Changes For The Better???

[deeva1]

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i certainly dont think add opens affect top ten opens unless in the same region.i know we have put add opens on when nothing on in our region but that as our members wanted as they wasnt traveling any way.what you all must remember is not all will travel but are these members going to be put off when theres less opens local are they going to think its worth starting up if dont get a race without traveling miles i think not.the people who travel will if they got there dogs right or money allows but certainly think youre not get many going to spend 50 pounds to run in a time trail jimo :thumbsup: :thumbsup: i certainly think new members is whats needed and i certainly think we getting local new racers with pups at our club which is only looking good for the sport so dont think we doing much wrong as we are :thumbsup: so all i know theres no quick fix unless you going to pay people fuel bills lol.and imo an add open is not much different to club racing but just they dont have to be members

:unsure: I have to agree Chris! No matter what the format OR whether points are at stake, there are racers, who, like me, are limited as to how much travelling they are able to do. This can mean lack of disposable income or poor health or in my case, both! I cannot see how, asking the regions to give up a top ten open and giving it to a club, in the same region, will achieve a better attendance. In each region there are still the same amount of racers who would attend whichever event they prefer and I doubt it would matter whether it was run by the regional B.W.R.A. or whichever club the event was given to. I feel very fortunate to live in a region that has three good clubs, that have regular good attendances and I feel sure that a lot of this is due to the fact that all three clubs vary their formats. At Old Hall we run different distances at yd/lb, 1/2yd/lb and 2ft/lb and at club racing, all are run to the A.B.C. fromat, thus giving every racer two runs and a decent chance of winning something. From what I've read, so far, the problem seems to be with certain regions not thriving and I fail to see how anything that we would do, in the East Midlands, could possibly effect what happens in another region. I think that we have to accept that there are fewer people coming into the sport and the only way forward is to attract new blood and encourage them to join the clubs that do survive,IMO :wub:

 

[ahorsnall]

i certainly dont think add opens affect top ten opens unless in the same region.i know we have put add opens on when nothing on in our region but that as our members wanted as they wasnt traveling any way.what you all must remember is not all will travel but are these members going to be put off when theres less opens local are they going to think its worth starting up if dont get a race without traveling miles i think not.the people who travel will if they got there dogs right or money allows but certainly think youre not get many going to spend 50 pounds to run in a time trail jimo :thumbsup: :thumbsup: i certainly think new members is whats needed and i certainly think we getting local new racers with pups at our club which is only looking good for the sport so dont think we doing much wrong as we are :thumbsup: so all i know theres no quick fix unless you going to pay people fuel bills lol.and imo an add open is not much different to club racing but just they dont have to be members

:unsure: I have to agree Chris! No matter what the format OR whether points are at stake, there are racers, who, like me, are limited as to how much travelling they are able to do. This can mean lack of disposable income or poor health or in my case, both! I cannot see how, asking the regions to give up a top ten open and giving it to a club, in the same region, will achieve a better attendance. In each region there are still the same amount of racers who would attend whichever event they prefer and I doubt it would matter whether it was run by the regional B.W.R.A. or whichever club the event was given to. I feel very fortunate to live in a region that has three good clubs, that have regular good attendances and I feel sure that a lot of this is due to the fact that all three clubs vary their formats. At Old Hall we run different distances at yd/lb, 1/2yd/lb and 2ft/lb and at club racing, all are run to the A.B.C. fromat, thus giving every racer two runs and a decent chance of winning something. From what I've read, so far, the problem seems to be with certain regions not thriving and I fail to see how anything that we would do, in the East Midlands, could possibly effect what happens in another region. I think that we have to accept that there are fewer people coming into the sport and the only way forward is to attract new blood and encourage them to join the clubs that do survive,IMO :wub:

:thumbsup:

 

[kipper fluke]

I think if there were at least four dogs in each heat rather than loads of solo.s --

who wants to travel for 2hours plus for a solo run???

it would make racing much more interesting --plus it would make time for two runs possible ---if required

try going back to half yard per lb --in two wieght groups 16lb ----24lb plus 25lb--32lb

plus pre entry is a bonus

this way the front dog is at best getting 4yds start off back dog -

even in final the most the front dog could get is eight yards off back dog --

more dogs per heat the better i think five if traps allow

just my thought' s

steve

 

