Defining A Whippet

[AlbertJ]

Join our free community today.

Connect with other like-minded dog lovers!

Login or Register

There has been a bit of controversy over the winning 'whippet' in the racing at Shanes Castle. As we made it clear when this was raised a few weeks before the show for 2011 we were not going to have the whippet racing KC registered whippets only. This would have been changing the rules too close to the event and disadavantaged non KC registered whippets who had been conditioning them for the event.

Because of this Matt, and even the whole fair and organising team have been subjected to anonymous abusive criticism. This of course would probably not have happened if this particular dog had been beaten by those owned by the critics.

Anyone with any sense must realise that Matt or any other racing organisers cannot argue the toss with someone who says his or her dog is a whippet. Size solely doesn't really come into it and in fact may not be any advantage - look at Rose Mc Coy's small dog and China too is no giant.

As far as I can see there are three solutions:

1. If challenged, at the show - not anonymously and on these forums - the owner should be prepared to meet the challenge by saying how he or she thinks it is a whippet. And in fact I would like to hear this from the owner of the Shanes winner.

2. If he or she has no proof that the dog is a whippet then the Sporting Whippet Club could arbitrate for future eligibility. At one time the KC used to have a classification for interbred retrievers and in fact in my own breed the golden retriever one of the golden winners of the retriever championship was a dog that had labrador ancestry two generations back.

Other dogs of unknown parentage were brought into a pedigree by three senior judges making a ruling that the dog was of that particular breed. Something similar could apply so that good working whippets without pedigrees could be deemed eligible.

3. OR we can simply run races for KC registered whippets only and Non Ped whippets.

Whatever way we go forward and I think the decision is really that for the majority of whippet owners we will take into acount reasonable constructive ideas and discussion. As I said before that is the way forward -anonymous personal abuse is not!

Albertj

 

[naylorwhippets]

I think the only way to go Albert is by no 3. A class for the KC Whippets & one for the Non Peds.

KC whippets cannot compete against the likes of John's brilliant dog China :thumbsup:

 

[jockh]

There has been a bit of controversy over the winning 'whippet' in the racing at Shanes Castle. As we made it clear when this was raised a few weeks before the show for 2011 we were not going to have the whippet racing KC registered whippets only. This would have been changing the rules too close to the event and disadavantaged non KC registered whippets who had been conditioning them for the event.
Because of this Matt, and even the whole fair and organising team have been subjected to anonymous abusive criticism. This of course would probably not have happened if this particular dog had been beaten by those owned by the critics.

Anyone with any sense must realise that Matt or any other racing organisers cannot argue the toss with someone who says his or her dog is a whippet. Size solely doesn't really come into it and in fact may not be any advantage - look at Rose Mc Coy's small dog and China too is no giant.

As far as I can see there are three solutions:

1. If challenged, at the show - not anonymously and on these forums - the owner should be prepared to meet the challenge by saying how he or she thinks it is a whippet. And in fact I would like to hear this from the owner of the Shanes winner.

2. If he or she has no proof that the dog is a whippet then the Sporting Whippet Club could arbitrate for future eligibility. At one time the KC used to have a classification for interbred retrievers and in fact in my own breed the golden retriever one of the golden winners of the retriever championship was a dog that had labrador ancestry two generations back.

Other dogs of unknown parentage were brought into a pedigree by three senior judges making a ruling that the dog was of that particular breed. Something similar could apply so that good working whippets without pedigrees could be deemed eligible.

3. OR we can simply run races for KC registered whippets only and Non Ped whippets.

Whatever way we go forward and I think the decision is really that for the majority of whippet owners we will take into acount reasonable constructive ideas and discussion. As I said before that is the way forward -anonymous personal abuse is not!

Albertj

 

[TTT]

I think the only way to go Albert is by no 3. A class for the KC Whippets & one for the Non Peds.
KC whippets cannot compete against the likes of John's brilliant dog China :thumbsup:

This might work ok.

BUT

Could a non-ped whippet or 'whippet type' also be described as a small lurcher to race in that group?

