Dogs At Stud

[John E Greenwood]

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Is there a W.C.R.A. or N.W.C.C. system of approving stud dogs?????

If not...should there be???...dogs are advertised as having "raced" or "coursed with" a specific club......should they have WIN something before they are eligable for standing at stud ????

 

[BeeJay]

No.

And

No.

And

No. :lol:

I would like to add though what the hell would a stud dog's credentials have to do with the WCRA. The WCRA has as it's members racing clubs not human's who own dogs. It's concerned with the mechanics of racing and not the moral judgement of what individuals choose to do.

 

[John E Greenwood]

That seems pretty conclusive, beejay, thankyou......

I suppose that you are saying that choice of dog is entirely up to the individual...which I can accept.

Is it, then unscrupulous in any way to advertise a dog as a "stud dog" when it has no particular merit????...does advertising a moderate dog as a "stud dog" mislead the unsuspecting whippet owner, wishing to breed his beloved bitch to a "good dog" in any way???

 

[Terry & Sheila Smith]

  Is it, then unscrupulous in any way to advertise a dog as a "stud dog" when it has no particular merit????...does advertising a moderate  dog as a "stud dog" mislead the unsuspecting whippet owner, wishing to breed his beloved bitch to a "good dog" in any way???

My version of the OED defines "stud" as being publicly available for breeding. No mention of class, quality or success. I know there are people around asking some pretty stiff money for dogs that haven't achieved much. If people are stupid enough to pay that kind of money thats up to them. I also know (as you do) of several dogs that by your standards are successful that haven't been able to do the business. Do you leave those lines alone or look for an unraced, unshown brother that may be able to throw a rope?

The WCRA could of course open a stud book where a dog has to perform to a certain standard like show dogs have to win at a certain level before they get a stud book number. Incidentally the stud book system of any breed hasn't prevented unsound dogs from pumping their genes into the gene pool. Can't see that the WCRA will do any better.

Terry Smith

btw Happy Christmas All.

 

[BeeJay]

>Is it, then unscrupulous in any way to advertise a dog as a "stud dog" when it has no particular merit????...does advertising a moderate dog as a "stud dog" mislead the unsuspecting whippet owner, wishing to breed his beloved bitch to a "good dog" in any way???

I personally don't think so. It's buyer beware. Or bitch owner beware. It's up to the bitch owners to do their research and decide on what they want for their bloodlines.

I also believe that stud dog owners should make judgements about who they want their dogs to be mated to. A stud dogs reputation can be made or broken on what a bitch produces (or not :b ). So why let them go to an inferior bitch?

No particular merit or inferior is difficult to decide upon. A dog that I would immediately discount as not being what I was looking for may well be the choice of someone else because they'd see merit where I don't.

I hope that this makes some sense. Have to stop now as I'm about to have a glass of wine my first but not my last of the day. :cheers:

Have a happy christmas.

 

[Strike Whippets]

......should they have WIN something before they are eligable for standing at stud ????

Why ?? ...........There are plenty of dogs out there who have never won anything as they are in the harder weight groups at opens, were injured early in their careers etc.......the list goes on ......

Is it, then unscrupulous in any way to advertise a dog as a "stud dog" when it has no particular merit????...does advertising a moderate dog as a "stud dog" mislead the unsuspecting whippet owner, wishing to breed his beloved bitch to a "good dog" in any way???

In fairness if the unsuspecting Whippet owner is breeding from their bitch, then it's up to them to know what they are looking for and know the bloodlines/pedigree and surley what is behind that stud dog, or they really shouldn't be breeding from that bitch ...... :thumbsup:

 

[John E Greenwood]

All very interestig.......I agree that every one should be free to make their own choices and decisions about breeding..But I think a stud list of some sort could be usefull to bitch owners trying to select a dog...

For the record...I would be VERY SURPRISED if any serious racer did want to use Barney.....Hanna, even I, through the rose coloured specs of doting ownership can see that he is in one of the "easier weight groups" 8) ...and as you have mentioned (I think several times :wub: )....he is right on the limit for size...He hasn't got the depth of breeding discussed on another thread (hopefully, his future anticedents, through Twister and future generations will have). However, he is 12th in the Superstars dog league, and he is there legitimately, and that is the best I have done in the 6 years I've been racing, there may be some luck involved, but I am very proud of him (doting dad :b ).....Also, for the record, I think he could improve A LOT of coursing dogs 8) ..won't go into why I think that, here

I started this thread though, because it seems to me that the "market" for stud dogs is led by commercialism, and the people who do the best advertising....and it occured to me that some sort of regulation, and guidance for bitch owners could be usefull.

