Dog Puppy

[JAX]

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:angry:

oh great! fantastic pedigree's can still lead to not fantastic pups!
so, if for example, that some time in the future, I was to look for a pup that I would like to show . . . . . ?

if it's so difficult to get it right, as breeders, then what chance does a novice like me have? :wacko:    Its not like we'd keep buying pups until we found the 'right' one

answers on a postcard please :lol:

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I am surprised there has been all this discussion about the photo of this puppy and none of you breeders have thought to tell the breeder to cut this poor little boys nails .

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Sorry , but they shouldnt need telling , its plainly obvious I would have thought . :- " mine get trimed for the first time at about 3/4 weeks If I remember rightly , if not before

Think of poor mum with those claws scratching at her :angry:

 

[masta]

if line and breeding and the odd champion behind it dosnt automatically make it good show potential

why are so many sold on breeding and line? why so many show breeder web sites making claim to line and breeding in fact every breeder of any animal that is shown from mouse to hereford cattle make these claims

 

[doris]

so I dont stand a chance then? :wacko:

perhaps I should start a new thread, asking for advice?

dare I? :unsure:

 

[Avalonia]

oh great! fantastic pedigree's can still lead to not fantastic pups!
so, if for example, that some time in the future, I was to look for a pup that I would like to show . . . . . ?

if it's so difficult to get it right, as breeders, then what chance does a novice like me have? :wacko:   Its not like we'd keep buying pups until we found the 'right' one

answers on a postcard please :lol:

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Fantastic pedigrees vastly enhance the possibility you will get a better dog, but there are no lead pipe cinches in life. But the odds are vastly greater than if you buy a puppy from someone down the street who had an accidental litter, or a puppy from someone who cannot tell you anything about anything other than the dam of the dog and you find she just bred to a male down the road because the stud service was cheap, without regard to type, pedigree etc. If you want to have a good dog then you need to analyze the breed and the lines that have proven themselves admirably over time, and then get to know breeders who have those well bred lines and do so over time so they come to know you well too and trust you, let them see you are truly interested and worthy of a quality specimen and top pick dogs from a litter will come your way.

You cannot buy a pup simply because it is bred by someone down the street, or a friend, or it has a pretty face (how many times have I seen on this community comments about how sweet a faced puppy someone has clipped a photo of, and once you get past the face you realize the dog has nothing going for it), is cheap enough for you to afford, or is simply the best you can find at the spur of the moment when you decide you need a (another) dog to show this year. All of those are stupid reasons for acquiring a dog, or another dog.

It is far better to wait for just the right dog than get the wrong ones to start with and have to start over at some point in future. Breeders look for people who seriously understand and analyze the breed and the dogs within the breed, and when they find people with their heads screwed on right who love the breed to pieces, and who have demonstrated enough competence in assessing dogs they are seeing that they can make informed comments about what they are seeing, they look to place their dogs with them. We do this routinely. A show career is usually very short; a breeding career for a dog covers the first half of its life. You have to pick wisely and well. There are no shortcuts.

Lanny

 

[JAX]

How very right you are Lanny in almost every point :cheers: If its worth having , its worth waiting for ,I waited nealy 2 years for Badger , first the bitch missed and then it was the `wrong` time for jessie and johnstone , but he was well worth waiting for :wub:

As for line breeding , If you ( those that have them ) look in the last Bienniel at the Whipcat page 266, you will see a picture of Harvee (w00t) no , he wasnt born then but his uncle Conner was . they are so alike its scary .Thats breeding to type :huggles:

 

[dessie]

(how many times have I seen on this community comments about how sweet a faced puppy someone has clipped a photo of, and once you get past the face you realize the dog has nothing going for it)

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That's very harsh!!

Most of the time photos are posted of people's pets, they are not asking for an opinion of how good or bad a specimen their puppy is, they are quite rightly proud of their pet and just want to share a few photos with like-minded lovers of the breed. If you cannot understand that, then I feel very sad for you.

