Crufts Qualification

[Gill Andrew]

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As each year the Crufts organisers seem to announce that it is yet another record entry, do you think that the show entry is getting too big since the qualification rules were relaxed a few years ago? Some breeds like Golden Retrievers will need to have 3 judges soon as they are over the maximum number of dogs per judge now and it probably wont be too long before this happens in whippets as well. Soon judging will have to start in some breeds before dawn in order to complete in time for the group.

Don't get me wrong - in the past I have been glad to get a qualification from a 2nd or 3rd so I am not knocking anyone who has qualified in this way - just to get a good placing at a championship show is hard enough in our breed

(For those of you who are comparatively new to the showing lark, the qualification used to be 1st only in minor pup, pup, junior, post grad, limit & open, CC,RCC or a stud book number)

Now I am going to duck!!!!

Gill

 

[Janetta]

Hi Gill,

How much are judges allowed to judge then?

Jenny

 

[Angela Bayley]

As each year the Crufts organisers seem to announce that it is yet another record entry, do you think that the show entry is getting too big since the qualification rules were relaxed a few years ago?  Some breeds like Golden Retrievers will need to have 3 judges soon as they are over the maximum number of dogs per judge now and it probably wont be too long before this happens in whippets as well.  Soon judging will have to start in some breeds before dawn in order to complete in time for the group.
Don't get me wrong - in the past I have been glad to get a qualification from a 2nd or 3rd so I am not knocking anyone who has qualified in this way - just to get a good placing at a championship show is hard enough in our breed

(For those of you who are comparatively new to the showing lark, the qualification used to be 1st only in minor pup, pup, junior, post grad, limit & open, CC,RCC or a stud book number)

Now I am going to duck!!!!

Gill

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hi

and how stringent are the checks for the racing/coursing classes??

non existant IMO

thanks for your post. Angela

 

[dolly]

the judges are allowed to judge 250 of one breed, if they are scheduled for others i think its only 200 !!

 

[JAX]

Yes, its so much easier to qualify , but of course the `extra ` dogs qualified mean extra £ s for the kennel Club :- "

Maybe they should have a separate judge to do the pups and juniors as they do abroad , but only when 200 of sex have been reached , what ring they would put them in goodness knows , But some breed are finished by lunchtime , which would men pups and juniors judged later , Now that would make things confusing :wacko:

Ive just been reading the Beagle `notes ` in Dog world , and the guy who writes the colomn is complaining about that fact that they will have upwards of 14 dogs per class (w00t) , and how many people will not get a placing , we`re lucky to get as low as 24 per class at Crufts . General champ shows we can get up to 30 per class as we know .

Some people dont know they are born with their low entries do they ,

Last year at our Ringcraft one woman proudly wore her first rosette . it was only looking at the results later that I noticed she was the only one in it !! :lol:

 

[~elizabeth~]

and how stringent are the checks for the racing/coursing classes??
non existant IMO

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Out of interest how do the dogs in the racing/coursing classes at crufts qualify for entry? I didn't think there were coursing/classes for whippets at Championship shows? please correct me if I'm wrong :unsure:

 

[quintessence]

and how stringent are the checks for the racing/coursing classes??
non existant IMO

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Out of interest how do the dogs in the racing/coursing classes at crufts qualify for entry? I didn't think there were coursing/classes for whippets at Championship shows? please correct me if I'm wrong :unsure:

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Taken from Crufts Schedule

Special Open Racing or Lure Coursing (Greyhounds and Whippets Only) For

Whippets which have won a race with a W.R.C. A. recognised club (Passports must be produced on the day), or which have won a course with a club affiliated to the N.W.C.C. (the name of the club must be given on the entry form), or which have won a lure course run with the Bristish Sighthound Field Association (dogs must be registered with the Kennel Club); and for Greyhounds which must be registered with the Kennel Club, and also registered with the N.G.R.C OR THE N.C.C.

I think I'm right in saying that all the gundog breeds have a class for working gundogs and there is a special section entirely for Gamekeepers' Classes.

