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(early) dawn barking/waking in crate

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Would a poo in the kitchen be such a disaster given that you are so tired? It is hard to see the wood for the trees when you are exhausted. If it went on and on (the poo at night) then you might have to think again.
Good point gypsysmum2.

And Kate75 that is really, really heartening to hear, thank you. It kind of makes me feel like a failure to be considering giving up on the crate! But he is a good boy. We have given up on it during the day and it seems to be (fingers crossed) going fine. I just went out for two hours and left him (admittedly after a good walk) in the kitchen and he was totally fine it would seem and has just slept. Is this a risky strategy? Is this irresponsible? He barks as soon as kong is finished if left in crate...

I am very tempted to risk the poo on the kitchen floor, as gypsysmum2 suggests... Also, since antibiotics started, 2 nights no night poos - yeahhhhh!

Thank you both so much for your support and clarity!
I havent used a crate for any of my boys (dogs) including the new pup. He does however have access to the garden and apart from his upset tummy has been going into the garden.

He does not go to the toilet at night (he did when he had upset tum which is now ok).

I think you should take in to consideration all the advice given to you on here as some of it is brilliant.

When I go out pup (cody) goes into the kitchen my other boys like to go to their beds upstairs.

I have not had any accidents as yet.
Ok I thought I'd update you lovely folks on POSITIVE PROGRESS!!

We have had not one but TWO full nights sleep with no interruptions!  The first time since late January when we got out puppy!  What a difference....

Thanks to the encouragement here we bit the bullet out of desperation and just left the puppy loose in the kitchen with his bed overnight. We were prepared for poos in the floor and the usual early hours barking for us to come. Night one - nada. We went down at 630 to a sleepy puppy who didn't want to go out to the garden. Night two - nada. We woke a sleepy puppy at 645. WOW WOW WOW!

He is happy and calm out "free" in the kitchen/dining room. No signs of any major mischief (we were careful to clear table and surfaces etc). 

Now I know you are "supposed" to crate train your dog for their own good etc. So feel we have failed on that big time. But we have totally WON in the sleep department!!  No accidents on floor and a chilled puppy. After all that, even though he was good going to bed in his crate, he hated waking up in it and staying in it. 

We are so happy. My only concern is whether we will have problems having a non-crate trained dog further down the line e.g. If he has to have operation (neutering) etc??   Any thoughts on that?

Cant wait to get rid of the huge ugly cumbersome metal crate either! Especially when travelling...
Oh I'm so pleased!  Sounds like your boy had the same issues with Holly and whatever they were exactly, you and I will probably never know!

I felt a failure over the crate too especially as everywhere seems to really promote it but at the end of the day you have to do what keeps you sane as Gypsysmum rightly pointed out!  And we never planned to keep her in it long term!  It did its job keeping her safe when she was a small pup and helped massively with the house training so it had its uses!

Holly is much happier out of it and I look at the size of her now and think there is actually no way I could contemplate shutting her up in one!  one of my theories is that she did get too big for it as she likes to change position and place several times in the night and the crate would have been confining her!  

We're well into chewy stage now, she never touches anything at night but during the day she is confined to the kitchen and we have puppy proofed it as best we can.  So far the worst she has done is eat the calendar and the PVC table cloth!  

As far as the crating further down the line goes, Holly was in for her spay op a few weeks ago and was fine.  Our vet hospital leaves their arrival time as long as possible before they start the operation procedure so they have very little waiting around and then when they come out they are way too drugged up to notice they are in a crate!  I checked with vet nurses and receptionists and they said Holly had no issues before or after.  
Now it's THREE FULL NIGHTS sleep!  Can't believe our luck!  Interesting Kate75 that you had exactly the same situation and I'm so grateful that you posted, thank you...

I am really glad to hear that the spaying went OK with the crate at the vet - I will look out for the timings of the op at our vet when that comes around...

Have you been away to stay anywhere?  What have you done at night about sleeping arrangements?  I'm guessing you just take her usual dog bed and hope for the best? 

How old is your dog?  I was kind of hoping that we were OUT of the chewing phase (he is 5 months) - but maybe I am naive and he hasn't even started it...??  Nothing has been chewed yet other than his own toys/sticks etc...

