Electric Control Collars

[Bedlam]

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Saw one being used on a lab a few yrs ago,that was bad but

heard about one being used on a whippet.

is it just me who thinks this is the wrong way to teach/train a gentle breed such as the whippet

 

[dana]

if folk wanna use one of these barbaric collars then they should have to ware one for a few days before....and give me the control pad :rant:

 

[alfyn]

The sooner the bloody things are banned,the better :rant:

 

[Bedlam]

had a heated argument once with a pr**k in a hotel, spouting off how well he dog was doing after he kept zapping it.

the guy using it on a whippet is a pr**k as well in my book, if you cant train a whippet to come back and not wonder off with out using the normal way of kindness you shouldnt keep a dog

 

[Rae]

I've been driven to desperation with Leia (my lurcher) and her hunting, disobeadience and disappering for hours on end. I have tried every method of dog training for 3 years to no avail, nothing made a difference and she was destined to spend the rest of her life on her lead. I have used a 'barbaric' shock collar on her (yes I tested it on myself first) and it has given her back her freedom and she is a happier girlie for it. She is not scared of me, she does however listen to her recall commands now, and I can relax and enjoy walking her again. I dont think whippets/lurchers are so gentle, they are killers, capable of taking down deer and foxes, and covering a lot of ground very quickly, no ammount of click and treat is going to stop them when they are in hunt mode, and what if everyone decided to follow her as she is top bitch in the pack. I found that it stopped her going 'into the zone' where she would ignore commands, and it brought her straight back to listening to me. She wasnt rolling about in agony and it wasnt any where near the same response as when she's ran into an electric fence. It really is a shock, 'snap out of it', rather than painful. She's had less than 6 zaps, and it means she can have freedom, she can run and do as she wants, worth it in my opinion for this particular dog.

Having said that, I would never consider using it on any of my other (totally different) dogs, and I dont agree that they are so easily available and can be used by any moron. In my experience, and as a last resort it has made a big difference to Liea's life. I do not consider myself to be a cruel owner, and I think like many things in life, never say never till you've been in this situation yourself. I also think that more people have used one than will ever admit.

I dont expect anyone to agree with me, but not everyone that uses one is cruel just for the hell of it. Some of us were desperate and have tried everything else, if you are lucky enough to have deer free walks, very obeadient dogs, huge safe grounds and a dog that wasnt brought up by travellers to hunt then lucky you, but please bear in mind there can be some circumstances that they may have a use.

 

[Strike Whippets]

I've seen Leia in full flight and she really was a danger to herself, all wildlife but even worse as Rae said being top bitch she easily lead the others into trouble ......I work with dogs from trained police dogs, prison dogs, working dogs etc .... through to peoples pet dogs ...... I must say that over the years I have seen some dogs that really would benefit from a short shock .......at the end of the day these are dogs who have no sense of rationalization so when we have the hang up of giving them a shock (be it from a collar, clap, tap on the ass etc ....) they really don't hold it against us as all we are doing is interrupting the unwanted/unacceptable behavior :thumbsup: .....

 

[mally]

I've seen Leia in full flight and she really was a danger to herself, all wildlife but even worse as Rae said being top bitch she easily lead the others into trouble ......I work with dogs from trained police dogs, prison dogs, working dogs etc .... through to peoples pet dogs ...... I must say that over the years I have seen some dogs that really would benefit from a short shock .......at the end of the day these are dogs who have no sense of rationalization so when we have the hang up of giving them a shock (be it from a collar, clap, tap on the ass etc ....) they really don't hold it against us as all we are doing is interrupting the unwanted/unacceptable behavior  :thumbsup:   .....

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I also saw leia with my own eye's last september and i know the use of the collar has bought her alot more freedom, resulting in more relaxing walks for Rae. Leia couldn't be let off the lead very often before but now she has total freedom.

If used correctly and in the right circumstances, and when all other avenues of training have been tried the colloars really do work.

 

[bedlington]

If used correctly and in the right circumstances, and when all other avenues of training have been tried the colloars really do work.

Well said, and Rae when defending the use of ECC's. They are a tool, nothing more or less. A tool can't be barbaric, it requires a user to do that.

Given the choice, as I was years ago, of using one to stop stock chasing, or of losing the dog, I chose the collar. It took two days, about a dozen shocks if I remember correctly. For about a month I had to put a dummy collar on her, but eventually she stopped chasing regardless of which collar she was wearing. Job done.

Please don't go on about gentler, kinder methods, they had all be tried, everything that myself, my colleagues (a group of professional handlers), our vet and a couple of local farmers could think of had failed. It was my decision, I only wish I'd agreed sooner.

Little has changed except that the collars have got a lot more controllable. The one I used was either on or off, and pretty violent at that, I know because I tried it on myself. It seemed more to surprise the bitch than hurt her, which is more than I can say for myself.

I've used one since, to stop a young lurcher, not mine, getting the taste for stock chasing. It worked very quickly, I think in this case I think it simply reinforced the recall signal.

If all this makes me a prick, so be it...........

 

[dana]

im sorry but u will never change my view that these collars are barbaric and should be banned. if a person is not able to train and control a dog without causing it pain then they are not the correct owners for that dog.

i know i will prob be called now but its my opinion and i stand by it.

