Hi, I was wondering why the distances on the bends were altered from yard and half a pound to yard a pound, does any one know and do you think it is fairer at yard a pound, just interested............
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distances
- Thread starter JoJess
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Hiya Pat
Not sure the reason why the bends distance has changed.
As for fairness, i would say that people with the bigger dogs ( 28lb+ ) would say it was fairer, but as for racers with lightweights ( 20lb or less ) they would prefer it as it was!!!
Karen (thats just my opinion)
Not sure the reason why the bends distance has changed.
As for fairness, i would say that people with the bigger dogs ( 28lb+ ) would say it was fairer, but as for racers with lightweights ( 20lb or less ) they would prefer it as it was!!!
Karen (thats just my opinion)
In my opinion if a big dog can't beat a little dog at that
handicap and distance it just aint fast enough.Some of the old big dogs that could win at yard and a half a pound would
like to be running now at yard a pound.It's all about what size dog your running at the time that infulences your opinion.I've
always been a lover of little dogs [like to watch the big ones
run but don't really want to own one]Sometimes we try to
make allowances for dogs that just are not quick enough.
smurf
handicap and distance it just aint fast enough.Some of the old big dogs that could win at yard and a half a pound would
like to be running now at yard a pound.It's all about what size dog your running at the time that infulences your opinion.I've
always been a lover of little dogs [like to watch the big ones
run but don't really want to own one]Sometimes we try to
make allowances for dogs that just are not quick enough.
smurf
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Pat/Pete,
the little ones that are good enough will win at yard/pound on the bends - you only need to look back at results for bend racing to see the honours for overall are split even between lightweights/ middleweights and heavyweights (this is a matter of record - just check in whippet news) since the yard/pound handicap is FAIR at this distance.
It isn`t difficult to show that yard/pound unduly favours lightweights at distances of or 150yards or thereabouts - when was the last time a heavyweight (or a middleweight come to that) was supreme at BWRA champs?
The truth is that yard/pound makes it impossible for a heavyweight to beat a lightweight - even if the lightweight is second rate.Of course, the lightweight Rch are far from second rate, so the run-off`s are a non-competition and, hence, all the heavyweights withdraw.
Running 1 1/2yard pound on the bends will simply bring bend racing in line with straight racing - lightweights win even if they are second rate.
You are deluding yourself if you believe that racers think that the overall winner at yard/pound is the best whippet of the day since everyone knows its a none competition - which is a shame since there are many really good lightweights that could prove themselves to be truely great by running a fair handicap.As it stands at yard/pound it comes under the catagory of we`ll never know as the handicap means they can`t lose
Smurf,
sure a big dog isn`t fast enough if it cant beat a lightweight at that handicap but do you not think the handicap may be unfair if a heavyweight dog that is multiple Rch/Nch bends and straights can`t beat a club standard dog?
You are correct in that we do make allowances for whippets that are not fast enough, but the fact is that we give lightweights the allowance.The majority of lightweights are too slow to compete with the better heavyweights and those that can (lightweights) don`t get the recognition they deserve because the handicap means any race is a NON-COMPETITION
Tony
the little ones that are good enough will win at yard/pound on the bends - you only need to look back at results for bend racing to see the honours for overall are split even between lightweights/ middleweights and heavyweights (this is a matter of record - just check in whippet news) since the yard/pound handicap is FAIR at this distance.
It isn`t difficult to show that yard/pound unduly favours lightweights at distances of or 150yards or thereabouts - when was the last time a heavyweight (or a middleweight come to that) was supreme at BWRA champs?
The truth is that yard/pound makes it impossible for a heavyweight to beat a lightweight - even if the lightweight is second rate.Of course, the lightweight Rch are far from second rate, so the run-off`s are a non-competition and, hence, all the heavyweights withdraw.
Running 1 1/2yard pound on the bends will simply bring bend racing in line with straight racing - lightweights win even if they are second rate.
You are deluding yourself if you believe that racers think that the overall winner at yard/pound is the best whippet of the day since everyone knows its a none competition - which is a shame since there are many really good lightweights that could prove themselves to be truely great by running a fair handicap.As it stands at yard/pound it comes under the catagory of we`ll never know as the handicap means they can`t lose
Smurf,
sure a big dog isn`t fast enough if it cant beat a lightweight at that handicap but do you not think the handicap may be unfair if a heavyweight dog that is multiple Rch/Nch bends and straights can`t beat a club standard dog?
