Dog won't loose leash walk or learn new tricks

[Lifecycle66]

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Hello,

My 2 year old Border Collie constantly pulls on the lead. I've tried the traditional training methods which include clicker and treats/praise but it seems the urge to be ahead is greater than the need to please me or receive a treat. Also I can't teach her anymore tricks. I taught her sit and lie down as a puppy but now I can't tempt her into any of the first positions with clicker/treat in order to advance. What do I do, or sometimes can a dog just resist training?

 

[gypsysmum2]

It is unusual for a dog to resist training. Without seeing her body language when you are trying to train her it is difficult to know what might be going on.

One thing that comes to mind is that she is offering you a "trick", such as sitting, and is stuck in that behaviour waiting for a reward?

I think the best thing that you could do is to ring up a trainer from APDT (Associaton of Pet Dog Trainers - motto Kind, Fair and Effective) and ask them if they could assess her. They could give you tips on loose lead walking, which is one of the hardest things to teach, and try to spot why she is resisting learning new tricks.

 

[deegee]

Collies are natural learners so if you taught her a couple of things and can't go further something has gone wrong with the dynamics between you! (it happens in the best relationships!) Certainly consult a professional if you're able. Don't think though that there's a flaw in her - it's the process not working and you need to find another. Has something changed in your life at all- because collies have superb anxiety radar and she may be anxious because you are?

 

[wolfenmann]

My first answer here. I love that you have a Border Collie -- they're such fantastically intelligent people. (More than some human people I know.)

But to be serious, I really, frankly, absolutely don't see how a tiny bit of pain could harm when it could help. (Sorry -- bad turn of phrase.) Konrad Lorenz -- a man of much stature -- in Man meets Dog says the best way is to whack him with a little stone such that the dog doesn't know where it came from. Such as with a slingshot. (He shouldn't think you're punishing him.)

But the slingshot apart, how about pulling her back with vigour each time she's ahead, and saying a word? "No" or "Back" or whatever? Border Collies are smart enough to pick up the word in just a few sessions.

Yeah, if it's a collar, it'll be more painful than with a harness, which I'm supposing will be pretty painless: Dogs' chests don't feel much pain (unless it's incisive). IMHO, all you need to do is to yank back at the harness really hard when she lunges forward, and say the catch word at the exact same time. For about a week. I'm sure she'll learn.

Clicker training is underrated in terms of the variety of things it can achieve, but overrated in terms of simple things such as leash pulling.

 

[JoanneF]

Fortunately the original poster hasn't visited for a couple of weeks so may not see the above post. First yanking a dog back by the collar can cause trachea damage. Unless you want to risk unintentional injury and a vet bill, avoid yanking a collar. Second, hitting a dog with a stone is unnecessary, dangerous and cruel. As above, if you want to avoid a vet bill for possible injury - as well as a dog cruelty allegation, don't do it. Wolfenmann, please don't take this personally but dogs are as you say intelligent creatures and are therefore far more likely to respond to reward for doing something well than an out of the blue sting from a stone for something they didn't realise they were doing wrong in the first place. At every moment a dog is doing many things - as well as pulling (the unwanted behaviour) he is sniffing, checking his environment, observing, exercising, protecting his owner - all of a sudden a stone stings him. How does he know which behaviour was wrong (even if he associates the stinging stone with the behaviour in the first place and not, say, the location; which in future he may refuse to go to). But if in the nanosecond when he stops pulling and there is some slack in the lead the walker clicks and rewards, he will learn slack lead equals reward because that is the consistent thing that guarantees good things.

 

[deegee]

Is the Wolfenmann post real? I ask because it seems rooted in beliefs a century old. The science of animal behaviour has moved onto another planet since this sort of punishment regime was used. Positive reinforcement has been shown again and again to be not only humane, but to work.

And although I don't wish to offend anyone on this forum, it has to be said: Konrad Lorenz may have been an adequate scientist in his day but human understanding advances. I do think the way people relate to each other and to animals is part and parcel of the same general set of impulses- and Lorenz in his youth was a Nazi. :ermm:

 

[Raven oaktree]

Great posts Joanne and Deegee !

Please please don't listen to anyone who tells you to hurt your dog during training. You are not the top dog , you don't have to lead through fear. Your dog will learn through kindness and consistancy . Contact a properly trained person to help get you started with loose leash walking .

 

[wolfenmann]

Second, hitting a dog with a stone is unnecessary, dangerous and cruel. As above, if you want to avoid a vet bill for possible injury - as well as a dog cruelty allegation, don't do it.

---Taken, Joanne. Thing is, my inclination to approve of the slingshot approach is due in part to the fact that Lorenz is a Nobel laureate -- and I'm an academic :- )

 

[wolfenmann]

>> Is the Wolfenmann post real? I ask because it seems rooted in beliefs a century old. ... and Lorenz in his youth was a Nazi. :ermm:

It's a little hard for me to come to terms with this: If I hadn't read the book, I'd have said sling-shotting a dog is cruel. And as in my reply to Joanne: "My inclination to approve of the slingshot approach is due in part to the fact that Lorenz is a Nobel laureate -- and I'm an academic." Yes, Lorenz was a Nazi at one time, but I seriously didn't make the connection between that and his approach to dogs -- especially because the book is so fantastic.

An aside, talking about Lorenz: He uses the word "characterless" for dachshunds, which is exactly what I said about my own dachshund despite my love for her. So maybe it's also a resonance thing.

 

[Raven oaktree]

I genuinely cannot believe you claim to be an academic yet out of the hundreds of studies done and mountains of available literature that explains why using force or physical pain to train is not good ..you find info that says slingshot your dog with a stone ..

I think I'm going to leave this forum I was looking for a friendly place that loves dog but for some strange reason it seems to draw idiots in and I just have no patience left. People just seem to want permission to give their pets away , put them down , or ask questions about a sick animal when really , they should be seeking treatment.. im sorry ive tried this place 3 times now ..

 

[Raven oaktree]

Second, hitting a dog with a stone is unnecessary, dangerous and cruel. As above, if you want to avoid a vet bill for possible injury - as well as a dog cruelty allegation, don't do it.

---Taken, Joanne. Thing is, my inclination to approve of the slingshot approach is due in part to the fact that Lorenz is a Nobel laureate -- and I'm an academic :- )

Quite a few of us on here have Degree's too ..Quite a few don't ..but you do not need to be an academic to know you don't hit your dog with rocks , especially from a bloody sling shot ..don't suppose by any chance you have been hiding in the bushes and using a sling shot on your depressed dog ???? Cos if someone was sling shotting me id be pretty pissed off too

 

[JoanneF]

Nobel Laureates are not always noble.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/10/151005-nobel-laureates-forget-racist-sexist-science/