[ahorsnall]

I think if there were at least four dogs in each heat rather than loads of solo.s --
who wants to travel for 2hours plus for a solo run???

it would make racing much more interesting --plus it would make time for two runs possible ---if required

try going back to half yard per lb --in two wieght groups 16lb ----24lb plus 25lb--32lb

plus pre entry is a bonus

this way the front dog is at best getting 4yds start off back dog -

even in final the most the front dog could get is eight yards off back dog --

more dogs per heat the better i think five if traps allow

just my thought' s

steve

i can see what u mean steve but if you had a 16lber would you travel to race against bigger dogs at half yard when they cant beat at a yard

i dont think its nothing to do with handicap thats wrong just not people choosing to travel for what ever reason.i know this is more a region problem as not enough members as we lucky in east midlands its not a problem at the moment

 

[sherry]

have to say i was very dissapointed when i travelled to shirebrook for one of the nnwrf races with my pup shes 29lb their pup classes 21/28 and 32lb and she still had a solo same @ puppy champs those classes 20/24/28 & 32lb theres just not that many pups around @ the mo i guess. i actually dont think we did too bad @ our last open @ wallsend end of sept brandy queen open and we got 50 dogs ( 8 of those time trial :thumbsup: 0) format 20/24/28/32 distance i think was 165yds ( not abcde not cons, not two runs etc) i understand what chris is saying if u live in the midlands like a lot of racers do u will get a bigger turn out @ your opens regardless if people travel or not. if u live in the north east or north yorks theres not as many dogs here so if people dont travel to our opens there may be a poorer turn out. so i guess what chris is saying is if people dont want to travel they wont regardless of format two runs abcde racing etc etc dont know if im right if chris is saying that like but its wot im saying now lol :thumbsup:

 

[ahorsnall]

have to say i was very dissapointed when i travelled to shirebrook for one of the nnwrf races with my pup shes 29lb their pup classes 21/28 and 32lb and she still had a solo same @ puppy champs those classes 20/24/28 & 32lb theres just not that many pups around @ the mo i guess. i actually dont think we did too bad @ our last open @ wallsend end of sept brandy queen open and we got 50 dogs ( 8 of those time trial :thumbsup: 0) format 20/24/28/32 distance i think was 165yds ( not abcde not cons, not two runs etc) i understand what chris is saying if u live in the midlands like a lot of racers do u will get a bigger turn out @ your opens regardless if people travel or not. if u live in the north east or north yorks theres not as many dogs here so if people dont travel to our opens there may be a poorer turn out. so i guess what chris is saying is if people dont want to travel they wont regardless of format two runs abcde racing etc etc dont know if im right if chris is saying that like but its wot im saying now lol :thumbsup:

spot on carole :thumbsup: jimo tho

 

[sherry]

have to say i was very dissapointed when i travelled to shirebrook for one of the nnwrf races with my pup shes 29lb their pup classes 21/28 and 32lb and she still had a solo same @ puppy champs those classes 20/24/28 & 32lb theres just not that many pups around @ the mo i guess. i actually dont think we did too bad @ our last open @ wallsend end of sept brandy queen open and we got 50 dogs ( 8 of those time trial :thumbsup: 0) format 20/24/28/32 distance i think was 165yds ( not abcde not cons, not two runs etc) i understand what chris is saying if u live in the midlands like a lot of racers do u will get a bigger turn out @ your opens regardless if people travel or not. if u live in the north east or north yorks theres not as many dogs here so if people dont travel to our opens there may be a poorer turn out. so i guess what chris is saying is if people dont want to travel they wont regardless of format two runs abcde racing etc etc dont know if im right if chris is saying that like but its wot im saying now lol :thumbsup:

spot on carole :thumbsup: jimo tho

ive just been thinking about this now. i know chris cornish etc is trying to entice people to race travel etc and anything is worth a try. but i remember saying 2 years ago when my health wasnt so good the most il travel is 3 hours, now this gets me to kirkaldy, east ayreshire, wallsend, dawdon, horden, aycliffe, stockton, north notts and derby. maltby and shirebrook. old hall took us 3 and half we went coz it was the puppy champs ive known it take us 4 to get there. i have done worsecter in day but thats 5 hours which imo is a tad too far for a days racing. so regardless of the format two runs even added prize money i wudnt go to worcs for a day and prob not old hall unless it was puppy champs or adult champs etc

