Champions Only ?

[*Mark*]

Join our free community today.

Connect with other like-minded dog lovers!

Login or Register

Another point with regards RCC's, which goes against my first point about RCCsand before anyone kicks off this is not aimed at any dog or owner or kennel it is just a thought, but if a Whippet has won many RCC's and only one or two CC's over its time as a show dog which could be around eight years under many different judges of the breed then would this suggest that the dog is of very nice quality but has not got that little extra quality to become a Champion. After all it is highly unlikely that it has been beaten to the CC by the same dog all its show life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

[SIZE=14pt]the breed record holder in whippets won something like 44 ccs or so. Spanning over maybe a few years. So it could be that during that time there were other whippets who may have been lucky enough on occassions to have won ccs, even some maybe gaining their titles? BUT how many others won maybe 1 or 2 ccs or even several rccs but never gained their actual title? just food for thought as in any breed like with Dobes once a dog amasses many ccs and is set for the breed record etc it is often near on impossible for other breed contestants to get passed it no matter how worthy they are.[/SIZE]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes Nutshell won many CC's all under different Judges.

44 CC's over how many years?

We have around 30+ CC's available each year she wasn't at every show. It took a few years for her to accumulate this number as it did with the Dog CC holder.

Yes she stopped some good bitches but that’s showing it doesn’t make it wrong.

 

[blackbox]

Another point with regards RCC's, which goes against my first point about RCCsand before anyone kicks off this is not aimed at any dog or owner or kennel it is just a thought, but if a Whippet has won many RCC's and only one or two CC's over its time as a show dog which could be around eight years under many different judges of the breed then would this suggest that the dog is of very nice quality but has not got that little extra quality to become a Champion. After all it is highly unlikely that it has been beaten to the CC by the same dog all its show life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

[SIZE=14pt]the breed record holder in whippets won something like 44 ccs or so. Spanning over maybe a few years. So it could be that during that time there were other whippets who may have been lucky enough on occassions to have won ccs, even some maybe gaining their titles? BUT how many others won maybe 1 or 2 ccs or even several rccs but never gained their actual title? just food for thought as in any breed like with Dobes once a dog amasses many ccs and is set for the breed record etc it is often near on impossible for other breed contestants to get passed it no matter how worthy they are.[/SIZE]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes Nutshell won many CC's all under different Judges.

44 CC's over how many years?

We have around 30+ CC's available each year she wasn't at every show. It took a few years for her to accumulate this number as it did with the Dog CC holder.

Yes she stopped some good bitches but that’s showing it doesn’t make it wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

[SIZE=14pt]yes thats showing and i dont beleive anyone is saying anything is wrong just discussing different ideas and opinions thats all[/SIZE]

 

[kris]

its really hard and must be frustrating to be campaigning a dog at a time when the breed record holder is taking ticket after ticket,i know cos i campaigned a dobermann when ch.sallates ferris was winning everything and ended up the breed record holder

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Crumbs your going back a little now, I know Ferris.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

you know him?is he still alive then?im showing my age now. :lol:

 

[vado]

I believe sincerely that the English championship is from all over the world the most noted and also one of the most difficult. I believe that the class of champions as in FCI it would remove merit to the title. The CC wins it the best dog, RCC wins it the second better dog. I am not English and I have not voted.

 

[maggie217]

Another point with regards RCC's, which goes against my first point about RCCsand before anyone kicks off this is not aimed at any dog or owner or kennel it is just a thought, but if a Whippet has won many RCC's and only one or two CC's over its time as a show dog which could be around eight years under many different judges of the breed then would this suggest that the dog is of very nice quality but has not got that little extra quality to become a Champion. After all it is highly unlikely that it has been beaten to the CC by the same dog all its show life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

But it could be one outstanding dog winning lots of CCs that DOES mean another dog getting many RCCs and being held back by that outstanding dog alone. In a different era the RCC winner may have been made up easily. This has happened in lots of breeds over the years.

Pauline

 

[*Mark*]

Another point with regards RCC's, which goes against my first point about RCCsand before anyone kicks off this is not aimed at any dog or owner or kennel it is just a thought, but if a Whippet has won many RCC's and only one or two CC's over its time as a show dog which could be around eight years under many different judges of the breed then would this suggest that the dog is of very nice quality but has not got that little extra quality to become a Champion. After all it is highly unlikely that it has been beaten to the CC by the same dog all its show life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

But it could be one outstanding dog winning lots of CCs that DOES mean another dog getting many RCCs and being held back by that outstanding dog alone. In a different era the RCC winner may have been made up easily. This has happened in lots of breeds over the years.