Might unscrupulous people determined to win in the kc whippet class at any cost produce 'papers' not relevant to their dog? Who would challenge/officiate on whether the dog could run as a kc whippet on the day?

OR

People who are determined only to compete against kc dogs could opt to race at official kc clubs where non-kc dogs are not allowed to have a run?

 

[Macha]

it's not like there are huge stakes or anything. If there was an under 21 in. class for nonpeds, people with whippet crosses should be happy enough to enter that. You can understand they don't want to enter a 19 in the under 23 inch races

 

[Derekrfc]

I think that the only way forward is Option No 3 if you do infact advertise it as whippet race class, if you say lurcher class then you leave it open for any crossbred working dog which can HJKC.

As diane has said " NO " Kc reg whippet can compete against non - pedigree whippets even 18lb non - ped whippets could beat a racing bred 32lb Kc reg whippet.

And if you are serious about making it Kc only then you have to copy the Passport system in place in whippet racing over here where all the Markings and colours are seen in photo's of the dog and there parentage can also be traced.

I am sorry but only in my opinion you cannot look at a pedigree of a dog and see anything other than that pure bred lineage if there is any other breed, as you mentioned, labrador in a Golden Retriever pedigree then that is " NOT " a pure and true Pedigree.

Only my opinion of course hope you can settle all the arguing and go on to better things.

Derek Thomson.... :thumbsup:

 

[Martin Tucker]

Deirdras Paris and my Ernie, could have both entered`the `Whippet` event at Shanes Castle, but we both chose not to. Even at 6 1/2 I know Ernie would most probably `stuff` the winner if he is a genuine Ped. That is the difference between the two breeds.

I think the problem is there arn`t enough Whippets of each type for racing. Until there is non-ped racing and I don`t mean Under 23`Lurcher Racing and sufficient numbers out there then there will always be problems.

Take for example Ernie, just under 23` but only weighs 30-31lbs. Put him against a 42lb 23`lurcher and he`s beat a distance, as has often happened him.

The same happens when he races against a KC Whippet, he wins a distance.

My suggestion.

1. KC Whippets (with papers-no papers in with the non-peds)

2. Non-peds 32lbs and under.

3. Everything else in the Under 23`Class

In forming a club, If the peds and non-peds didn`t have enough runners, over a distance of 150 yards id give the peds 15 yards of a head start, and then you would have close finishes.

This could be adjusted to make for great racing and everyone`s in with a chance.

Just a thought, now where`s my `hard hat`!!!!

 

[dazgail]

Deirdras Paris and my Ernie, could have both entered`the `Whippet` event at Shanes Castle, but we both chose not to. Even at 6 1/2 I know Ernie would most probably `stuff` the winner if he is a genuine Ped. That is the difference between the two breeds.
I think the problem is there arn`t enough Whippets of each type for racing. Until there is non-ped racing and I don`t mean Under 23`Lurcher Racing and sufficient numbers out there then there will always be problems.

Take for example Ernie, just under 23` but only weighs 30-31lbs. Put him against a 42lb 23`lurcher and he`s beat a distance, as has often happened him.

The same happens when he races against a KC Whippet, he wins a distance.

My suggestion.

1. KC Whippets (with papers-no papers in with the non-peds)

2. Non-peds 32lbs and under.

3. Everything else in the Under 23`Class

In forming a club, If the peds and non-peds didn`t have enough runners, over a distance of 150 yards id give the peds 15 yards of a head start, and then you would have close finishes.

This could be adjusted to make for great racing and everyone`s in with a chance.

Just a thought, now where`s my `hard hat`!!!!

Got to take our hats off to Martin and Deidre for not entering Ernie and Paris into the whippet class, Zola looks like she too may have been have entered with the whippets based on some of the dogs that ran in the whippet class.

Are we going to see the day when a racing club is formed that will cater for all the dogs? The quantity and quality of dogs is getting there.

 

[Bluebell]

Paris is about 19" & weighs 27lbs, she is 4 this month...Roses Zola is 20" & weighs 30lbs...

