Endorse Or Ntot ?????

[saraquele]

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quote=June Jonigk,Apr 7 2008, 07:40 PM]

Well, I am a genuine dog lover -and certainly no puppy farmer! but i wouldn't buy an endorsed puppy (despite the fact that i do not wish to breed and this is never likely to change.)
So why does this make a difference to me? Because when I take on an animal, I take on full responsibility for him/her, and for me that means being able to take all decisions on his/her behalf. If I couldn't make all of those decisions, then the animal wouldn't feel like they were really mine; if they are not properly mine it would affect the closeness of our bond.

Of course, i have no problem with breeders choosing to endorse, but I would not have a puppy from them. I think this is valid, and not at all 'farmerish'

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I fully agree with the above post. I would hope that anyone I bought a puppy from would either know me and the care my whippets have, or would take a recommendation from someone else who knew me. Once a puppy is mine - it is just that mine :thumbsup: and I would want to take full responsibility for it's welfare.

I think the fact is that most'breeders' (I'm talking of big breeders here) breed so many that they don't always know the buyer personally, or where they are going to, so it's easier to slap a restriction on, than keep a check on how the pups are doing. This isn't a criticism of any breeders, just a fact - if they sell so many puppies, they couldn't possibly be on the phone to all the owners checking to see how they're doing - there just aren't enough hours in the day. Some breeders in fact never contact the puppy purchaser ever this has been relayed to me on many an occasion. This is one drawback of overbreeding like we're seeing at the moment.

I agree with endorsements if there is a problem healthwise, but then the pups should be sold at a lesser price :thumbsup:

Just a thought - what better way to ensure your supply of puppies are in demand, than to deny anyone else the chance of breeding their own

Now, I know my comments are going to upset some people, but that is not my intention - I am just stating my opinions on what is a very controversial, and interesting topic :thumbsup:

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I find your above post very interesting as it is my belief that most breeders big or otherwise don't endorse,in fact I know of very few who do. So have you any actual evidence that substantiates your opinion?

I am just rather curious.

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i can see where you are coming from as in there ARE breeders who do breed so many puppies that i also dont think they couldnt keep track of them all, i do however think that most litter adverts ive seen state no endorsements or dont say if they have or havent , some people put on that the pups are endorsed , i dont think there is hard and fast evidence one way or another about how many people do or do not endorse .

i think its each persons opinion and no one is right or wrong and i thank you all for putting your views across , the reasons you choose to or not are all valid :thumbsup:

 

[June Jonigk]

quote=June Jonigk,Apr 7 2008, 07:40 PM]

Well, I am a genuine dog lover -and certainly no puppy farmer! but i wouldn't buy an endorsed puppy (despite the fact that i do not wish to breed and this is never likely to change.)
So why does this make a difference to me? Because when I take on an animal, I take on full responsibility for him/her, and for me that means being able to take all decisions on his/her behalf. If I couldn't make all of those decisions, then the animal wouldn't feel like they were really mine; if they are not properly mine it would affect the closeness of our bond.

Of course, i have no problem with breeders choosing to endorse, but I would not have a puppy from them. I think this is valid, and not at all 'farmerish'

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I fully agree with the above post. I would hope that anyone I bought a puppy from would either know me and the care my whippets have, or would take a recommendation from someone else who knew me. Once a puppy is mine - it is just that mine :thumbsup: and I would want to take full responsibility for it's welfare.

I think the fact is that most'breeders' (I'm talking of big breeders here) breed so many that they don't always know the buyer personally, or where they are going to, so it's easier to slap a restriction on, than keep a check on how the pups are doing. This isn't a criticism of any breeders, just a fact - if they sell so many puppies, they couldn't possibly be on the phone to all the owners checking to see how they're doing - there just aren't enough hours in the day. Some breeders in fact never contact the puppy purchaser ever this has been relayed to me on many an occasion. This is one drawback of overbreeding like we're seeing at the moment.

I agree with endorsements if there is a problem healthwise, but then the pups should be sold at a lesser price :thumbsup:

Just a thought - what better way to ensure your supply of puppies are in demand, than to deny anyone else the chance of breeding their own

Now, I know my comments are going to upset some people, but that is not my intention - I am just stating my opinions on what is a very controversial, and interesting topic :thumbsup:

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I find your above post very interesting as it is my belief that most breeders big or otherwise don't endorse,in fact I know of very few who do. So have you any actual evidence that substantiates your opinion?

I am just rather curious.