 

[John E Greenwood]

didn't mean anticedents, did I?...meant decendents

 

[Strike Whippets]

We all have rose coloured specs John when it comes to our own dogs .......thats only natural .........and there are alot of people on here who's dogs have done well aswell, but for some reason alot of the racing folk don't seem to mention their dogs achievements ..........Some of the bigger dogs have been used at stud ie WCRCh Tusken Raider, WCRCh The Bear to name a few (it'll be a shame if no one used WCRCh Steadfast)

He hasn't got the depth of breeding discussed on another thread (hopefully, his future decedents, through Twister and future generations will have)

This is what any of us who breed's a litter hope's for ..........I guess people breed to improve their line all of the time ........I've taken my dog that "jibs" to a very well bred dog who has never been used before, and just because this bitch and dog have never really won anything will this make this a bad breeding ?? ........WCRCh and Sporting Champion Graceful Chime's Mum never won anything either and look what she produced .........As for "Stud Dogs" needing to prove themselves and win things ......Look at Blues Clues etc's dad Carbon Arc :thumbsup:

Personally I still think it's down to the bitch owners to know the lines they want and the charactaristics behind their own bitch and the stud dog they choose ........Stud dog owners can advertise their dog in flashing lights as far as I'm concerned, but if it dosn't meet what I'm looking for I wouldn't use him :thumbsup: ......I chose the dog I wanted to use on his breeding tieing in, temprement, conformation, weight, height and lucky he was black aswell (w00t) .............As I said its the bitch owners that want to breed, if they don't know pedigree's they shouldn't be breeding IMHO :thumbsup:

I do agree that the coursing bred dogs could do with some racing blood........but as you said that's another thread

 

[Vicky]

I started this thread though, because it seems to me that the "market" for stud dogs is led by commercialism, and the people who do the best advertising....and it occured to me that some sort of regulation, and guidance for bitch owners could be usefull.

Butting in

I agree to a point with what you've said, some people do talk their dogs up to be something they're not & i do think a certain amount of who the owner is accounts for the amount of bitches a "stud dog" gets. There's some non ped stud dogs that i'd be interested to see if they got so many bitches had they been owned by joe bloggs who doesn't travel to opens much.

In saying that the choice is entirely up to the bitch owner & i know if they brought such a thing in with non ped racing it wouldn't stop me from going to a less well known dog with breeding i liked.

Like Hannah says though if people (say a newcomers) dive straight in & have a lining with any old crap they have no-one to blame but themselves

 

[Strike Whippets]

if people (say a newcomers) dive straight in & have a lining with any old crap they have no-one to blame but themselves

Some one asked to use my Jacob once ..........But between me and Jacobs breeder we decided no (even though both of us had different reasons why :blink: )...........The bitch owner chose Jacob by his colour and temprement alone (easily done I know as he's perfect :wub: ).........BUT ......she had no idea about the dogs behind her girls ped, their characters, what she was looking for or expecting from this mating etc .........It was the best £100 I never earnt I can tell you going by what this "bitch owner" has carried on and continued to do :- "

 

[John E Greenwood]

I've taken my dog that "jibs" to a very well bred dog who has never been used before, and just because this bitch and dog have never really won anything will this make this a bad breeding ??

Breeding involves some very subjective and personal decisions, Hannah.....I wouldn't pressume to pass judgement on you, your dogs or the decisions which you have made about breeding them...Breeding is an imprecise science, anything can happen....I hope your pups do well for you. :cheers:

I suppose the Superstars Dog League provides some guidence to people trying to select a sire, and titles awarded to dogs (W.C.R.Ch, Sporting Champ.)...If some one is looking for excellence on the race track as a priority, it would seem a good place to start. 8)

There always seems to be a tendency, in my experience for breeders to think that one characteristic neccassarily excludes another from an animals' make up...eg a fast dog can't be a stayer :wacko: .....I think that if you look hard enough in any population of animals (whippets, dairy cows, or anything else)...you will be able to find studs which full fill all the criteria you are looking for.....An old cowman once told me.."your not baking a cake"...by that I think he meant that you can't pick one characteristic from a studs' make up and think that you can "stir it into" your bitch....you have to take the stud as a package.

 

[beaker]

whats the track record for a dairy cow round a 240 bend

 

[sue greenwood]

With a good wind behind it and closely followed by a mad herdsman about 20 seconds. You'll also be able to feed your roses too and your potatoes.