Pauline

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I hear what you are saying Pauline, yes a dog might get held up and not become a champion as quickly as it might in less competitive years. And yes in an era of a breed record holder this could result in a dog missing the chance to become a champion, but these breed record holding dogs don't come around that often in our breed.

It would be interesting to know what people think is too long when waiting to make a dog up?

Maybe Pasty or someone who has the records at hand could tell us how many champions in each sex have been made up over the last say 6,7 or 8 years.

I also said in one of my first posts that I tend to agree that the RCC should accumulate to a CC so I am not saying I am right, but if something was to change this would need to be supported with strong evidence, and I'm not sure we really have that.

 

[clardia]

Another point with regards RCC's, which goes against my first point about RCCsand before anyone kicks off this is not aimed at any dog or owner or kennel it is just a thought, but if a Whippet has won many RCC's and only one or two CC's over its time as a show dog which could be around eight years under many different judges of the breed then would this suggest that the dog is of very nice quality but has not got that little extra quality to become a Champion. After all it is highly unlikely that it has been beaten to the CC by the same dog all its show life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

[SIZE=14pt]the breed record holder in whippets won something like 44 ccs or so. Spanning over maybe a few years. So it could be that during that time there were other whippets who may have been lucky enough on occassions to have won ccs, even some maybe gaining their titles? BUT how many others won maybe 1 or 2 ccs or even several rccs but never gained their actual title? just food for thought as in any breed like with Dobes once a dog amasses many ccs and is set for the breed record etc it is often near on impossible for other breed contestants to get passed it no matter how worthy they are.[/SIZE]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes Nutshell won many CC's all under different Judges.

44 CC's over how many years?

We have around 30+ CC's available each year she wasn't at every show. It took a few years for her to accumulate this number as it did with the Dog CC holder.

Yes she stopped some good bitches but that’s showing it doesn’t make it wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I can remember being at one General Champ show where Nutshell and the then Top winning dog were being shown.

If I remember it Nutshell was thrown out of open bitch before the cut, and the then top winning dog Tilegreen Tornedo got reserve in open dog.

So only just shows that every dog has its day - and same can be said for the judge

I believe that every dog is there to be beaten - :thumbsup:

 

[patsy]

Now Mark, I will try my best, In a moment when I was very down I packed all my records away. Now being a pensioner the grey matter is dieing slightly.( no comments from you JAX )

the dog record was held for over twenty five years by Ch Robmaywin Stargazer of Allways and Ch Samarkands Greenbrae Tarragon they were both on 17 C.Cs.

The ones I am not clear on are Ch.Nimrodel Wanderer and his Son Ch WElstar Royal Mint, who both went on winning C.Cs from veteran and I think they did both hold the dog record for a time. The record was then taken by Ch. Tilegreen Tornado, but can not remember how many he got, and now the record holder, is Ch Khabaray Single Malt at Dumbriton owned by myself and Sue Ross, on 36 or 38 not sure. I am sure though if the great Pencloe Dutch gold had been shown on he would have been a strong contender.

In bitches, Ch Harque The Lark, Ch Dondelayo Roulette, then Ch Selinko Another Lady on 25 C.CsThen along came the lovely Ch Nutshell of Nevedith who broke all records with her groups and dog of the year all breeds,and she only wanted one point to win it for a second year but she did not take the breed, so it can happen. That said I don't think that her record will ever be beaten. So there you have the winners not many spanning forty years.

 

[Avalonia]

The record was then taken by Ch. Tilegreen Tornado, but can not remember how many he got, and now the record holder,  is Ch Khabaray Single Malt at Dumbriton

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Hi all, I am Canadian so not voting, but I remember admiring him as a youngster and I was at Bath when he won his third CC and was made up. Here is the info about Tilegreen Tornado you want straight from the horses mouth -- from a writeup of Maureen Blanks when she was judging at the East Anglia show last year:

In 1987, I had already acquired Tilegreen Tornado along with his litter sister a black brindle. I had seen the litter at 5 weeks and Tornado stood out, everything about him oozed quality, his make shape and coat. He won his first CC with BOB at 11 months, under Zena Thorn Andrews in 1988,his second came the following year under Shirley Rawlings, quickly followed by his crown at Bath under Sandra Marshall, before the age of two. He achieved, between 1989 and 1994 , 26 CC’s and also won 16 Res CCs including one at the age of 11.He was the Dog CC record holder until October 2001, when his record was beaten at the Midland Whippet Club Championship Show, but his great granddaughter, home bred Westmount Hazy Moon won her 1st CC. Tornado was laid to rest in August of 2002.