 

[Avalonia]

(how many times have I seen on this community comments about how sweet a faced puppy someone has clipped a photo of, and once you get past the face you realize the dog has nothing going for it)

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That's very harsh!!

Most of the time photos are posted of people's pets, they are not asking for an opinion of how good or bad a specimen their puppy is, they are quite rightly proud of their pet and just want to share a few photos with like-minded lovers of the breed. If you cannot understand that, then I feel very sad for you.

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I was not referrring to people's beloved pets. I was referring specifically to when someone posts photos of a litter of pups and people rhapsodize about the sweet faces on 4 week old puppies -- and some apparently buy largely based on the sweet face that they fall in love with.

IMHO there isn't a whippet in the world that doesn't have a sweet face -- that is a positive given. Have you ever seen an ugly faced whippet? I haven't which is why they are such a captivating breed.

All I was saying is when you pick a dog for show purposes you have to look beyond the meltingly beautiful face and the delightful expression on its face and look for conformation, personality, pedigree if you are seriously looking for a good show and breeding prospect.

Lanny

 

[urchin]

following on from that Dessie - a lot of us on here have whippets because we love the breed, but have no intention of any kind of 'serious' occupation with them. so a pretty face and a sweet nature really is the be-all and end-all of it.

To me, it doesn't matter one jot if Dij conforms to type - i don't have the time or dedication to show him.......we go to companion shows if the weather is good, and he might get a go on the lure one of these days but only so long as he enjoys it....

and, given what everyone is saying about the tiny number of pups who have what it takes for the show ring - it's a blummin good job that there are plenty of us out there who do fall in love with those pointy nosed pretty faces - regardless of what else 'isn't going for it' behind!

 

[Millie]

IMHO there isn't a whippet in the world that doesn't have a sweet face -- that is a positive given. Have you ever seen an ugly faced whippet? I haven't which is why they are such a captivating breed.

Lanny

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No don't say it Dessie LOL :- " :lol: :lol: :lol:

I didn't own a ugly mug ......... no such thing (w00t) (w00t) (w00t)

 

[dessie]

IMHO there isn't a whippet in the world that doesn't have a sweet face -- that is a positive given. Have you ever seen an ugly faced whippet? I haven't which is why they are such a captivating breed.

Lanny

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No don't say it Dessie LOL :- " :lol: :lol: :lol:

I didn't own a ugly mug ......... no such thing (w00t) (w00t) (w00t)

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No, I'm sorry I have to tell the truth :b ..................... yes I have known a Whippet that doesn't have a sweet face and, boy, was she ugly !!! But, in fairness, it didn't stop her winning!!!!

 

[doris]

see what I mean about being brave enough to ask . . . . . . . ?

any advice is greatfully received anyway, thanks :thumbsup:

 

[Nine Lives]

There is a difference in people interested in a breed. Most of them are pet buyers who want to find a companion for the next 15 years and they decide for that puppy that speaks to their heart, no matter if it is show or breeding quality. There is nothing wrong with that ! But they buy their dogs at breeders who try to do the best for their beloved breed. And if a breeder chosses a puppy, he will have to look at the whole puppy and at the pedigree because he wants to do good for the breed. We all know that in a litter you find not only excellent specimen who are close to the standard, but also pet quality. But we don`t need all puppies with show quality, for a pet buyer something else is much more important if he chooses his dog.

So it is natural that comments on a dog could be different and there is no reason to struggle, just consider who comments and for what purpose. If breeders would choose only because of a pretty face, a breed would be in a bad condition very soon, maybe that bad, that not even pet buyers still like the breed.

If a breeder presents his litter with photos, most comments will be based only on a first impression and will not say anything about the objectice quality of the litter. Hopefully these breeders know about that and don`t think that all these comments prove the show quality of their litter.

I think that is what Lanny meant.

Ulrike

 

[firesprite]

Hi Doris,

Getting a dog or bitch for show/breeding is honestly quite a gamble! The pedigree can be as long as your arm and full of champion this champion that.... but it will not be a guarantee of a good puppy, it merely indicates POTENTIAL...

