Changing Feeding for Blue

[JudyN]

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Having 2 large breed dogs and having fed raw for 20+ yrs my pups have been fed 2% of their body weight with no problems....
I always feed less or more as needed same as @excuseme ....

That's interesting - all the raw food calculators recommend over a kilo based on Blue's vital statistics... But they tend to be on commercial websites, so have a vested interest. It makes sense though, that a 20kg fast-growing puppy would eat more than a 20kg adult dog though?

Maybe as a halfway house you could start giving him 2 trays a day and monitor his weight and/or appetite.

 

[BlueBear]

That's interesting - all the raw food calculators recommend over a kilo based on Blue's vital statistics... But they tend to be on commercial websites, so have a vested interest. It makes sense though, that a 20kg fast-growing puppy would eat more than a 20kg adult dog though?

Maybe as a halfway house you could start giving him 2 trays a day and monitor his weight and/or appetite.

Good idea. We will try that he gets treats during the day as well

 

[Tinytom]

Some recommend 3% of pups body weight...I wonder if that is why there is alot of overweight dogs around ... we took our 2 in for their check up and the vet commented on how lovely it was to see pups that weren't overweight..yes he still calls them pups at 2yrs and 19 months

 

[JudyN]

Jasper needed around 2.5% plus a lot of treats and a few leftovers to maintain weight, so probably would have needed 3% without the extras. At 34kg he started looking like Skeletor, and at 36kg looked rather more solid, so I aimed for 35kg. They do all vary, so it's important to monitor them rather than to stick to what the calculators say.

 

[excuseme]

I am not able to find exact ingredients list for the "Purina Robust Puppy" kibble.
But just at a glance the "Proplan", ingredients in general are not very good or healthy.
Their products contain only very little meat content which itself is highly processed; Other products without any % amounts are, Rice,Dried poultry protein, (whatever that may be) ! Wheat, corn/maize, Wheat middlings, Digest ?!! (what's that ? ) Dried beet pulp, soya meal, Wheat gluten, Animal fats, what's in that ?, corn/maize protein meal.
Mostly all poor quality cheap fillers, with no health or food values for any dog or puppy.
I would suggest that if you want a nice and more nutritious kibble (as kibbles go ) that you should try adding and mixing "Millies Wolfheart" kibble. If you are mixing it with a raw diet, then you should be able to use their lowest protein choice "Forerunner" or "Alert" without any upsets or problems. Poo's remain firm as if on an all meat diet and with very little smell too.
A 12kg bag is £44.99 delivered.

.

 

[BlueBear]

I am not able to find exact ingredients list for the "Purina Robust Puppy" kibble.
But just at a glance the "Proplan", ingredients in general are not very good or healthy.
Their products contain only very little meat content which itself is highly processed; Other products without any % amounts are, Rice,Dried poultry protein, (whatever that may be) ! Wheat, corn/maize, Wheat middlings, Digest ?!! (what's that ? ) Dried beet pulp, soya meal, Wheat gluten, Animal fats, what's in that ?, corn/maize protein meal.
Mostly all poor quality cheap fillers, with no health or food values for any dog or puppy.
I would suggest that if you want a nice and more nutritious kibble (as kibbles go ) that you should try adding and mixing "Millies Wolfheart" kibble. If you are mixing it with a raw diet, then you should be able to use their lowest protein choice "Forerunner" or "Alert" without any upsets or problems. Poo's remain firm as if on an all meat diet and with very little smell too.
A 12kg bag is £44.99 delivered.

.

Thank you excuseme that's really helpful.

I'll get rid of the Purina and get the one you recommend. I bought a load of beef 80.10.10 raw from Primal Raw and I'll mix it with the Millies Forerunner or Alert.

Thanks again for your help

 

[Hemlock]

Should it be of interest, the "poultry protein" in some kibbles is feathers, beaks and feet. The feet would at least have some nutritional value, but not the rest.

 

[BlueBear]

Should it be of interest, the "poultry protein" in some kibbles is feathers, beaks and feet. The feet would at least have some nutritional value, but not the rest.