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i can see where you are coming from as in there ARE breeders who do breed so many puppies that i also dont think they couldnt keep track of them all, i do however think that most litter adverts ive seen state no endorsements or dont say if they have or havent , some people put on that the pups are endorsed , i dont think there is hard and fast evidence one way or another about how many people do or do not endorse .

i think its each persons opinion and no one is right or wrong and i thank you all for putting your views across , the reasons you choose to or not are all valid :thumbsup:

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Thanks for that Saraquele, and also 05whippet Mossbawnhill. It's good to know that you know where your puppies have gone.

I just think the big breeders who charge huge prices for pups, and endorse and sell to people they don't know, are keeping control of that pup for life. I don't believe they have a right to do that? You may say its to stop overbreeding - but they are the ones doing all the breeding in the first place :wacko: I can only go from my own feelings, but if I bought in a pup, and paid a huge price for it, I would expect to have complete control of its future. In my view, if a pup is endorsed, it should come at a much lesser price. Who is to say in the future how well it might turn out - how would a newcomer in showing feel if they bought a pup and it did well, only to be told that they couldn't breed from it by someone else :unsure: If I decided I wanted to breed from it in the future, I wouldn't want to have to ask someone elses permission - and I think it's a bit of a control freaky idea.

I do believe some of you are endorsing because you care - and I appreciate that - thats one thing us K9ers have in common, that we care for our dogs.

I just think of it as intrusion of my rights as a human being, to have the choice taken away from me.

All this is by the by because I will never buy from a 'breeder'. If I bought a puppy it would be from someone within racing circles, and we don't have anyone as far as I know who would ever think of such an idea. I'd go so far as to say if racing pups were for sale with endorsements - no one would buy them :thumbsup:

Just because I disagree with it, doesn't mean anyone should stop doing it - it's just my opinion, and I don't expect everyone to think the same :thumbsup:

The puppy farmers we hear about are generally the type who sell without registration anyway - or those who sell them as a pedigree to people who don't know better, and all they get is a written out pedigree which means zilch :wacko: The amount of people who used to come in to our vets and say they had a pedigree pup, but no registration was unbelieveable

BTW it's nice that we can have a conversation and listen to each others views without anyone getting personal. I accept all of your views as valid, as everyone is entitled to their own in my view :thumbsup:

 

[saraquele]

its harder on here as we all care for our dogs so wouldnt exploit them wether they are endorsed or not . we all know what idiots are out there :rant: and if they intend on breeding a litter they will , endorsing only stops the pups being registerd it dosent stop the bitches being exploited . i think 98% of people on here would never do anything that isnt in the best interest of there dogs and i too think its good we can chat about things without it getting heated :cheers:

 

[kris]

just think the big breeders who charge huge prices for pups, and endorse and sell to people they don't know, are keeping control of that pup for life. I don't believe they have a right to do that? You may say its to stop overbreeding - but they are the ones doing all the breeding in the first place I can only go from my own feelings, but if I bought in a pup, and paid a huge price for it, I would expect to have complete control of its future.

i dont think its the big breeders who do this as much as the smaller breeders who love their pups and dont want them to be exploited.just wondering why you think that its the big breeders who do this and not the smaller breeders?i didnt charge huge prices either and yet i endorsed.i no longer breed anything now and havent for years but if i did id still endorse not to be shown,bred from or exported.if the pup was bought as a show dog then id lift the endorsement when the pup was seen to be good enough,and of course lift the endorsement when they wanted to breed after having discussions with them.you can easily lift an endorsement but you cant put one on a dog after its left you and the owner has the papers and theres times when you will wish you had done so. :thumbsup: the reason i started to do this is mainly cos of a couple who bought a bitch from me years ago (before i started to endorse)and told me after the fact that theyd mated it to a certain dog which filled me with horror(as i knew this particular dog and the line he came from)as it turned out none of the litter lived but i was so upset at what they had done that i decided then and there to endorse.on another occasion another breeder whom i wouldnt sell a dog of my breeding to got a total stranger to come and buy a bitch from me and it was then immediately transferred over to this breeder.(i was told later that the man was paid to come and buy one of my dogs) :angry: yes its a control thing but if ive invested many years of hard work building up a bloodline im dammed if ill turn it over to a complete novice to try to ruin overnight,and if ive invested so much time ,money and care into building up a line why shouldnt i retain a certain amount of control over the dog or bitches breeding future?.you may say that its to stop other people breeding and yes it is.i dont want someone mating one of my bitches to a dog thats unsuitable and with no consultation from me as noone knows my line better than i do.as the breeder im there to give help and advice for the rest of that pups life.if thats control then yes im a control freak.i want to make sure my dogs are well looked after and that the owner would tell me about something so big as mating one of my bitches and breeding a litter from her.we all (i think) know certain lines we wouldnt use for one reason or another ie temperament, health problems etc etc so it can be very upsetting and annoying when someone decides they know better than you and mates one of your precious dogs to this line.trust me if it happened to you you would then start to endorse!i think in life we react to the forces around us and if we dont endorse its cos nothing has happened to us to make us think we ought to do so.but when something does happen then you start to take stock and change your mind and think maybe its time you did retain some control over what dog your bitches are mated to or vice versa.i also know a lady in another breed who sold a puppy to a very nice couple whom it later turned out was buying pups in the uk for shipping over to hong kong.the upset this poor woman went through to try to get her toy poodles back was awful and i knew if i bred a dog and it was taken out of the country for breeding that i couldnt have any control over how often it was bred etc so decided to stop any exports unless i was doing the exporting myself,and could get the owners checked out.no you cant stop them exporting it but if its being bought for breeding then your pup is less valuable to a foreign breeder than one that comes with all its kc papers.this is just my opinion but its based on my experience.different people will have had different experiences so i wouldnt expect them to neccessarily agree with me