Good potential can be enhanced by correct nutrition and limited correct exercise but i have to say that on the day it will depend on the pups behaviour, ie wether it "shows well" and if it is the "type" favoured by the judge. (I am assuming you mean championship level showing).

I have had longdogs for years and pedigree pointers at Crufts standard. I found the whole show experience one of back stabbing and bitching as many people take it sooooooo terribly seriously.... it can be demoralisingly facey "oooh you are judging me next week so id better place you so this week" etc etc... However at different levels of showing you get different circles of people and different winners. So you may own a "good Championship dog" who is thrown out consistently at Open level and visa versa. In other words a lot IMO is who you know and a lot of luck!! The times i was told to give my dog to his breeder who would then subsequently "win the class to get him a ticket where as if i had been on the lead we would get thrown out...."

So i left showing to join what i view as proper showing of longdogs and the like where it really is judged on the real merit of the dog, its fair, its honest and its open. People are more friendly and less likely to be facey.

Having said that im sure i will get a barrage of comments form hardened showers who have a great time.. Good, enjoy, perhaps whippet showing is more fair and friendly??? But be aware there is already the typeyness creeping in with now "working type" whippets and "show type" whippets. It depends what you want out of the dog...... get yourself to some shows and ask a lot of questions, read the breed standard and look carefully at the dogs on show. Then go to a local race meets or similar and watch the dogs there...... Remember many (not all) show potential dogs available really mean that the breeder wants to win prizes rather than keep the breed true!!!!

let the barrage commence!

 

[firesprite]

ps, im not suggesting anything detrimental about this particular puppy or breeder on this thread at all, he looks really nice, but then dont they all?

 

[dessie]

Hi Doris,
Getting a dog or bitch for show/breeding is honestly quite a gamble! The pedigree can be as long as your arm and full of champion this champion that.... but it will not be a guarantee of a good puppy, it merely indicates POTENTIAL...

Good potential can be enhanced by correct nutrition and limited correct exercise but i have to say that on the day it will depend on the pups behaviour, ie wether it "shows well" and if it is the "type" favoured by the judge. (I am assuming you mean championship level showing).

  I have had longdogs for years and pedigree pointers at Crufts standard. I found the whole show experience one of back stabbing and bitching as many people take it sooooooo terribly seriously.... it can be demoralisingly facey "oooh you are judging me next week  so id better place you so this week" etc etc...  However at different levels of showing you get different circles of people and different winners. So you may own a "good Championship dog" who is thrown out consistently at Open level and visa versa. In other words a lot IMO is who you know and a lot of luck!! The times i was told to give my dog to his breeder who would then subsequently "win the class to get him a ticket where as if i had been on the lead we would get thrown out...."

So i left showing to join what i view as proper showing of longdogs and the like where it really is judged on the real merit of the dog, its fair, its honest and its open. People are more friendly and less likely to be facey.

Having said that im sure i will get a barrage of comments form hardened showers who have a great time.. Good, enjoy, perhaps whippet showing is more fair and friendly??? But be aware there is already the typeyness creeping in with now "working type" whippets and "show type" whippets. It depends what you want out of the dog...... get yourself to some shows and ask a lot of questions, read the breed standard and look carefully at the dogs on show. Then go to a local race meets or similar and watch the dogs there...... Remember many (not all) show potential dogs available really mean that the breeder wants to win prizes rather than keep the breed true!!!!

let the barrage commence!

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Have to say, I am with you on this one, having shown quite a few gundog breeds before coming into hounds, and knowing people who show in other groups. I think we are fairly fortunate in Whippets because, on the whole, most people are very friendly and we share a common interest ................ our breed!!!