You are correct in that we do make allowances for whippets that are not fast enough, but the fact is that we give lightweights the allowance.The majority of lightweights are too slow to compete with the better heavyweights and those that can (lightweights) don`t get the recognition they deserve because the handicap means any race is a NON-COMPETITION
Tony
Hi, I dont know how long bend racing has been yard a pound nor when it was altered from yard-and-half a pound!!!!! There were some good finishes at the B.W.R.A championships well done to the winners. I can assure you i never DELUDE my self at all when it comes to whippet racing, it is as far as i am concerned a hobby which we have enjoyed for many a year and hope to do so for many more. Racing at yard a pound has always been ok by us, and i do not think it is non-competitive , when you have won a title at that distance you too will not think it is non-competitive, it is in FACT -HARD WORK - we have had LIGHTWEIGHT/MIDDLEWEIGHTs, we now have a 32lb bitch and find she has a lot of trouble seeing the lure never mind catching the front dog, :angry:i like racing at yard a pound and i believe it is COMPETITIVE does any one else!!!!!!!! 
:angry:
:angry:
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Just so I make myself perfectly clear I`ll restate that I think that yard/pound racing at distances of 150yards or thereabouts gives an unfair advantage to lightweight dogs to the extent that heavier dogs have no realistic chance of winning. Since the handicap rules out the heavier dogs its a non-competition.
It is interesting that you give the example of title`s , where of course all title races are run off scratch - there is no weight handicap involved in attaining Rch status.
I definatly didn`t say whippet racing was an uncompetitive sport - it of course is competitive, whatever the weight of dog raced.
Surely you don`t mean that the winners of yard/pound races, invairably lightweights, only win because of the hard work they do since the reverse of this is that the losers must have lost because they didn`t do the hard work.Heavweight dogs don`t win yard/pound races because the handicap is unfair not because they don`t do any hard work.
Most lightweight owners probably prefer the status quo but as long as yard/pound is prevalant heavyweights will continue to vote with their feet by not bothering to race with lightweights.This devalues any acheivements with regard to overall results and segregates the dogs into specific weight catagories where handicapping is minimal when what is desired is all-in racing.
Tony
It is interesting that you give the example of title`s , where of course all title races are run off scratch - there is no weight handicap involved in attaining Rch status.
I definatly didn`t say whippet racing was an uncompetitive sport - it of course is competitive, whatever the weight of dog raced.
Surely you don`t mean that the winners of yard/pound races, invairably lightweights, only win because of the hard work they do since the reverse of this is that the losers must have lost because they didn`t do the hard work.Heavweight dogs don`t win yard/pound races because the handicap is unfair not because they don`t do any hard work.
Most lightweight owners probably prefer the status quo but as long as yard/pound is prevalant heavyweights will continue to vote with their feet by not bothering to race with lightweights.This devalues any acheivements with regard to overall results and segregates the dogs into specific weight catagories where handicapping is minimal when what is desired is all-in racing.
Tony
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i think yard a lb is plenty enough start for any dog,a good 28/30lb dog will make the yardage up,stewart and deffinately blue used to. also i remember this way giving miles start in the vet champs last year but he still caught em and won,wish i could run at yard a lb against the stunner 28 yard start now that would be nice,leave it yard a lb i think,until i get a little dog ???
???
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Neil,
I assume that you are talking about yard/pound on the bends since I am pretty sure that This Way has never raced veterans at champs on the straights as Keith won`t give the start to smaller dogs - anyway I`ll ask him I
if he has won yard/pound veterans overall when I see him tonight. I assume the race you refer to was NWRF bend champs when This Way just won in spectacular fashion, coming from nowhere to win by a head.
Similarly I don`t recall Stewart or Definatly Blue winning a major straight open overall on the straights but I`ll stand corrected if they did.
Pat/pete
Which open was this? - I thought Ashfordby was 160 ?
Exstacy - to the best of my knowledge has never won a supreme/overall major title at yard/pound on the straights.
I assume that you are talking about yard/pound on the bends since I am pretty sure that This Way has never raced veterans at champs on the straights as Keith won`t give the start to smaller dogs - anyway I`ll ask him I
if he has won yard/pound veterans overall when I see him tonight. I assume the race you refer to was NWRF bend champs when This Way just won in spectacular fashion, coming from nowhere to win by a head.
Similarly I don`t recall Stewart or Definatly Blue winning a major straight open overall on the straights but I`ll stand corrected if they did.
Pat/pete
Which open was this? - I thought Ashfordby was 160 ?
Exstacy - to the best of my knowledge has never won a supreme/overall major title at yard/pound on the straights.