How can they sell that with feathers and beaks in ? That's disgusting

 

[Hemlock]

You'd be amazed how it was 40 years ago - quite usual for some manufacturers to collect euthanised animals from vets, full of drugs, and incorporate those in to "meat and meat derivatives". Some very brave and determined whistle-blowers put an end to that, but it was a common practice at one time.

 

[BlueBear]

My frozen raw beef arrived today for Blue. They are a 80.10.10 mix so have bone and offal in, so these should be OK right ? I have 34 of them in the spare freezer.

They are in 454g frozen sausage shaped packs so I intend to give 2/3 of one of these tomorrow morning and mix in a handful of some defrosted "mixed veg" that I got from Tesco. I double checked there are no onions, garlic, shallots in it, they link is below if you want to see what I bought. I didn't go for branded because veg is just veg right ?

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-...VBJhQBh3YtgmiEAQYASABEgIw3PD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

For lunch and dinner I'll just give him his usual kibble and he can have his usual treat during the day (a goats ear / rabbits ear or something like that). After 7 days I'll then switch to 100% raw with 2/3 of a 454g beef sausage and a handful of defrosted frozen veg for each of his 3 meals. That would be around 900g which is around 3% of his 28Kg weight. He will also have "kibble" type treats for training etc.

Would that be right please ? Sorry for the questions all the time, I just want to get this right and not make Blue poorly.

On a side note, a friend was telling me about "twisted gut" in giant breeds like Blue so I must not give him his dinners for about an hour after exercise and before exercise, he must wait about an hour after his dinner. Is this about right please ? Blue is an Old English / Saint Bernard crossbreed.

Thanks again and sorry for all the questions.

 

[JudyN]

Yes, that sounds good. Personally I might hold off from the veggies for a week or so. Then if his stomach has any trouble adapting, you'll be able to rule out them as a cause. It's often recommended that veggies are pureed as dogs can't digest cellulose - pureeing makes the nutrients more available to the dog.

Once Blue is happy on his raw diet, I'd look at introducing raw bones - given his size, possibly chicken carcasses. Larger bones are said to encourage the dog to chew the bone more rather than trying to swallow something like a chicken wing whole and choking.

The twisted gut your friend referred to is bloat, or gastric torsion. It tends to be more common in large, deep-chested dogs, and is a medical emergency. It's vital to know the signs of bloat, and if you think your dog may have it, take them to the vet's immediately (getting someone to ring the vet to warn them). I don't believe that there is conclusive evidence about the relationship between feeding time, exercise and bloat, but it is sensible too err on the safe side and avoid exercise for say, an hour before and an hour or two after, and also try to prevent their dog bolting their food.

You can read more about the symptoms of bloat here: Bloat in dogs | Blue Cross

 

[BlueBear]

Yes, that sounds good. Personally I might hold off from the veggies for a week or so. Then if his stomach has any trouble adapting, you'll be able to rule out them as a cause. It's often recommended that veggies are pureed as dogs can't digest cellulose - pureeing makes the nutrients more available to the dog.

Once Blue is happy on his raw diet, I'd look at introducing raw bones - given his size, possibly chicken carcasses. Larger bones are said to encourage the dog to chew the bone more rather than trying to swallow something like a chicken wing whole and choking.

The twisted gut your friend referred to is bloat, or gastric torsion. It tends to be more common in large, deep-chested dogs, and is a medical emergency. It's vital to know the signs of bloat, and if you think your dog may have it, take them to the vet's immediately (getting someone to ring the vet to warn them). I don't believe that there is conclusive evidence about the relationship between feeding time, exercise and bloat, but it is sensible too err on the safe side and avoid exercise for say, an hour before and an hour or two after, and also try to prevent their dog bolting their food.

You can read more about the symptoms of bloat here: Bloat in dogs | Blue Cross

Thanks Judy, I'll hold off the veg for now then. Great advice as usual, thank you !

 

[BlueBear]

Since we started Blue on a raw diet (500g in the morning, 500g at lunch and 200g Kibble for Dinner) we've noticed he has started scavenging more, often stealing food off the kitchen worktops and trying to get in the bin (he has a few times). Before he was getting about 600g kibble (Purina Robust Puppy) for the day, so I was wondering if he is actually hungry or he is just being naughty.