 

[posh totty]

i wouldnt endorse if i felt something i bred wasnt suitable to be bred from id get the person to sign a neuter contract and withhold the reg paper until such op was done , this would all be done in writing in front of a third party, and id also sign that reg papers would be handed over on evidence of such op

however my puppy contracts do request spey neuter anyway?

dad and i`s last litter was endorsed against export as you hear horror stories of persons using pedigree dogs as a way of laundring drug money!!! and often these dogs are exported

i also ask for a utilty bill to prove they are whom they say they are and are in fact at that address, another thing ive done is ask for a vet reference :thumbsup:

if someone is adamant they will breed papers mean nothing they will just sell them without papers or use that blooming dog lovers thingy!!! :rant:

i hope to have my first litter next year , the ones before are dads bitches reg in joint names which ive done under his guidence , i have watched him breed his lurchers and terriers for years and gained a lot of knowledge seeing who is right and wrong for your dogs and i am glad i had someone to caring to guide me , not saying mistakes havent een made along the years ut a good solid foundation is a good start , the breeders i have since purchased from i have seen different ways and learnt from that too

i have a italian boy whom is endorsed and im glad , when i get asked at shows to use him its then a very simple no he is endorsed :thumbsup: however i do know that if i wanted it lifted and the bitch was right then my breeder has enough faith and trust in me that she would guide me :thumbsup:

robbie the whippet is not endorsed and lesley knows he has a loving lifetime home and i wouldnt put him to anything i felt wasnt right :thumbsup:

 

[beaker]

i've only bred 1 litter of whippets and in hindsight i wish i'd endorsed my pups,

i was fooled into thinking one of my pups was going to an experienced loving whippet home, i'd visited their house, saw pictures of dogs in they owned years back, saw all the toys and puppy stuff they had for it, talked to them at length, thought they were lovely people. i later discovered, that this wasn't their house at all but a friends,those weren't my pups toys, that they lived in a total s**t hole and my pup had been bought with the intention of breeding "much sought after blue pups" :rant:

if i could turn back time, i deffinitely would

ok i accept the argument that that many people feel that once they have bought a pup it is their property, that the breeder has no say in what goes with the pup and they are of course technically right, they may actually be very nice people who'll love the pup i've bred for the rest of life but i'd rather they didn't have one of my precious pups than compromise and risk my babies being exploited.

i suspect that most people who have strong feelings in favour of endorsing have probably suffered heartache over an unendorsed puppy in the past.

there are seemingly more and more adverts for "breeding pairs" not just in whippets but many breeds, i wonder how many of these poor buggers have a breeder wishing they had ticked a couple of boxes when they registered them.

it's very easy for a breeder to lift an endorsement later and deffinitely a damn sight easier than turning back time

 

[05whippet]

i've only bred 1 litter of whippets and in hindsight i wish i'd endorsed my pups,
i was fooled into thinking one of my pups was going to an experienced loving whippet home, i'd visited their house, saw pictures of dogs in they owned years back, saw all the toys and puppy stuff they had for it, talked to them at length, thought they were lovely people. i later discovered, that this wasn't their house at all but a friends,those weren't my pups toys, that they lived in a total s**t hole and my pup had been bought with the intention of breeding "much sought after blue pups"  :rant:  

if i could turn back time, i deffinitely would

ok i accept the argument that that many people feel that once they have bought a pup it is their property, that the breeder has no say in what goes with the pup and they are of course technically right, they may actually be very nice people who'll love the pup i've bred for the rest of life but i'd rather they didn't have one of my precious pups than compromise and risk my babies being exploited.

i suspect that most people who have strong feelings in favour of endorsing have probably suffered heartache over an unendorsed puppy in the past.

there are seemingly more and more adverts for "breeding pairs" not just in whippets but many breeds, i wonder how many of these poor buggers have a breeder wishing they had ticked a couple of boxes when they registered them.

it's very easy for a breeder to lift an endorsement later and deffinitely a damn sight easier than turning back time

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An excellent post highlighting just why it is that I endorse. :thumbsup: I too would rather lose a few good homes through endorsing than have any of my puppies fall into the wrong hands and suffer. We all want what is best for them and for me this is an added extra where I can try and make sure that they have what they deserve....the best home in the world.