 

[JOHNG]

1/2 yd/lb suits the bigger dogs yd/lb suits the littler dogs so imo 2ft/lb is a fairer system, but having said that it all depends on the distance that is raced i,e, 150.160.165,170yds :thumbsup:

 

[nova]

I could name quite a few of us in the East Midlands that traveled most weekends because we had dogs that were worth traveling with and stood a chance of winning, at the moment its not always the case plus the cost of fuel entry fee ect makes it an exspensive day out. So people have tended to stay local except for big events :thumbsup:

 

[mutley]

i dont think formats is a poblem the problem comes down to lack of people in the sport :wacko: but still say most folks who have a decent or half decent open class dog willl travel and chase points werever they can . i definatly wouldnt go to any abc or time trial unless it was at local club and that would only be for a look out wouldnt take much interest in it regarding my own dogs .atracting people into the sport is the answer imo.........

 

[bigjohnstudd]

just to many opens thats all.

if i traveled alone to last to opens it would have cost me £100 in fuel alone,so would i do that 4 or 5 times a month?

 

[stallion]

It's hard when you're trying to please everyone, making an open appealing to open class dogs (because lets face it we all want the best dogs at our opens) whilst still trying to attract club dogs.
I know a lot of people like ABCD racing because you're getting two runs for your money but it's still not a favourable format for your average club dog. Many of the ABCD opens i've seen have been run up to 24lb/ up to 32lb, if you had an average 24lb dog would you seriously put diesel in your van and travel a couple of hours to give an open class dog like Prada 5yd, Skoshi Tiger 4yd, Zeus 4, One's Genevieve 8yd? Yeh your dog might get to run with others of equal ability in the D Final, but you've still got to see the poor thing bust a gut trying to give chase in its heat. Likewise, with a 32lb club dog would you give Swift Boy 7yd, Eastender 6yd, Insane Jane 7yd?

I've seen dogs the top end of their weight class that've been schooled at clubs running ABCD racing that have ended up being spoilt and turning their head because they just get sick of chasing week in week out without any confidence boosting wins under their belt.

This is all only my opinion and the reason i will not be pushing for ABCD racing in our region. People are hellbent on running off weight for some reason and in that case i'd prefer to see a maiden section run alongside top ten opens although we all know the only fair way to include club dogs in handicap racing is for it to be run off time.

We have dogs that we just won't run at opens, it's not their fault they're not fast enough and i don't feel it fair on them getting beat by a distance all the time, it's not nice to watch and it messes with their head after a while, so we just stick to club racing them where they'll have their wins as much as the next dog. There is big support at our club for time racing as other people are in the same boat with their dogs.

There is a lot more varying formats coming about these days which is a welcome change and i admire any club putting opens on with a format that'll get every dog running off in a final, everyone who's won should feel that they're running off in the final with a chance of winning.

think your spot on vicky really think there could be a few things changed to get more people travelling think most of it boils down to seeing your dog have a fair run i think the puppy and yearling ages want looking at which could help we have a youngster just turned 12 months old and straights have finished she will be an adult when they start back up again and never had a race although been schooled i think weight classes should be brought down so dogs arnt giving too much away i think a few all scratch opens same as champs might go down well talking of scratch think its time the supreme was looked at 361b dog which could weigh 331b running in 361b taking dogs level break a no limit dog nearly twice its weight cant be fair i have said for sometime a maiden should run a long side an open what a lot dont seem to look at is that theres only about 8 dogs out of 60 that turn up to an open thats going to win it the rest are runners but without the rest theres no dogs think this is the biggest problem that needs looking at not everyone has a flying machine so with price of fuel then price of running your dog you could be looking at £50 to £80 or more on a day out at an open and you know what dogs are going to be in your class so people arnt travelling simples lol think its food for thought