Hi, the open i am refering to is the bank holliday open last monday, after the championships, i was not there but am going on what neil and the others have said , i have now been told she ran in the veterens and won easy. I believe this was over the distance of 160 , which goes to show over a longer distance the lightweights have trouble winning, so where do u draw the line. I think at yrd a pound on the straights over 150 yrds and 160 yrds gives every one chance to win.
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to be honest straight racing doesn,t interest me much,so yes on the bends,but i aint got small dogs or dogs that would go in a weight class on straights,mine too big so as for straights i dont realy care ???
well thanks for your honesty, but our hobby/sport, needs people who do care about the sport and the people who race, the more the merrier as the saying goes, lets see more people interested , that way we are showing that we care... :angry:
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i do care about the sport,hobby as some call it,but what ive seen and heard at the track to most its far from being an hobby that the whole family can enjoy.i never mentioned that i dont like straight racing just that i prefer bend racing,course i care about the HOBBY but its slowly going down hill too much back stabbing,and taking peoples coments out of context,if i never loved my dogs and the racing i wouldnt race,the most enjoyment i get out of racing is meeting friends and taking part,
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I have spoken to Keith with This Way tonight and he has never raced the dog in yard/pound veteren racing on the straights - because he won`t give the yardage at yard/pound, so I`ll assume that Neil was refering to the bends.
It appears that Xstacy ran as a veteran and won - this is a bitch who had just won it`s Rch title again, so it`s probably fair to assume that it`s the best heavyweight running,and so should be the best heavyweight veteran. I doubt wether any of the bitches she raced against had also just won a Rch title so it`s not really a good indication of the merits of yard/pound racing since she was obviously by far the best dog in the race and it was 160yards uphill.Clearly there were no lightweights of the calibre of the new Rch or Demolition Blue or Short Spot or Believe or Sasperalla or Shania or Snow Gem or Branca or Springtime etc - all of whom I`d put money on beating Xcstacy at yard/pound over 150 yards -Or do you not agree?
Exactly who did Xcstacy beat?
Pat/Pete
To imply that yard/pound over 150 yards gives everone a chance to win is contary to both mathematical and historical evidence.
What evidence do you have to substatiate that statement?
Luckyyodin6,
I think it`s a pretty cheap trick to try and infer that this thread suggests that Biddy and Streisland won their titles in an uncompetitve race.
Both Biddy and Streisland won competitive races to gain their titles but to gain overall status it`s equivical as to the competitive nature of the supreme run-off.I wasn`t there on Sunday so I`ll reserve my comments to what happend on Saturday with the bitch run-off -all the heavyweights withdrew ( I doubt if Xstacy was injured as it ran on Monday and couldn`t be that over raced as it was one heat for the title) and the supreme was between Biddy 18lb Rch and Lips and Legs 22lb Rch -not exactly heavyweights both, and was won by Biddy - the lighter of the two.
Streisland to the best of my knowledge is not a heavyweight, or a middleweight come to that.
All of which tends to prove my point - the handicap unduly favours lightweights.
As to the bitch supreme between Biddy and Lips and Legs - it would have been close at 1/2 yard/pound - The result may have been the same, but at least it would have been a race.
Ispoke to Allan with Lips and Legs tonight - he`s thrilled to bits with how his bitch ran and I`m chuffed for him as he`s put a lot of work into the dog to get it running but he`s not disappointed to be beat in the runoff because of the distance he gave to what is obviously a class dog in Biddy.
Ps Thanks Luckyodin6 for doing your best to quote this thread out of context I think you`ll find that the owners of Streisland and Biddy have more sense than your giving them credit for and can understand my point of veiw.
It appears that Xstacy ran as a veteran and won - this is a bitch who had just won it`s Rch title again, so it`s probably fair to assume that it`s the best heavyweight running,and so should be the best heavyweight veteran. I doubt wether any of the bitches she raced against had also just won a Rch title so it`s not really a good indication of the merits of yard/pound racing since she was obviously by far the best dog in the race and it was 160yards uphill.Clearly there were no lightweights of the calibre of the new Rch or Demolition Blue or Short Spot or Believe or Sasperalla or Shania or Snow Gem or Branca or Springtime etc - all of whom I`d put money on beating Xcstacy at yard/pound over 150 yards -Or do you not agree?
Exactly who did Xcstacy beat?
Pat/Pete
To imply that yard/pound over 150 yards gives everone a chance to win is contary to both mathematical and historical evidence.
What evidence do you have to substatiate that statement?