He is now 5 1/2 months and we are told he would reach the teenage years at 9 months, so I don't think it's that which explains his behaviour. He only started the scavenging and stealing as soon as we went on the raw diet. Blue weighs around 35Kg

Any ideas what could be going on here please ?

 

[excuseme]

I have used raw for over 40 years, I don't measure fixed amounts but they do get about 1/2 lb each per day, some a little more some a little less depending on their body condition. ours do scavenge and will find what seems to us absolute rubbish, very old and rotten. Their digestive systems tolerate all kinds of crap without any adverse effects, . ( I put this down to the good strong enzymes that they have after being on a raw diet for all of their lives ). AND of course they are all Spaniels !!
If you think that your chap is "hungry" and if his poo's are ok on the raw that you are now feeding him, try offering him some raw vegetable products to bulk his diet. As @JudyN has suggested you can puree his veg or just maybe chop them up nice and small to help fill the tummy. Vegetables are not essential for dog diets but our lot love them as extras.

Our dogs do not have to "fill" their tummies when fed and sometimes when on a raw diet they do not even look as if they have been fed, but they are fine and will be ok on this highly nutritious natural diet.

 

[Hemlock]

As well as the sensible advice already given - he COULD just be hungry, as he will be having growth spurts. You are a good owner for not overfeeding him, but how about trying a little more food and seeing what happens?

 

[BlueBear]

I have used raw for over 40 years, I don't measure fixed amounts but they do get about 1/2 lb each per day, some a little more some a little less depending on their body condition. ours do scavenge and will find what seems to us absolute rubbish, very old and rotten. Their digestive systems tolerate all kinds of crap without any adverse effects, . ( I put this down to the good strong enzymes that they have after being on a raw diet for all of their lives ). AND of course they are all Spaniels !!
If you think that your chap is "hungry" and if his poo's are ok on the raw that you are now feeding him, try offering him some raw vegetable products to bulk his diet. As @JudyN has suggested you can puree his veg or just maybe chop them up nice and small to help fill the tummy. Vegetables are not essential for dog diets but our lot love them as extras.

Our dogs do not have to "fill" their tummies when fed and sometimes when on a raw diet they do not even look as if they have been fed, but they are fine and will be ok on this highly nutritious natural diet.

Thank you, we will give him some veg mixed in with his raw and see if that helps. He does like green beans and carrots.

 

[BlueBear]

As well as the sensible advice already given - he COULD just be hungry, as he will be having growth spurts. You are a good owner for not overfeeding him, but how about trying a little more food and seeing what happens?

Thank you. We will give him some veg in his raw and see how it goes. Alternatively, could I mix some dry kibble in with the raw ?

 

[excuseme]

You could add some kibble as a mixer biscuit if you wish, the two mixed together are ok. However, I would suggest that you use a good quality kibble such as "Millies Wolfheart", this does mix well with the raw product.
I think that the raw meat and fresh vegetables would be worth a try while his tummy is getting used to the new raw product or as @Hemlock has suggested just add a little more of his normal food while he is growing and that his tummy is already getting used to.

 

[BlueBear]

You could add some kibble as a mixer biscuit if you wish, the two mixed together are ok. However, I would suggest that you use a good quality kibble such as "Millies Wolfheart", this does mix well with the raw product.
I think that the raw meat and fresh vegetables would be worth a try while his tummy is getting used to the new raw product or as @Hemlock has suggested just add a little more of his normal food while he is growing and that his tummy is already getting used to.

I've ordered 2 x 12Kg of Millies Wolfheart Lamb & Veg kibble. It was the one which seemed to have the most veg in. I'll switch the Purina stuff out with the Millies as soon as it arrives, hopefully on Friday.

Thank you

 

[JudyN]

Also, can I just add that I don't think of scavenging as 'naughty', whatever the underlying reason. Healthy dogs on a perfect diet can still be very food motivated, and scavenging is a very sensible evolutionary strategy.