Hope this helps

Jenny

 

[Smiffy@VeronnaV]

and how stringent are the checks for the racing/coursing classes??
non existant IMO

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Out of interest how do the dogs in the racing/coursing classes at crufts qualify for entry? I didn't think there were coursing/classes for whippets at Championship shows? please correct me if I'm wrong :unsure:

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Taken from Crufts Schedule

Special Open Racing or Lure Coursing (Greyhounds and Whippets Only) For

Whippets which have won a race with a W.R.C. A. recognised club (Passports must be produced on the day), or which have won a course with a club affiliated to the N.W.C.C. (the name of the club must be given on the entry form), or which have won a lure course run with the Bristish Sighthound Field Association (dogs must be registered with the Kennel Club); and for Greyhounds which must be registered with the Kennel Club, and also registered with the N.G.R.C OR THE N.C.C.

I think I'm right in saying that all the gundog breeds have a class for working gundogs and there is a special section entirely for Gamekeepers' Classes.

Hope this helps

Jenny

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You are quite correct, at present all any dog has to do to enter the class at Crufts is to win a race, any race at an accredited club. It is also true that the gundog trials are more formal in that they are run by the KC and titles awarded are thus recognised by the KC and may be shown on the formal KC pedigree. Our racing club champion title and coursing titles are not because the working gundog trials are judged by KC accredited judges, with all the paraphanalia associated with that, training courses for judges included. So in the racing/coursing class any titles won are 'informal' and are not shown on the KC pedigree. The knock on effect of this is that the criteria for entry to this groups at Crufts is different and means that racing bred whippets may compete at Crufts in the special racing class if their owners are minded to do so! Ditto for coursing bred dogs.

I see nothing wrong with different 'types' being shown, it is good for all of us to see what else is 'about'. Those of us with racing bred dogs know that we don't stand a cat in hells chance of winning the rosette as the judge is going to use the whippet standard to judge the dogs, and we all know that ours don't meet many of the points! I understand the rationale behind it, it is the show ring not the race track. (I can't understand why the perfect conformation of the show whippet doesn't make them faster on the track than the racing bred whippet!). It does stick in the craw though, to have a fast racing bred dog beaten in the ring by a dog which, on the track, would come in lengths behind!! I have seen WCRCs beaten in the ring by show dogs which would have barely exited the traps before the race had finished (not mine I hasten to add)! But such is Life. I digress, and only once has the steward asked me to produce the passport for the dog being shown!

 

[beaker]

so to enter the racing class at crufts a dog has to qualify at a champ show like everyone else AND win a race or course at a recognised club .....

that makes them the best dogs there IMO not that i'm biased of course :- " :lol:

 

[~elizabeth~]

so to enter the racing class at crufts a dog has to qualify at a champ show like everyone else AND win a race or course at a recognised club .....

Exactly my point. How many running-type dogs are ever entered in these classes, let alone get placed ? In reality is it not just another class for show dogs to enter if they've dabbled in a bit of lurecoursing? (I know there are a couple of notable exeptions for individuals who actively live course and show).

What is the point of having special running dog classes at Crufts, if winning a class at the only show to have a specialist judge for racing and coursing dogs ( the Whippet Club Open show?) can't qualify whippets from lines that excel at what the whippets have historically been bred for ?

 

[dessie]

Firstly, excuse if I'm wrong, but I thought live coursing had actually been made illegal, so how dogs can still be winning courses to qualify for Crufts is a bit beyond me.

Secondly, the dog judge this year at Crufts has actively coursed her dogs in the past so I think she is fairly well qualified to judge whatever comes in front of her.

And horror of horrors I have entered one of my show-bred dogs, who dabbles in lure coursing, in this class because

1. He is Crufts qualified for life

2. He is qualified under BSFA rules

3. It is a dog show and it's what he does!!!

 

[~elizabeth~]

Firstly, excuse if I'm wrong, but I thought live coursing had actually been made illegal, so how dogs can still be winning courses to qualify for Crufts is a bit beyond me.
Secondly, the dog judge this year at Crufts has actively coursed her dogs in the past so I think she is fairly well qualified to judge whatever comes in front of her.

And horror of horrors I have entered one of my show-bred dogs, who dabbles in lure coursing, in this class because

1.  He is Crufts qualified for life

2.  He is qualified under BSFA rules

3.  It is a dog show and it's what he does!!!

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Dessie, my remarks weren't aimed at you :- "

As I recall the qualification for COURSING classes at the whippet Club Show is a win at a recognised coursing event within 18 months of that competition (ie Jan 2007), thus allowing dogs that have live coursed to qualify post ban, which is what I was referring to. Presumably this will not be the case next year, and these classes will have to be dropped?