 

[masta]

i have no problem with endorsing and as stated several times "they dont' have to buy them do they or no ones twisting their arm" which is correct although i dread a situation were the" Pet buyers" vote with their feet and go elsewere what happens to the large surplus of show breeder pups then? i do beleive there should be a price differential between endorsed and open ie if they are being sold as pets and endorsed why pay show prices? ok if they are sold as endorsed with the proviso that if they make show quality the breeder allows registration why not charge a fee for reg maybe £200.00-£250.00 having charged £200 - £250 for the orginal sale, the buyer gets a pet pup price and has to pay the show premium if the breeder is in agreement to it being endorsed, gives the breeder chance to assess the dog 12-18 months on and if not happy on any grounds be it quality or condition to refuse a win - win situation

 

[saraquele]

i have no problem with endorsing and as stated several times "they dont' have to buy them do they or no ones twisting their arm" which is correct although i dread a situation were the" Pet buyers" vote with their feet and go elsewere what happens to the large surplus of show breeder pups then? i do beleive there should be a price differential between endorsed and open ie if they are being sold as pets and endorsed why pay show prices? ok if they are sold as endorsed with the proviso that if they make show quality the breeder allows registration why not charge a fee for reg maybe £200.00-£250.00 having charged £200 - £250 for the orginal sale, the buyer gets a pet pup price and has to pay the show premium if the breeder is in agreement to it being endorsed, gives the breeder chance to assess the dog 12-18 months on and if not happy on any grounds be it quality or condition to refuse a win - win situation

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i dont think "pet" or "show potential " puppies cost any more or less to rear so i dont think "pet" puppies should be sold for any less than the other puppies .

i dont have a problem with people endorsing , in a lot of ways i agree with it , i would rather endorse than letting it get into the wrong hands :huggles: but i dont think there should be any difference in price :huggles:

 

[masta]

i have no problem with endorsing and as stated several times "they dont' have to buy them do they or no ones twisting their arm" which is correct although i dread a situation were the" Pet buyers" vote with their feet and go elsewere what happens to the large surplus of show breeder pups then? i do beleive there should be a price differential between endorsed and open ie if they are being sold as pets and endorsed why pay show prices? ok if they are sold as endorsed with the proviso that if they make show quality the breeder allows registration why not charge a fee for reg maybe £200.00-£250.00 having charged £200 - £250 for the orginal sale, the buyer gets a pet pup price and has to pay the show premium if the breeder is in agreement to it being endorsed, gives the breeder chance to assess the dog 12-18 months on and if not happy on any grounds be it quality or condition to refuse a win - win situation

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i dont think "pet" or "show potential " puppies cost any more or less to rear so i dont think "pet" puppies should be sold for any less than the other puppies .

i dont have a problem with people endorsing , in a lot of ways i agree with it , i would rather endorse than letting it get into the wrong hands :huggles: but i dont think there should be any difference in price :huggles:

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i would think that is the view of most breeders, what im suggesting is a system that is fair to all involved i would not expect to pay a premium price for something that is limited but then i suppose i personally would'nt buy a pup from a show breeder if i specifially wanted a pet

 

[kris]

a breeder puts as much hard work,research and thought into a pet pup as a show pup therefore me personally id not alter the charge and i didnt charge more for a show dog than a pet dog.they have the same pedigree, the same quality of care,the same feeding, testing and scoring of the parents for inheirited defects and cost the same to rear.also included in the price but which is something that you cant put down on paper is the fact that id be there with help and advice about anything and everything for my puppy buyers as in my opinion the sale didnt end with the purchase, that was just the start.hopefully of a friendship and that the owners would feel they could contact me about any worries or advice they needed.however many years down the line it was.they must have been happy with the puppy and the service they received because we still get enquiries for pups from people who had dogs off us years ago who have since died and they want to get another dog of our breeding.i disagree with what masta is saying though in that most pet buyers have no intention of breeding so they dont mind a puppy being endorsed.(well ive never had any negative feedback about it and if anything i think they know you care about your dogs and that you dont want them ending up as backyard breeders stock,your dogs are looked on as being valuable in every sense and are looked after accordingly)its mainly the show people who want papers and want to be able to breed.pet people in my experience want to leave breeding in the hands of people who know what theyre doing.they dont usually want to breed dogs thats why theyre buying a pet.they just want a beautiful,well bred, healthy, well adjusted companion for the family.

