Crate training - are we being manipulated?

[Zudecke1]

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So 4 days into puppy parenthood, we're not sure if our crate training + potty routines have been successful, or if the puppy is manipulating us!
Whilst it's true that every time puppy wakes us up in the night (every 2 hours, like clockwork), she does actually do a pee, given how small some of those pees are, we wonder if she's actually even way smarter than we gave her credit for, and instead, she's exploited a chink in the approach's armour?

Perhaps she whines every 2 hours, using those tiny little wees as excuses, to get some attention?

We know she can physically hold her bladder for longer as today she took a 4 hour midday snooze

What would you do?

She's an 8.5 week old Bichon / Toy Poodle

 

[JoanneF]

I honestly don't think a puppy of that age has the capacity to put all these things together as a strategy to get your attention.

I think it's more likely she wakes and wants your attention because she is alone in the dark (remember, it's only four days since she would have woken up surrounded by mum, littermates, warmth and familiar smells).

If she was mine, I'd still take her out for now because every toilet done outside is a step closer to her being toilet trained. She can hold longer while she is sleeping but you might recognise this yourself, if you wake and need to go to the loo, that's not going to get any less of a need once it's in your head.

 

[JudyN]

Don't think of it as manipulating you, any more than a human baby who cries in the night is manipulating their parents. I agree with JoanneF - you really want to focus on encouraging her to wee in the garden right now, and also on her feeling safe. Do make sure night-time garden visits are low key, though - no games, no exploring and sniffing (take her out on the lead if it helps), and don't go overboard with praise & rewards.

 

[Zudecke1]

I honestly don't think a puppy of that age has the capacity to put all these things together as a strategy to get your attention.

I think it's more likely she wakes and wants your attention because she is alone in the dark (remember, it's only four days since she would have woken up surrounded by mum, littermates, warmth and familiar smells).

If she was mine, I'd still take her out for now because every toilet done outside is a step closer to her being toilet trained. She can hold longer while she is sleeping but you might recognise this yourself, if you wake and need to go to the loo, that's not going to get any less of a need once it's in your head.

Don't think of it as manipulating you, any more than a human baby who cries in the night is manipulating their parents. I agree with JoanneF - you really want to focus on encouraging her to wee in the garden right now, and also on her feeling safe. Do make sure night-time garden visits are low key, though - no games, no exploring and sniffing (take her out on the lead if it helps), and don't go overboard with praise & rewards.

Thanks both, and I guess I was being a bit provocative in my topic title.

So I'm hearing that the positive thing is the potty "training" - in that it's a good thing that she's at least notifying us of her need to go and making the association with going outside.

Problem still stands though about settling her after.

Shall I continue to give her the 10 minutes of assisted relaxing time (I make sure that I don't do or encourage any over-excitement) after potty in the night, or place her back in her crate and try to ride-out the inevitable whining?

 

[JoanneF]

Comfort her if she needs it. If she is whining in her crate, she isn't happy and while it might not be the crate itself that's causing it (it might just be losing that contact with you) what you don't want is for her to start seeing the crate as a bad place.

 

[Feverfew]

Very good replies and good advice here. I would go a step further, and would not expect any puppy removed from her mum and siblings at such an early age to sleep alone for several hours overnight. She must be desperately bewildered at what has happened.
My advice is to take this puppy to sleep in your room (in your bed, if she requires that), or for you to sleep downstairs with her. Although people might think this creates a dependency, I can assure you from experience it really does not, in fact it has the opposite effect, as the young dog learns that she can depend on her human companions to protect her, and that is absolutely fundamental to a good relationship with a dog.
Good luck! She sounds like a smart little puppy , already doing incredibly well with toileting outside.

 

[JoanneF]

Although people might think this creates a dependency, I can assure you from experience it really does not,

Absolutely. Being with you makes them feel safe and secure, and that's what creates confidence in puppies because they learn there's nothing to be afraid of. So being close to you actually makes them become independent more quickly.

 

[CoCo2014]

A baby puppy(actually any dogs) don't do"manipulation"in the way humans do & no a puppy of this age whilst awake has very little capacity to hold pee.
Puppies of this age need to go out every couple of hours, after eating, on waking up & any time they show signs of going to toilet. I always teach my puppies a "wee" question & my current two, who are now 7 & 8 years old, respond to the question "Wee ?"by going to the back door