 

[ROBDOG]

1/2 yd/lb suits the bigger dogs yd/lb suits the littler dogs so imo 2ft/lb is a fairer system, but having said that it all depends on the distance that is raced i,e, 150.160.165,170yds :thumbsup:

Totally agree with this john :thumbsup:

 

[stallion]

talking of abc racing its the only time you dont want your dog to win its heat lol daft but true think about it

 

[rodders]

It's hard when you're trying to please everyone, making an open appealing to open class dogs (because lets face it we all want the best dogs at our opens) whilst still trying to attract club dogs.
I know a lot of people like ABCD racing because you're getting two runs for your money but it's still not a favourable format for your average club dog. Many of the ABCD opens i've seen have been run up to 24lb/ up to 32lb, if you had an average 24lb dog would you seriously put diesel in your van and travel a couple of hours to give an open class dog like Prada 5yd, Skoshi Tiger 4yd, Zeus 4, One's Genevieve 8yd? Yeh your dog might get to run with others of equal ability in the D Final, but you've still got to see the poor thing bust a gut trying to give chase in its heat. Likewise, with a 32lb club dog would you give Swift Boy 7yd, Eastender 6yd, Insane Jane 7yd?

I've seen dogs the top end of their weight class that've been schooled at clubs running ABCD racing that have ended up being spoilt and turning their head because they just get sick of chasing week in week out without any confidence boosting wins under their belt.

This is all only my opinion and the reason i will not be pushing for ABCD racing in our region. People are hellbent on running off weight for some reason and in that case i'd prefer to see a maiden section run alongside top ten opens although we all know the only fair way to include club dogs in handicap racing is for it to be run off time.

We have dogs that we just won't run at opens, it's not their fault they're not fast enough and i don't feel it fair on them getting beat by a distance all the time, it's not nice to watch and it messes with their head after a while, so we just stick to club racing them where they'll have their wins as much as the next dog. There is big support at our club for time racing as other people are in the same boat with their dogs.

There is a lot more varying formats coming about these days which is a welcome change and i admire any club putting opens on with a format that'll get every dog running off in a final, everyone who's won should feel that they're running off in the final with a chance of winning.

think your spot on vicky really think there could be a few things changed to get more people travelling think most of it boils down to seeing your dog have a fair run i think the puppy and yearling ages want looking at which could help we have a youngster just turned 12 months old and straights have finished she will be an adult when they start back up again and never had a race although been schooled i think weight classes should be brought down so dogs arnt giving too much away i think a few all scratch opens same as champs might go down well talking of scratch think its time the supreme was looked at 361b dog which could weigh 331b running in 361b taking dogs level break a no limit dog nearly twice its weight cant be fair i have said for sometime a maiden should run a long side an open what a lot dont seem to look at is that theres only about 8 dogs out of 60 that turn up to an open thats going to win it the rest are runners but without the rest theres no dogs think this is the biggest problem that needs looking at not everyone has a flying machine so with price of fuel then price of running your dog you could be looking at £50 to £80 or more on a day out at an open and you know what dogs are going to be in your class so people arnt travelling simples lol think its food for thought

Think scratch opens is a great idea :thumbsup:

 

[sherry]

id just like to explain wot i mean about time trials. i dont for one minute mean have the entire open as a time trial wot i mean is do wot weve done @ wallsend have your open but hold a time trial alongside it 4 peoples CLUB dogs. 4 instance next year wherever we go we take all 7 dogs 3 of those r retired. 1 is ok 2 race in opens and wins odd heat, the pups i wont know about till next year but digga whizz my club dog will be there with me anyway but i wont race her against flying machines but shes there anyway so if there was a time trial alongside the open i wud enter her. it doesnt cost u any more to do this if anything u wud make money.even if u just got 4 dogs thats 4 dogs more than wot u wudve had. :thumbsup:

 