 

[wild whippies]

As far as I'm concerned, I rate a dog based on the competition it runs against.

Time and time again people complain about purpose bred racing dogs being run at lurcher shows and I can't say I blame them. I started out with a show bred pedigree whippet with no KC papers. I couldn't run at the Pedigree racing whippet club and got told to go and run with non-peds!!!

Now I would hope people can see why this is ridiculous but I would also hope that you can see that dogs such as my first whippet are the very dogs a 'whippet' class at a lurcher event should be trying to accomodate. Because the vast majority of entries for a whippet race at a lurcher show probably are those dogs that are not registered for racing or have no KC registration. :wacko:

However when you host a lurcher race where the format is a straight sprint, don't be surprised if the winning dog is racing bred, especially if there is much to gain from winning e.g. significant prize money. Such formats certainly do nothing to accomodate a working whippet or lurcher and maybe organisers need to think about this rather than finding methods to refuse entry to what may well be a genuine working whippet.

Thankfully, the people involved in running my local non-ped club had enough experience to know exactly what type of dog they was being presented with and ran her in timed handicaps where every week my dog had the same opportunity to win as all the other dogs in her race. :thumbsup: What I'm saying is there are possible solutions.....

One is to host events on ground that is unsuitable for racing dogs capable of running high speeds, possibly in conjunction with hurdles, a longer distance or alternatively, run lure coursing events.

The problem with the above is that some will run their racing bred dog in such events, pick up injuries then spend the rest of their lives complaining about the poor ground. (probably on here!) :teehee:

Another option is to run time handicaps or A,B,C,D,E racing. Organisers could time all dogs in on a solo run then dogs of similar timing are grouped together to race OR groups of dogs are run and 1st goes into group A, 2nd Group B etc with an A, B, C, etc final run. I would deliberately award a winner of an A final the same standard of prize as all the other final winners if the format was a straight sprint.

The problem is organising grading may be a bit long winded for some organisers and there may be a need to seperate further as in Group A overs and Group A unders from a safety point of view. It will however excuse the need for separating peds from non-peds and lurchers. In fact, I would hope such a format would encourage more lurcher entries to racing from the likes of those previous racers that may be in their veteran years or the likes of a beddy x whippet that whilst not neccesarily the fastest dog there, it was game enough to win it's final.

The only other option is to scrutineer entries and have a ped race and a non-ped race. I personally wouldn't be asking for papers or passports for the reasons I've previously stated. I also feel an experienced organiser should be able to recognise what's presented before them and entrants should be honest. The problem with the latter is that not everyone is honest and it goes nowhere into addressing other problems known within lurcher racing, e.g. the entry of greyhounds into a lurcher event BUT, as I said at the begining, if one thinks winning within such competition a worthy win, the only people they're kidding is themselves.

Edited to add: Had to laugh after posting, I should do a ''spot the ped'', ''spot the non-ped'' & ''spot the greyhound'' quiz with my banner!! (w00t)

 

[Nellie]

Defining a Whippet a breed of dog recognised by the KC as containg nothing but Whippets in its make up :thumbsup:

Non Peds may have a pedigree known to the breeder, BUT not all their make up are whippets hence they're not pure bred just like Alberts reference to the LabxRetrievers

 

[devo12]

defining a whippet = a whippet x whippet whose granparents greatgrandparents greatgreat grandparents were whippets etc proved with a KC Ped anything else = non ped

 

[whippeteerThe1st]

small slender dog of greyhound type developed in England

 

[Nellie]

OK Albert you've got several replies to your opening post :thumbsup: and no acknowledgement from yourself since. :thumbsup: So what would you define as a lurcher after reading these replies? Please :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[dart]

If want English non ped to run at your show run yard per lb event up to set weight 16 to 32 or 36 limit or even no limit class I for one love to travel over if it was done right way good luck it be nice see Irish lads at Scottish derby this month

 