 

[pegun1]

I would like to say this puppy is no longer for Sale...i put him on here because i was hoping that he would find a lovely home,after advice from a friend (thats had whippets for 30 odd years) that hes got potential for the showring i put that he has show potential which means exactly that no guarantees .I didnt ask to be sniped at regarding the pups nails,the pups nails have been trimmed from approx a week old and they GROW .they also get a trim just before they go to their new homes and any time in between.not that i should have to explain myself ,I have been a member of K9 for quite some time but never post because too often i have seen people get dived on for asking questions and being pulled to pieces,when i joined it was because i wanted to get to know other people with whippets,There are some nice people on here,but also some back biters that i think just enjoy shooting people down.If you have any thing to say about someone that you want them to read you should do it privately,lots i would like to say but will refrain from letting myself be dragged into petty arguements from people who know nothing of me or about me.

 

[doris]

 

[Seraphina]

I would like to say this puppy is no longer for Sale...i put him on here because i was hoping that he would find a lovely home,after advice from a friend (thats had whippets for 30 odd years) that hes got potential for the showring i put that he has show potential which means exactly that no guarantees .I didnt ask to be sniped at regarding the pups nails,the pups nails have been trimmed from approx a week old and they GROW .they also get a trim just before they go to their new homes and any time in between.not that i should have to explain myself ,I have been a member of K9 for quite some time but never post because too often i have seen people get dived on for asking questions and being pulled to pieces,when i joined it was because i wanted to get to know other people with whippets,There are some nice people on here,but also some back biters that i think just enjoy shooting people down.If you have any thing to say about someone that you want them to read you should do it privately,lots i would like to say but will refrain from letting myself be dragged into petty arguements from people who know nothing of me or about me.

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I did not notice anybody actually snipping at you. Nobody questioned your pup's quality, what was questioned at one stage was Lanny's uncritical endorsement of your puppy. As she is a well-known and respected breeder, a novice could have taken her comment as meaning that this pup will definitely be a top show dog.

This is a FORUM, we post our ideas and opinions, naturally we often disagree, sometimes the discussion gets bit heated, but that is the whole point of forums. When you post something on forum you should expect people would comment, that can hardly be described as backbiting.

Commenting on your pup's long nails was, I am sure, meant as a helpful advice from a more experienced person, not a criticism. Things often look unfriendly when written down; if the same words would be spoken the tone of voice or/and facial expression would show the speaker's friendly intention.

 

[pegun1]

Hi Seraphina

i wasnt bothered about any one commenting on the pups quality,every one is individual and has individual taste as to what type of dog they like or dislike i really do not have a problem with that sort of comment or feedback,and i do know what you mean about posts and being written and peoples facial expressions,what i did take offence at was the comment about the nails which i took to be a snipe at me not the dog,after all i am responsible for the condition of the dog,maybe i took it wrong but i was very offended,I dont claim to be an expert on showing but do have experienced people that i take advice from,i look at k9 every day,and see some people get shot down for asking questions some people are not computer literate and find it hard to search the boards i for one did when i first joined,i just wish that people would remember that we are all beginners at some stage,be it dogs pc's etc and without asking questions would never find answers,i can remember years ago when i first had whippets (about 20 years ago) i went to ringcraft i cringe when i think back.... but heres a brilliant example i had watched people stack their dogs and stacked my whippet and held her tail out because i had seen the other people with red setters do that just before :- " if i hadnt been shown how is was supposed to be by nice friendly people i would have been scared off from the show scene,what i am trying to say is that i think its wrong for people to be made to look foolish ,maybe i was being touchy but that is my feelings on the matter,wouldnt it be nicer if people shared their hints and tips to the beginners

Dawn

 

[JAX]

Now youve started posting Dawn, I hope you will join in on some`discussions` too

I bet your whippet wondered what was going on when you held their tail out :lol:

When I first started no one told me about triming tails and my first whippet had a really busy tail too Id been to quite q few local shows before Angela Randell ( Hammonds ) took me to one side and showed me what needed to be done, I will always be grateful to her for that and although I might look like a `busy body` ( :- " I always try to give newcomers helpful hints when I think they are `lost` , Usually they are as grateful as I was with Angela.

As you said , we are all novices to begin with and shouldnt `jump ` on people for not being as `worldly wise ` , please forgive us K9ers if we seemed to be `having a go`.

Back to the dogs now , Will you be in the show ring in the near future ?

Jackie