy population explosion!) The rescue societies have levelled the playing field by requiring all people who adopt to neuter their animals, so pet owners might as well adopt a bitch as a dog.

I have to say that when I've had unspayed bitches I sometimes opined

that it wouldn't be so difficult to keep a bitch in season if there

weren't so many dogs running about the place. I wasn't saying that the

pet owners should all castrate their males, but that they should keep

them under better control. A lot of pet owners in my neighbourhood just

open the door and let the dogs run about all day unsupervised.

3) As for the debates about neutering at earlier or later ages, I just looked up an interesting item at http://www.k9community.co.uk/forums/index....633entry45633

see Poeta's message of Dec 2003 warning of physical problems with dogs who are castrated at too early an age (that message includes some explanation of the physiologic growth mechanisms). I have read that this is particularly true of the very large breeds such as wolfhounds. The article Poeta quotes recommends not castrating before 14 months old. A similar article which I read suggested a year for small dogs and 18 months for larger breeds.

My lurcher, about 24 inches tall, is very well muscled and seems to be strong enough boned . He is a bit narrower in the chest than ideal, but I have no way of knowing whether this is due in his case to castration or to heredity.

 

[Lydia]

I just want to mention that we do not have this situation in my country, I'm in Canada. We are NOT like the US, bigger, better and more of them! :- "

But we have seen what has occured and is occuring in the US and are doing our best to not end up down the same path, so we take the same pre-cautions the responsible US breeders do now.

:cheers:

Kasia

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It does sound very like 'shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted',two things that spring to my mind is,very young puppies are being castrated before they are sexually mature enough to breed and add to unwanted/unplanned/puppy mill scene.The second is that the rescues re-homing these pups clearly do not trust the new owners to be responsible-so why are they even re-homing them in these homes ?.

Clearly there is a dire need for improvements/regulations with irresponsible puppy mills/farms or breeder's,but putting an 8 week pup through an un-necasary surgical procedure is imo very shamefull.

I don't know what the answer's are,in this country the majority of rescues succeeed to re-home puppies, that are either taken back to the rescue to be castrated at 6 months of age,or,under agreement castrated by the new owner's vet.

Ppl being pressured by charities/vet's to castrate does not appear to have altered the amount of un-wanted dogs in our country,and,I suspect it never will.It does not stop irresponsible ppl from breeding litters of puppies.

Something else that intrigues me is,are there lots of mature dogs around anywhere,either in the States or Canada or here,aged 10 yrs or older,that were surgically altered as young pups,for ppl to know fully how it does affect health,temperment and behaviour ?

Lyd

 

[GraysonIG]

Something else that intrigues me is,are there lots of mature dogs around anywhere,either in the States or Canada or here,aged 10 yrs or older,that were surgically altered as young pups,for ppl to know fully how it does affect health,temperment and behaviour ?Lyd

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Here in North America we have been altering and encouraging altering animals for years and years, this isn't a new thing here.

I know of loads and I mean loads of senior dogs (all breeds) that have been altered as young pups (6 mos and younger). No issues, none. We actually find the dogs left open (intact) are more prone to being tempermental as they have their sexual organs left intact. I myself have one male who is 4 years old and is a raging hormone case, he will be getting the snip shortly and I know within 2-4 months he will settle, all my others that have been altered have settled.

I do though have a neutered male who likes to breed and tie in heat bitches. Just cause the jewels are missing, doesn't mean he's not interested in the deed!

Kasia

PS. If you follow the vet link I posted above you will note that studies show puppies altered at 8-12 weeks of age actually do much better through the surgery and recover within hours as opposed to alterings that occur later in life.

 

[Lydia]

Yeah, ILKC was quite happy to confirm that pups recovered from the surgery much better than adult dogs do.

Maybe don't expect your 4 yr old to settle down as quickly as 2 - 4 months though,I've only ever had one male dog castrated,not for being hormonal though.I've always regretted having him castrated,and have not inflicted it onto any other male dogs.

At least we do all have a choice,and I am very glad that if the need arose,that any of my dogs or bitches needed to be castrated for medical reasons,the option is there for me.

I could never endorse or recomend anyone,to have pups castrated,in case.

Hopefully,I've managed to screen all of my puppy owner's,to be responsible owner's for the whole of the dog's natural life.

Lyd

 

[Macha]

I just want to mention that we do not have this situation in my country, I'm in Canada. We are NOT like the US, bigger, better and more of them! :- "

But we have seen what has occured and is occuring in the US and are doing our best to not end up down the same path, so we take the same pre-cautions the responsible US breeders do now.

:cheers:

Kasia

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It does sound very like 'shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted',two things that spring to my mind is,very young puppies are being castrated before they are sexually mature enough to breed and add to unwanted/unplanned/puppy mill scene.The second is that the rescues re-homing these pups clearly do not trust the new owners to be responsible-so why are they even re-homing them in these homes ?.

Clearly there is a dire need for improvements/regulations with irresponsible puppy mills/farms or breeder's,but putting an 8 week pup through an un-necasary surgical procedure is imo very shamefull.

I don't know what the answer's are,in this country the majority of rescues succeeed to re-home puppies, that are either taken back to the rescue to be castrated at 6 months of age,or,under agreement castrated by the new owner's vet.

Ppl being pressured by charities/vet's to castrate does not appear to have altered the amount of un-wanted dogs in our country,and,I suspect it never will.It does not stop irresponsible ppl from breeding litters of puppies.

Something else that intrigues me is,are there lots of mature dogs around anywhere,either in the States or Canada or here,aged 10 yrs or older,that were surgically altered as young pups,for ppl to know fully how it does affect health,temperment and behaviour ?

Lyd

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I recently noticed a rescue society notice about a home needed for a whippet late into his 10th year and as usual it was specified that the dog would be castrated before rehoming. I thought at that age they could leave well enough alone. Anyway, someone looking for a stud dog probably isn't going to approach a rescue centre about a 10-11 year old.