[whippeteerThe1st]

run whippets under 21inch,,,,wotever there history,,,,u know what american say 22 1/2inch,,,england say diffrent

irish have there own opputunittie to put there stamp on it same as other countrys do,,,,if irish say under 22inch then its under 22inch ect ect ect their choice

say u went 21inch under exsample,,,,and kc show whippets lose the racing,,,,tough,,u want the best,,,racers not show ponys,,,end off day show whippets made there bed,,why should they get diffrent class for racing

ive said before,,,there off greyhound type

racing meen,,,u win u go threw next round ,,,u lose u go home

 

[Nellie]

run whippets under 21inch,,,,wotever there history,,,,u know what american say 22 1/2inch,,,england say diffrent
irish have there own opputunittie to put there stamp on it same as other countrys do,,,,if irish say under 22inch then its under 22inch ect ect ect their choice

say u went 21inch under exsample,,,,and kc show whippets lose the racing,,,,tough,,u want the best,,,racers not show ponys,,,end off day show whippets made there bed,,why should they get diffrent class for racing

ive said before,,,there off greyhound type

racing meen,,,u win u go threw next round ,,,u lose u go home

Thats ok if its whippet racing that your competing in :thumbsup:

there off greyhound type?

Do you mean non-peds are off greyhound type?

Cant deny non ped whippets are faster than KC racing whippets but thats to be expected with the inclusion of other breeds, Does it improve the greyhound crossing it with the whippet? So why are they not refered to as non ped greyhounds?

 

[bertha]

run whippets under 21inch,,,,wotever there history,,,,u know what american say 22 1/2inch,,,england say diffrent
irish have there own opputunittie to put there stamp on it same as other countrys do,,,,if irish say under 22inch then its under 22inch ect ect ect their choice

say u went 21inch under exsample,,,,and kc show whippets lose the racing,,,,tough,,u want the best,,,racers not show ponys,,,end off day show whippets made there bed,,why should they get diffrent class for racing

ive said before,,,there off greyhound type

racing meen,,,u win u go threw next round ,,,u lose u go home

Thats ok if its whippet racing that your competing in :thumbsup:

there off greyhound type?

Do you mean non-peds are off greyhound type?

Cant deny non ped whippets are faster than KC racing whippets but thats to be expected with the inclusion of other breeds, Does it improve the greyhound crossing it with the whippet? So why are they not refered to as non ped greyhounds?

"Cant deny non ped whippets are faster than KC racing whippets but thats to be expected with the inclusion of other breeds, Does it improve the greyhound crossing it with the whippet? So why are they not refered to as non ped greyhounds?"

I have wondered that as well. :-

 

[Derekrfc]

run whippets under 21inch,,,,wotever there history,,,,u know what american say 22 1/2inch,,,england say diffrent
irish have there own opputunittie to put there stamp on it same as other countrys do,,,,if irish say under 22inch then its under 22inch ect ect ect their choice

say u went 21inch under exsample,,,,and kc show whippets lose the racing,,,,tough,,u want the best,,,racers not show ponys,,,end off day show whippets made there bed,,why should they get diffrent class for racing

ive said before,,,there off greyhound type

racing meen,,,u win u go threw next round ,,,u lose u go home

Ok so why not have Greyhound types racing and whippet racing that means the ones with greyhound in the breeding race in THEIR own class and whippet race in theirs SORTED.

 

[whippeteerThe1st]

lol,,,,ive caused,,,somthing

right,,,never said i dont think said anything about greyhound breeding

i said a whippets ,,,small slender dog off greyhound type developed in england,,,,,,,dont blame me thats the way there discribed lol ,,in some cases,,,when plls dont know what a whippet is ,,lol lol

and this came about cos k,c brigade,,what to control lurcher shows,,i,e the racing ,,but are unhappy about gettin beat by dog with no papers,,,lol

me personally,,,,throw them all in togther ,but with height capp,,,may the fastest whippet type win,,lol working/ kc/bwra/ u dont want the slowest type winning do you,,,racing about promoting the fastest,,,or whats the point lol