[rodders]

id just like to explain wot i mean about time trials. i dont for one minute mean have the entire open as a time trial wot i mean is do wot weve done @ wallsend have your open but hold a time trial alongside it 4 peoples CLUB dogs. 4 instance next year wherever we go we take all 7 dogs 3 of those r retired. 1 is ok 2 race in opens and wins odd heat, the pups i wont know about till next year but digga whizz my club dog will be there with me anyway but i wont race her against flying machines but shes there anyway so if there was a time trial alongside the open i wud enter her. it doesnt cost u any more to do this if anything u wud make money.even if u just got 4 dogs thats 4 dogs more than wot u wudve had. :thumbsup:

See where your coming from Carole,but if you have alot of dogs in time trial races,that could take ages cause you've got to time them in first.This plus an open with lets say 50 dogs,and think you would be pushed for time.Me and my mate (Marie) have just had a lengthy discussion on the phone (we do this quite often :lol: ) and Marie came up with what I think would be a brill idea :thumbsup: Yes the day has to cater for 2 lots of racing,so imagine it would be a full day :sweating: but hows about we have an open,for everybody to enter should they wish,but for those who think there dog hasn't got a chance in there weight class then they could enter the Maiden (Vicky :thumbsup: ) open.This could be run in 2lb weight classes off scratch (level break) no mucking about with moving traps for yardage to be given.That would only come into play for run offs,just the same as champs.Then should your dog win it's class on lets say three different occasions,then you can move on to open racing.Think this could do away with yearling racing altogether,and just run one lot of puppy racing on the day.Don't know what folk think ,but I think it's a great idea Marie :thumbsup:

 

[stallion]

id just like to explain wot i mean about time trials. i dont for one minute mean have the entire open as a time trial wot i mean is do wot weve done @ wallsend have your open but hold a time trial alongside it 4 peoples CLUB dogs. 4 instance next year wherever we go we take all 7 dogs 3 of those r retired. 1 is ok 2 race in opens and wins odd heat, the pups i wont know about till next year but digga whizz my club dog will be there with me anyway but i wont race her against flying machines but shes there anyway so if there was a time trial alongside the open i wud enter her. it doesnt cost u any more to do this if anything u wud make money.even if u just got 4 dogs thats 4 dogs more than wot u wudve had. :thumbsup:

can see where your coming from carol the only down side is like john said you need someone fair and honest on the clock and also your going to get little dogs running with dogs twice there size and weight if you find that the smaller dogs are doing better times than the bigger dog therefore small dogs giving them start don't think they would run only my way of thinking carol

 

[stallion]

id just like to explain wot i mean about time trials. i dont for one minute mean have the entire open as a time trial wot i mean is do wot weve done @ wallsend have your open but hold a time trial alongside it 4 peoples CLUB dogs. 4 instance next year wherever we go we take all 7 dogs 3 of those r retired. 1 is ok 2 race in opens and wins odd heat, the pups i wont know about till next year but digga whizz my club dog will be there with me anyway but i wont race her against flying machines but shes there anyway so if there was a time trial alongside the open i wud enter her. it doesnt cost u any more to do this if anything u wud make money.even if u just got 4 dogs thats 4 dogs more than wot u wudve had. :thumbsup:

See where your coming from Carole,but if you have alot of dogs in time trial races,that could take ages cause you've got to time them in first.This plus an open with lets say 50 dogs,and think you would be pushed for time.Me and my mate (Marie) have just had a lengthy discussion on the phone (we do this quite often :lol: ) and Marie came up with what I think would be a brill idea :thumbsup: Yes the day has to cater for 2 lots of racing,so imagine it would be a full day :sweating: but hows about we have an open,for everybody to enter should they wish,but for those who think there dog hasn't got a chance in there weight class then they could enter the Maiden (Vicky :thumbsup: ) open.This could be run in 2lb weight classes off scratch (level break) no mucking about with moving traps for yardage to be given.That would only come into play for run offs,just the same as champs.Then should your dog win it's class on lets say three different occasions,then you can move on to open racing.Think this could do away with yearling racing altogether,and just run one lot of puppy racing on the day.Don't know what folk think ,but I think it's a great idea Marie :thumbsup:

think youv got a good idea that could work karen only read it quick but sounds ok but dont forget a maiden is for a dog thats won nothing not for dogs to enter cos they might get beat in there class

 

[sherry]

not a bad idea there marie and karen. :thumbsup: