Dog Genome Project: Double-muscling In Whippets

[tlewis]

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Oh yes the CWA .......They managed to be one of the reasons our WCRA wouldn't let me import    ........Something to do with a banned member  :- "  ...... So yes I agree with your take on them 

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Never mind Hannah, I'm keeping you a couple of black ones for you to lure course!

I have to say that as the person banned from CWA I'm proud of it. The banning had nothing to do with CWA and in fact, the organization that I had the disagreement with has since rescined their actions. Not so the CWA who only represent a tiny mediocere minority of US racers and I have never actually understood why the WCRA take any notice of them. It must be a matter of who you know, not what you know!!

Oh BTW I couldn't really be a banned member of CWA because I was never a member in the first place. Figure that one out :angry:

 

[Seraphina]

In the case of the German boy, both of his parents carried one copy of the mutation and were both known for their athletic ability. If two people in Germany can find one another and have a child together, it's not unreasonable to allow the possibility that there is more than one source of the mutation in the whippet population. I have not been able to identify a common ancestor in the American lines producing bullies, even if I consider all the rumours
jen

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I do not find it at all surprising that two top elite athletes would find each other. It would be more surprising if they did not know each other.

There are all sort of possibilities of what could trigger spontaneous mutation in several unrelated individuals, but most would not be breed specific. Does anybody know the first recorded incident of bully whippet pup? Of-course, there maybe some and the breeder either put it down, sneaked it out through the back door, or was accused of having the bitch mismated.

 

[Strike Whippets]

Never mind Hannah, I'm keeping you a couple of black ones for you to lure course!

Yeah that'll keep 'em talking for a while Tony

 

[Tony Taylor]

The gene in question governs the production of a growth factor protein called myostatin. Myostatin is a negative regulator of muscle development; so, if your body produces too much myostatin, you will have some sort of muscle wasting disease (like muscular dystrophy). If your body produces too little myostatin, you have muscular hypertrophy (too much muscle).
Different types of myostatin mutations have different effects on muscle development. Some will cause an increase in the size of muscle fibers, some will cause an increase in the number of muscle fibers, and some will cause both.

jen

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But that encapsultes the problem, The breeding of affected "bully" whippets doesn't appear follow simple Mendelsonian genetics. Having bred and owned a number of "bully" whippets it's clear to me that the expression of the "bully" phenotype is variable going from the one extreme of extreme muscular hypertrophy, micronathia, broad skulls and the probability of other geneticaly mediated defects to those that are mildly stocky but have an extra spring in their step.

Whether breeding a faster strain of racing dog is perpetuating a genetic defect is a matter of opinion. I would accept that breeding from the extreme examples (extreme muscular hypertrophy, micronathia, broad skulls and the probability of other geneticaly mediated defects) is probably to be avoided but breeding from "carriers" or those with the extra spring in their step is surely the point of the eugenics of breeding racing dogs in the first place. Evidence that these bully dogs suffer is sparse to say the least.

Not everyone agrees as someone ( and I know who) attempted to report me to the animal welfare for the temerity of selling a very mildly bully pup that would have been unsuitable for racing to a pet home.

 

[Terry & Sheila Smith]

Does anybody know the first recorded incident of bully whippet pup?

As staffie has been crossed into “racing whippets†to some degree or other over the years I doubt it. To what degree it was used is arguable. Some will tell you it was a popular cross 50/60 yrs ago, others will tell you just a few experimental mating’s took place.

This particular mutation of myostatin (MSTN) gene is known to occur in mice as well as people. It has not been found in greyhounds or other fast running dogs.

Which is very strange but genetics always have baffled me, but again it is a spontaneous mutation that’s just happened. It’s also just happened to 2 groups of similar type dogs three thousand miles apart. Could it be that the progenitors of both Whippets & the Bull breeds were the same animals? Certainly both were firmly identified with the working class people of the time.

There are NO Bully types in English peddie racers

Which kind of shoots my suppositions above down in flames as peds & non-peds come from a common root. Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t the heavily muscled whippets known as “English types†in the states for many years? Maybe the bully type is lurking in the ped gene pool waiting to bite.

I understand that in non-ped racing crossing with other breeds does occur, but on this occasion the term 'Bully whippet' is NOT a cross but a type due to change in Myostatin levels, as you said - I called it 'a modified genetic makeup'

Have any actual Bull breeds been used as a control in this series of tests? Perhaps they all carry this mutation like Weimaraners carry the isabelese colour mutation? After all this mutation occurs in humans, mice & dogs so it could be the factor that makes a bull breed a bull breed………………………….eh?

Surely, if you mix with staffy's etc who are of a more 'uptight' nature they can be dangerous? unlike a placid whippy

Every other dog I meet these days seems to be a staffie, 90% have delightful temperaments.

Terry Smith

 

[Tony Taylor]

Have any actual Bull breeds been used as a control in this series of tests? Perhaps they all carry this mutation like Weimaraners carry the isabelese colour mutation? After all this mutation occurs in humans, mice & dogs so it could be the factor that makes a bull breed a bull breed………………………….eh?Surely, if you mix with staffy's etc who are of a more 'uptight' nature they can be dangerous? unlike a placid whippy

Every other dog I meet these days seems to be a staffie, 90% have delightful temperaments.

Terry Smith

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The testing of the bull breeds would confirm or confound my hypothsis that the mutation is part of what makes a bull breed, as Terry says, a bull breed.

Whippet racing and dog fighting have more in common than you might imagine. They are both power sports and any mutation that confers an advantage in that respect will end up established in the breed. Non ped whippets are super saturated with ghd blood. I have had handicap sized dogs at well over 50%, by breeding, ghd blood. However ghds don't throw bully types and whippets have a unique phenotype. Iw ould say that this is because breeding pressure for more power is much greater in whippets than ghds due to the sprint nature of the races and this breeding pressure causes the use of myostatin mutation affected animals as prolific studs and broods.I can name at least 2 prolific studs of recent times that produced bulls along with champions.

I don't think the mutation affects the dogs temperment. If anything affected whippets tend to be more placid. I wouldn't agree that non peds are a placid breed in any case; There are plenty of bad fighters out there as are some of my own.

 

[tlewis]

There are certainly recorded insidents of bull breeds being introduced during the heyday of gambling on whippet racing in the N.E. USA during the 1920's.

Many of the whippets were imports from the UK, imported by wealthy sportsmen and they fitted right in with prohibition, illicit booze and gambling. Whippet racing as it was known then more or less died with the advent of greyhound racing.

 

[Macha]

the Ostrander lab tested some mastiffs, bull terriers etc and didn't find the myostatin mutation in those breeds

 

[Tony Taylor]

the Ostrander lab tested some mastiffs, bull terriers etc and didn't find the myostatin mutation in those breeds

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Did they test any APBTs or Staffies ( although I'd bet this anomaly may well be bred out of pedigree dogs in any case, as it has in ped whippets)

 

[Macha]

Did they test any APBTs or Staffies ( although I'd bet this anomaly may well be bred out of pedigree dogs in any case, as it has in ped whippets)

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apart from the mastiffs, I don't remember which breeds were specifically mentioned. It's true they only sampled small numbers, but that was enough to say that the typical specimens of these muscular breeds didn't owe their stature to the presence of the mh+ gene

The Yorkshire Post article refers to Staffies:

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/country-vie...ticleid=2941255

'A Yorkshire vet said "bullies" were quite well known outside pedigree-conscious circles, however. He said: "Crossing whippets and greyhounds with bull terriers used to be quite a popular tactic in the breeding of lurchers for hunting – as opposed to racing or show – and when bullies occur in this country, they are usually attributed to a throwback to that influence."

'Dr Ostrander said: "I can't rule that out, although we did screen a small number of dogs from heavily muscled breeds, including Staffordshire bull terriers, without finding the variant we found in the whippets.'

 

[elkiehound]

Hi, I have just read this with great interest.

I run Bristol Dog Action Welfare Group (UK). A few months ago we had a very skinny but very muscly little whippet cross come into the rescue. She was a weird little dog with a huge overbite and tail carried high on the back which was also broken, making curve over.

Anyway after her lurcher kennel mate was rehomed we brought her into the house as a foster. Now that she has put on weight and is looking lovely its clear to me after some research that she is in fact a "bully" whippet!!

We thought at first she was crossed witha staffie or something similar but its clear now that she is a pure whippet with the myostatin gene disorder.

She gets bad cramps in her thighs and shoulders and even her jaws sometimes Does anyone know anything to help ease the cramps? She also seems to have breathing difficulties at times and gets very out of breath, almost like a pug.

I will get some pics of her asap.

Any idea how many of these dogs there are around?? Is it quite common?

 

[peppermint lady]

it might be worth you starting a new thread, that way you might get more replies :thumbsup: looking forward to pics

 

[wild whippies]

Don't know if you seen but I replied with some info in the rehoming thread.

Sacha is our bully whippet that's in Tony Taylor's banner above but would love to see some piks of your girl.

There's tons of issues to discuss, that would take an eternity to post.

Feel free to PM me with your number and we can chat further if you like. :thumbsup:

Jac