Re. dabbling in lurecoursng I am thinking of one individual who was placed in a racing/coursing class at Crufts last year who has certainly never won a class at BSFA.

Surely the point of these special classes is to judge whippets entered purely on their conformation for sporting activities; how can it mean anything to be placed in these classes (regardless of breeding or type) if many dogs with excellent conformation for this purpose are simply never entered? :wacko:

 

[dessie]

Firstly, excuse if I'm wrong, but I thought live coursing had actually been made illegal, so how dogs can still be winning courses to qualify for Crufts is a bit beyond me.
Secondly, the dog judge this year at Crufts has actively coursed her dogs in the past so I think she is fairly well qualified to judge whatever comes in front of her.

And horror of horrors I have entered one of my show-bred dogs, who dabbles in lure coursing, in this class because

1.  He is Crufts qualified for life

2.  He is qualified under BSFA rules

3.  It is a dog show and it's what he does!!!

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Dessie, my remarks weren't aimed at you :- "

As I recall the qualification for COURSING classes at the whippet Club Show is a win at a recognised coursing event within 18 months of that competition (ie Jan 2007), thus allowing dogs that have live coursed to qualify post ban, which is what I was referring to. Presumably this will not be the case next year, and these classes will have to be dropped?

Surely the point of these special classes is to judge whippets entered purely on their conformation for sporting activities; how can it mean anything to be placed in these classes (regardless of breeding or type) if many dogs with excellent conformation for this purpose are simply never entered? :wacko:

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But these 'special' classes are not qualifiers for Crufts anyway, they seem only to be put on at some shows to keep those who race/(used to) course their dogs sweet. They are a nonsense really, like the 'height' class or classes for 'blacks & blues', they are almost novelty classes. Just lately, I have entered Rupert in the LC course, if I know Sid is entered at the same show not necessarily because I desperately want to go in that class but because it maximises both our chances of winning (or not as the case may be!!! LOL!)

Dogs are judged on their conformation/movement (well, sometimes) against the breed standard, irrespective of whether their owner shows, races, courses or does doodly squit with them and, therefore, each class should be judged the same IMO.

 

[beaker]

oi oi oi ! don't pick on the ''black/blue'' class

poor Otty would never win owt if it wasn't for them :lol:

 

[quintessence]

In the good old days when the world was black and white and I was a child they used to have a litter class. Can you imagine carting a litter of puppies off to Crufts?

Jenny

 

[dessie]

oi oi oi ! don't pick on the ''black/blue'' class 
poor Otty would never win owt if it wasn't for them  :lol:

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Just using it as an example, I have blacks and blues as well and when MWC used to put on classes I have entered them but only as a 2nd entry (I seem to remember them having stripey classes at one time too). The one class I would NEVER enter on principle (and it is not because my Whippets are too tall) is the 'height' class. I really do not agree with that. Next we will be having 'correct ears' or 'a leg at each corner' classes

 

[starswift]

Next we will be having 'correct ears' or 'a leg at each corner' classes

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THAT IS JUST US OWNERS LOL (w00t)

 

[~elizabeth~]

But these 'special' classes are not qualifiers for Crufts anyway, they seem only to be put on at some shows to keep those who race/(used to) course their dogs sweet.  They are a nonsense really...

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But aren't the racing/coursing classes at Crufts equally a nonsense by the same criteria, they are just a novely class for show dogs in effect ? :blink: I'm just curious about these classes, I think a lot of people are quite confused about how dogs actually qualify for entry at the different types/levels of show (someone else asked a question about it recently). They are obviously not taken very seriously either, as the results aren't always included or critiques even published. :unsure:

 

[dessie]

But these 'special' classes are not qualifiers for Crufts anyway, they seem only to be put on at some shows to keep those who race/(used to) course their dogs sweet.  They are a nonsense really...

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But aren't the racing/coursing classes at Crufts equally a nonsense by the same criteria, they are just a novely class for show dogs in effect ? :blink:

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YES!!!

 

[Angela Bayley]

Firstly, excuse if I'm wrong, but I thought live coursing had actually been made illegal, so how dogs can still be winning courses to qualify for Crufts is a bit beyond me.

Are you entirely happy with this state of affairs? In which case I have to ask: why do you choose to have hounds?