In the intervening years, his sons Westmount the Cyclone, Arlane Aranado at Westmount and grandson, Summersway Nu Venture at Westmount, all owned by me have won CC’s or Res CC’s. His daughters, granddaughters and great granddaughters, Westmount Clouded Moon, Westmount Eclipse of the Moon and Westmount Hazy Moon have all achieved well in the show ring and his great grandson Westmount Justin Thyme was best puppy dog at Bournemouth under Nena Runsten of Sweden, at 7 months of age.

Lanny Morry, excitedly counting down the hours till my plane leaves for England on Tuesday night!

 

[*Mark*]

Now Mark, I will try my best, In a moment when I was very down I packed all my records away. Now being a pensioner the grey matter is dieing slightly.( no comments from you JAX )  the dog record was held for over twenty five years by Ch Robmaywin Stargazer of Allways and Ch Samarkands Greenbrae Tarragon they were both on 17 C.Cs.

The ones I am not clear on are Ch.Nimrodel Wanderer and his Son Ch WElstar Royal Mint, who both went on winning C.Cs from veteran and I think they did both hold the dog record for a time. The record was then taken by Ch. Tilegreen Tornado, but can not remember how many he got, and now the record holder,  is Ch Khabaray Single Malt at Dumbriton owned by myself and Sue Ross, on 36 or 38 not sure. I am sure though if the great Pencloe Dutch gold had been shown on he would have been a strong contender.

  In bitches, Ch Harque The Lark, Ch Dondelayo Roulette, then Ch Selinko Another Lady on 25 C.CsThen along came the lovely Ch Nutshell of Nevedith who broke all records with her groups and dog of the year all breeds,and she only wanted one point to win it for a second year but she did not take the  breed, so it can happen. That said I don't think that her record will ever be beaten. So there you have the winners not many spanning forty years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Cheers Patsy, but I'm not going to let you off that easily, 8)

These are the breed record holders over the past 40ish years and excellent examples of the breed they were.

However, it would be interesting to know during the rein of these record holders how many others were made up, if you take Ch Khabaray Single Malt at Dumbriton as an example I'm sure others were made up into champions?

 

[moonlake]

Now Mark, I will try my best, In a moment when I was very down I packed all my records away. Now being a pensioner the grey matter is dieing slightly.( no comments from you JAX )  the dog record was held for over twenty five years by Ch Robmaywin Stargazer of Allways and Ch Samarkands Greenbrae Tarragon they were both on 17 C.Cs.

The ones I am not clear on are Ch.Nimrodel Wanderer and his Son Ch WElstar Royal Mint, who both went on winning C.Cs from veteran and I think they did both hold the dog record for a time. The record was then taken by Ch. Tilegreen Tornado, but can not remember how many he got, and now the record holder,  is Ch Khabaray Single Malt at Dumbriton owned by myself and Sue Ross, on 36 or 38 not sure. I am sure though if the great Pencloe Dutch gold had been shown on he would have been a strong contender.

  In bitches, Ch Harque The Lark, Ch Dondelayo Roulette, then Ch Selinko Another Lady on 25 C.CsThen along came the lovely Ch Nutshell of Nevedith who broke all records with her groups and dog of the year all breeds,and she only wanted one point to win it for a second year but she did not take the  breed, so it can happen. That said I don't think that her record will ever be beaten. So there you have the winners not many spanning forty years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Cheers Patsy, but I'm not going to let you off that easily, 8)

These are the breed record holders over the past 40ish years and excellent examples of the breed they were.

However, it would be interesting to know during the rein of these record holders how many others were made up, if you take Ch Khabaray Single Malt at Dumbriton as an example I'm sure others were made up into champions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Well, I was campaigning a dog at the same time as Single Malt, just a few months younger, and I was able to make him up - it took a little time, partly because Patsy is so hard to beat in the ring and partly because I continued to course him because that was what I had bred him to do and he tore a gracilis muscle when I ran him after failing to notice that he had pulled it in other "country pursuits". So if a hopeless handler like me can win with a dog that is bred to course, not show, I doubt that any good dogs were prevented from getting their titles.

Gay

 

[chelynnah]

Just a point on the actual poll. When I viewed the poll it says that I have already voted. I haven't actually. does this happen if you have made a comment but not voted?????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Viewing the poll without voting means you can't vote (it says null vote beside the option), so unfortunately if you viewed it before you voted your scuppered.