Luckyyodin6,
I think it`s a pretty cheap trick to try and infer that this thread suggests that Biddy and Streisland won their titles in an uncompetitve race.
Both Biddy and Streisland won competitive races to gain their titles but to gain overall status it`s equivical as to the competitive nature of the supreme run-off.I wasn`t there on Sunday so I`ll reserve my comments to what happend on Saturday with the bitch run-off -all the heavyweights withdrew ( I doubt if Xstacy was injured as it ran on Monday and couldn`t be that over raced as it was one heat for the title) and the supreme was between Biddy 18lb Rch and Lips and Legs 22lb Rch -not exactly heavyweights both, and was won by Biddy - the lighter of the two.
Streisland to the best of my knowledge is not a heavyweight, or a middleweight come to that.
All of which tends to prove my point - the handicap unduly favours lightweights.
As to the bitch supreme between Biddy and Lips and Legs - it would have been close at 1/2 yard/pound - The result may have been the same, but at least it would have been a race.
Ispoke to Allan with Lips and Legs tonight - he`s thrilled to bits with how his bitch ran and I`m chuffed for him as he`s put a lot of work into the dog to get it running but he`s not disappointed to be beat in the runoff because of the distance he gave to what is obviously a class dog in Biddy.
Ps Thanks Luckyodin6 for doing your best to quote this thread out of context I think you`ll find that the owners of Streisland and Biddy have more sense than your giving them credit for and can understand my point of veiw.
yes you are right , allens dog legs and lips is one to watch , i should think he is pleased , she ran really well all day .i am sorry if u think i have taken what u said out of context but did u not say that at yard a pound the run off is a non-competitive race. ???( time to stop being contentious and get on with the enjoyment of our sport, i only asked out of interest ??? ??? ???
Interesting to read all the different points of view and the many misunderstandings.
Having raced light and middleweights, bends and straights, and contested plenty of finals, I'd have to say the yd/lb handicap is spot on for the bends and useful only up to about 26lb on the straights.
As somebody else pointed out, the bend supremes come across quite a wide weight range and although if given a choice I'd want a 24-28 pounder, you can win with anything from 20lb upwards.
On the straights the handicap is hugely in favour of 18-22 pounders, you only have to look at the list of supreme champions to know that. That said, I know at her best very few dogs could beat Dancing Wind at 1/2y per lb and I'm certain the same was true of Swift Holly and probably Slippy Blue, Branca and Demolition Blue as well.
One final point, the straight yd/lb handicap does encourage breeders to try to breed whippets in the 18-22lb region because they have the greatest potential to win major prizes, which probably prevents the size of racing whippets from steadily rising through outcrossing to greyhounds.
Having raced light and middleweights, bends and straights, and contested plenty of finals, I'd have to say the yd/lb handicap is spot on for the bends and useful only up to about 26lb on the straights.
As somebody else pointed out, the bend supremes come across quite a wide weight range and although if given a choice I'd want a 24-28 pounder, you can win with anything from 20lb upwards.
On the straights the handicap is hugely in favour of 18-22 pounders, you only have to look at the list of supreme champions to know that. That said, I know at her best very few dogs could beat Dancing Wind at 1/2y per lb and I'm certain the same was true of Swift Holly and probably Slippy Blue, Branca and Demolition Blue as well.
One final point, the straight yd/lb handicap does encourage breeders to try to breed whippets in the 18-22lb region because they have the greatest potential to win major prizes, which probably prevents the size of racing whippets from steadily rising through outcrossing to greyhounds.
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well i would like to start by saying welcome to ian nice to see u on k9
well as i have had a look at the whippet news i can not see events running 1/2 yard a pound so if pat would like to enlighten us with her findings that would be great thanx
well as i have had a look at the whippet news i can not see events running 1/2 yard a pound so if pat would like to enlighten us with her findings that would be great thanx
half yard a pound Dee, wow the big uns would like that on the bends yes you are quite correct in every thing you have said Ian, the idea is to try and get a smaller whippet ie upto 22lb to race over 150 or 160 yrds and i agree Dancing Wind is an exceptional bitch as is certain others ie branca, dem blue, and after the champs i think we can add Allens legs n lips, she will be one to watch next year.
yes you are quite correct in every thing you have said Ian, the idea is to try and get a smaller whippet ie upto 22lb to race over 150 or 160 yrds and i agree Dancing Wind is an exceptional bitch as is certain others ie branca, dem blue, and after the champs i think we can add Allens legs n lips, she will be one to watch next year.Welcome to Dog Forum!
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