Thanks so much for all help and support!
Holly is now 8 months and the chewing really started in earnest when her adult teeth came in around the 5/6 month mark. 

We've had a german shepherd before and she was really chewy until she was about 18 months old so we knew what to expect with Holly!   I think its partly teeth still, partly curiosity and partly cos she just enjoys a good chew!  

You might be lucky as some dogs never get into chewing.  Friends of ours have a ridgeback who is now 4.  She came out of her crate at 3 months and has never chewed anything!  

We haven't actually taken her away for the night yet but as she sleeps on the landing on a mat for most of the night then I think she'd probably be fine in with us on her mat wherever we go.  She can't have a proper bed at the moment as she eats them...  the mats are just about surviving...

Glad to hear he is still settling well at night!
Eeek well it is good to have the warning about the chewing... I thought we had got off lightly somehow!  His baby teeth are all falling out now so I assume the adult teeth are rapidly on the way...  I do hope our kitchen is chew-proof enough for him to be out at night when that starts.... fingers crossed.

Hope the chewing stops for you soon!
Update - four full nights sleep!  No damage to kitchen/dining room.  Calmer dog.
Update a few weeks on.... haven't had a single problem with night or early waking since abandoning the crate. No toileting in house either. He waits until we get up and let him out - sometimes he is so sleepy he doesn't even want to go out!  Calmer, happier dog all round. Best of all we are crate free!  No ugly metal thing in kitchen!  I am sure the crate did play some role in his early toilet training but losing it seemed to speed up the last part and has made everyone more happy and relaxed. Thought I should post this in case others are in my situation - I felt like a "bad mum" for abandoning the crate but in out particular situation it really helped. 
That's great to hear. You must be so much happier, you can start to really enjoy having him now.
Yay!  I'm so glad its still going well!  

Sounds like your boy and my Holly are similar dogs!  Obviously crates just weren't for them!
Just as an FYI:
 - personally, i despise wire AKA show crates. No bones about it; the only thing they're good for, is trapping a dog to keep her / him on display to every passerby at a breed-ring show. Period.   <_<  
 - OTOH, i have several airline-approved shipping crates of varied sizes [3] which i've used for years on end, for my dogs, client's dogs, transporting injured wildlife, housetraining, surgery recovery, estrus safety, & more.   :D   Love 'em. They don't leak, splash, rust, rattle madly when the dog gets up at 2-am to roll over, AND... they're the gold standard for safe transport.
They give the dog privacy, as when they lie down, the only place with line-of-sight is the door. They have a solid roof & walls, so no drafts, no yanking stuff thru the mesh to rip it or chew it to shreds, no peeing thru the walls, I have a place to PUT THE LEASH overhead so i can grab it in an emergency to get the dog out, fast.

My crates serve as nightstands beside the bed when i'm housetraining a pup or a dog. My lamp, book, the dog's leash, etc, go on the roof. The crate is within arm's reach of the bed, & if a dog fusses for no good reason, i gently but firmly "burp" the crate, ROLL OVER, take a deep breath & SIGH... & 99 times of 100, the dog gets up, turns about, lies down, sighs, & falls to sleep. :)   Result!
The dog's right there if diarrhea strikes in the wee hours - i can hustle them out as soon as they alert me. Also, if i'm still doing overnite potty trips, the alarm sounds, i kill it, get up, coat over PJs, slip on boots or shoes, get out Pup, CARRY pup & leash outdoors, clip leash on, put Pup down, reward on the spot when s/he voids, & then back indoors, crate the pup, slip out of coat & shoes, & i'm back to bed... 10-mins elapsed, if that.

My dog's crates have kept them safely confined when visiting relatives, during airline flights, in the car, in 4-star hotels... it's a bedroom, it's a safe familiar space in a strange location, it's perfect for keeping an injured dog from re-injury, or a pup from gnawing live electric-cords, or swallowing the battery in the bathroom trashcan.
I have crates that are 15 to 20-YO, & they look 6-MO - the most-scuffed one went in the cargo hold of a plane, they aren't dainty in their loading / unloading process.

I'd never be without one - just in case, & especially for safe travel. ;)
 - terry

Terry Pride, member Truly Dog-Friendly
'dogs R dogs, wolves R wolves, & primates R us.' -  (™ 2007)

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