Wendy

 

[fable]

Speaking as someone who has only achieved a handful of minor placings at champ shows I have voted against a champions class. If I were ever in a position to have a serious contender for a C.C. I would like to feel it was the best of it's sex on the day -the equal of previous C.C. winners. I do think there is a case for a certain number of R.C.C.'s equalling a C.C. , although this may not be a good idea in less numerically strong breeds than the whippet.

Val

 

[meddling]

its really hard and must be frustrating to be campaigning a dog at a time when the breed record holder is taking ticket after ticket,i know cos i campaigned a dobermann when ch.sallates ferris was winning everything and ended up the breed record holder

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Crumbs your going back a little now, I know Ferris.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

you know him?is he still alive then?im showing my age now. :lol:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

He'd be in his early 30's by now if he was wouldn't he?!?

 

[meddling]

its really hard and must be frustrating to be campaigning a dog at a time when the breed record holder is taking ticket after ticket,i know cos i campaigned a dobermann when ch.sallates ferris was winning everything and ended up the breed record holder

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Crumbs your going back a little now, I know Ferris.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

you know him?is he still alive then?im showing my age now. :lol:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

He'd be in his early 30's by now if he was wouldn't he?!?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Just looked him up he would have been 23 in April, he was born in '85.

 

[Juley]

My view is that, although it would be harder to make up a Champion maybe, at the same time as a future record breaker. The title would be really well earned and how wonderful to do it against such great opposition.

 

[jok]

People seem to be commenting on why they don't want a champions class - i voted NO by the way.

However, it would be interesting to hear from those who have voted in favour (currently the majority of participants) - why do you want a champions class??

Looking forward to listening to some more points of view :thumbsup:

 

[*Mark*]

People seem to be commenting on why they don't want a champions class - i voted NO by the way.
However, it would be interesting to hear from those who have voted in favour (currently the majority of participants) - why do you want a champions class??

Looking forward to listening to some more points of view :thumbsup:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

you're right Jo and the voting is in favour of a change.

 

[patsy]

Now Mark, I will try my best, In a moment when I was very down I packed all my records away. Now being a pensioner the grey matter is dieing slightly.( no comments from you JAX )   the dog record was held for over twenty five years by Ch Robmaywin Stargazer of Allways and Ch Samarkands Greenbrae Tarragon they were both on 17 C.Cs.

The ones I am not clear on are Ch.Nimrodel Wanderer and his Son Ch WElstar Royal Mint, who both went on winning C.Cs from veteran and I think they did both hold the dog record for a time. The record was then taken by Ch. Tilegreen Tornado, but can not remember how many he got, and now the record holder,  is Ch Khabaray Single Malt at Dumbriton owned by myself and Sue Ross, on 36 or 38 not sure. I am sure though if the great Pencloe Dutch gold had been shown on he would have been a strong contender.

  In bitches, Ch Harque The Lark, Ch Dondelayo Roulette, then Ch Selinko Another Lady on 25 C.CsThen along came the lovely Ch Nutshell of Nevedith who broke all records with her groups and dog of the year all breeds,and she only wanted one point to win it for a second year but she did not take the  breed, so it can happen. That said I don't think that her record will ever be beaten. So there you have the winners not many spanning forty years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Cheers Patsy, but I'm not going to let you off that easily, 8)

These are the breed record holders over the past 40ish years and excellent examples of the breed they were.

However, it would be interesting to know during the rein of these record holders how many others were made up, if you take Ch Khabaray Single Malt at Dumbriton as an example I'm sure others were made up into champions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Well, I was campaigning a dog at the same time as Single Malt, just a few months younger, and I was able to make him up - it took a little time, partly because Patsy is so hard to beat in the ring and partly because I continued to course him because that was what I had bred him to do and he tore a gracilis muscle when I ran him after failing to notice that he had pulled it in other "country pursuits". So if a hopeless handler like me can win with a dog that is bred to course, not show, I doubt that any good dogs were prevented from getting their titles.

Gay

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Mark, that is a impossible task at least for me it would take hours, and I have just let my old books go to a good home, so have no chance of working back, sorry

 

[Juley]

I have seen the results published each year, ( I think Dawn posted them quite recently), of how many CC's individual dogs/bitches have won. There usually seems to be quite a long list so it seems that the tickets are not continually being won by the same dogs. Incidentally, how many tickets are available in Whippets each year?