 

[mally]

im sorry but u will never change my view that these collars are barbaric and should be banned. if a person is not able to train and control a dog without causing it pain then they are not the correct owners for that dog.
i know i will prob be called now but its my opinion and i stand by it.

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If the collars are used correctly they don't cause pain, it's when you get idiots using them on too high a setting when it causes the dogs pain..

Have you seen one of these collars being used correctly??????

 

[AnnSa]

I've never seen the collars used, and i see that a lot of

people actually try them out on themselves before

using them on their dogs and state that they don't hurt.

But i honestly don't know if i could use one on the girls.

 

I just don't understand how they work, if they don't hurt,

they must at least startle the dog, so how do you know

the dog will run back to you and not run the other way

as it's scared or whatever it feels when you activate the

collar.

 

[Bedlam]

Im with Dana on this one, if you cant control a dog with out out using short cuts

you aint fit to own one.

ive run 6 terriers and control them around stock and people and never needed one.

 

[Rae]

I've never seen the collars used, and i see that a lot ofpeople actually try them out on themselves before

using them on their dogs and state that they don't hurt.

But i honestly don't know if i could use one on the girls.

 

I just don't understand how they work, if they don't hurt,

they must at least startle the dog, so how do you know

the dog will run back to you and not run the other way

as it's scared or whatever it feels when you activate the

collar.

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I couldnt use it on any of my other dogs either Anne, but for Leia it was that or stay on a lead forever, she is a different kettle of fish to the rest of them totally. It does cause a startle affect, and you are right, you have to really know your dog to know that it will run back to you, and not off into the distance.

I dont give a hoot what anyone thinks of me, go ahead and judge whether I'm fit to own a dog based solely on the fact I have used a collar on Leia and ignore the fact that they get 3 off lead walks every day rain or shine, that they get a barf diet, that they are never left in kennels we take them on holiday with us or we don't go, I could go on but I'm not going to justify myself to anyone. Personally I think it shows how narrowminded some folk are. I thought I'd never use one, but I'm big enough to accept that I changed my mind. I knew I'd get flack for admitting to using one, we all do what we think is best for our dogs and every day when I see her running free and enjoying herself I know I did the right thing for her.

I dont see it as a 'short cut' however, I'd owned Leia and tried other training methods for 3 years before I used it, as a last resort.

 

[AnnSa]

So for Leia it was a good thing, im glad you finally

found a way to sort her out and give her some

freedom :thumbsup:

 

How did you go about it, did you use it for the first

time in an enclosed area in case she bolted. And

then do you go out somewhere more open and use

it if she went to far away.

 

[bertha]

I had a chat with a lady at a local agricultural show, she told me she used one on her whippet because she started chasing stock and going of hunting deer. She said a game keeper lent her one and showed her how to use it. Her bitch is now allowed to run free and her owner is no longer on edge wondering where her whippet was.

Used correctly in extreme circumstance, they are okay. Surely it is better to do this than condemn a whippet to be leashed at all times?

I use a spray collar on my greyhound because she started barking, it stopped her and now if she starts again, I put the collar on switched off, she still thinks it's on and doesn't bark.

 

[Strike Whippets]

On Raes behalf I know that she was really worried about using the collar ......as I said earlier Leia was a danger to herself and the rest of the pack .....She has a VERY strong hunting instinct that was encouraged by her original owners ....... I know Rae tried EVERY method of re-training Leia, but to no avail ....... The collar was the last resort and it worked .....a quick zap at the right time interrupted the unwanted behavior ......This probably SAVED Leia's life .....We can all sit there and judge, I see dogs on a daily basis that are badly trained and others that its just them and their temperaments, when dealing with them we have to treat each one differently .....not all dogs respond to the softly softly training methods as they will see you as weak, not all would cope with harsh training ....... Anyway if I thought Rae was such a bad owner I'd never have let her have two pups from me .... (Even if one is Spidey hey hun xx :huggles: :lol: )

 

[Rae]

In reply to Annsa:

That would have been sensible, but I'd put alot of work into training her and she only ignored me when she was ready to go off hunting so I had to wait until she was about to go anyway, (otherwise I would have used it for the hell of it, she wouldnt have tried to run off in an enclosed space if that makes sense), when there was nothing to loose it would either work or it wouldn't, and she was going to go anyway. (I did know she'd come straight back as she did when she ran into an electric fence - they are all mammy's girls at heart ). (It was on a low setting obviously)

It just stopped her, made her listen, and she came straight to me. There is a warning buzzer that you sound before you use it, so that in future the warning sound alone is enough to get them to concentrate again.

And Mrs Strike Whippets, as for Spidey (w00t) we love him dearly tho :wub:

 

[Verity Veritas]

Cruel, barbaric, never justifiable under any circumstances.

 

[Strike Whippets]

Cruel, barbaric, never justifiable under any circumstances.

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Great this is your first post :unsure: ...... Elaborate as to why you feel this way ..... After years of working with dogs that are rescues, misfits or just complete sods .....on a few occasions these collars would have really made a difference ...... We aren't talking the American electric collars btw, just the bog standard English ones ....

 

[June Jonigk]

I have moved this topic to general dog discussion, as it was causing offence to working and coursing people.