 

[moonlake]

I don't want to start the spay/neuter argument here but I only sell bitches to people who have good reason to want them i.e. they are already breeders or the whippets they already have are bitches (if they have had them for years without wanting to breed from them, I think it unlikely that they are going to want to start with mine but if they do decide to change the habit of a lifetime, they know I am available to help).  This means my bitch puppies sometimes hang around a bit longer than the dogs as very few people meet my criteria for everything but it hasn't been a problem and while I am not always happy about the dogs they sometimes get mated to, their puppies go to loving homes and I am such a poor chooser of stud dogs myself, I don't feel I can criticise.

i can kind of see where you are coming from with this although i find it slightly unfair.

I am 22 and have never had a dog of my own, any members of my family who have had dogs have always had bitches as they seem to think they have a better nature whether this be ture or not it makes no difference,

but when we decided we wanted a dog, we agreed a bitch would be best, as this is what i am used to (through familys dogs) and also my partner has always had bitches.

but what you are saying is because i do not have the years behind me that others have, to have had owned bitches of my own for 10years or so, and becuse as it would be my first dog their is no way i could be an established breeder, and i only want a bitch for pure preference for a bitch, i would not be eligible for a bitch from you?

it really make no difference ither way i am just interested to know if those are your rules or you would make ecseptions for people like me who are just getting their first dog?

:thumbsup:

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Yes, there are exceptions but by and large, I try to persuade people getting their first whippet to have a dog because in my opinion, they make better single pets. If I had to live somewhere I could have only one dog, it would definitely be a male whippet. I won't go into the reasons here - they are on my website www.moonlake.co.uk under breed guide. (The same one I wrote for the champdogs site). I absolutely agree that in many breeds, male dogs are an absolute pain but in whippets, you haven't had the full whippet experience until you have owned a male :huggles:

Gay

www.moonlake.co.uk

 

[Seraphina]

i have no problem with endorsing and as stated several times "they dont' have to buy them do they or no ones twisting their arm" which is correct although i dread a situation were the" Pet buyers" vote with their feet and go elsewere what happens to the large surplus of show breeder pups then? i do beleive there should be a price differential between endorsed and open ie if they are being sold as pets and endorsed why pay show prices? ok if they are sold as endorsed with the proviso that if they make show quality the breeder allows registration why not charge a fee for reg maybe £200.00-£250.00 having charged £200 - £250 for the orginal sale, the buyer gets a pet pup price and has to pay the show premium if the breeder is in agreement to it being endorsed, gives the breeder chance to assess the dog 12-18 months on and if not happy on any grounds be it quality or condition to refuse a win - win situation

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I set my price according to the cost of rearing the pups, and that is the same for show potential pup or pet puppy. One of the first things I tell pet buyers is that the puppy comes vaccinated, microchipped and with Limited Register papers, which means it cannot be used for showing or breeding. I have never had a person walking away at that point.

I do not know what the KC rules are in UK, but here it is against our regulations to ask for extra money for papers.

 

[minion]

An intresting topic.

I do not agree with endorsing pups. If you don't feel sure about who you are selling a pup to then dont sell it - trust your instincts. However, if you feel the person is suitable to buy a pup from you then I think you have no right to stop them from breeding from the pup.

A lot of replies mention bloodlines etc which to me says that alot of people on here breed and keep a pup back (I have no problems with that) so do they endorse every pup other than the one the keep or can the breeder not breed from a pup they have bred as the whole litter is endorsed?

Why can you keep a pup back and breed from it but the owner of a litter mate can not?

Perhaps I am missing something here but it seems like double standards to me.

To be honest, I think the kennel club has ruined far to many dogs anyway. I',m glad alot of whippet owners still remember what whippets were bred for - To run, not look nice. The kennel club has alot to answer for IMO. Fortunatly there are still alot of good coursing and racing lines out there producing whippets that can actually run.

 

[fourpaws]

[ To be honest, I think the kennel club has ruined far to many dogs anyway. I',m glad alot of whippet owners still remember what whippets were bred for - To run, not look nice. The kennel club has alot to answer for IMO. Fortunatly there are still alot of good coursing and racing lines out there producing whippets that can actually run.

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So Minion do you think that whippets that look nice cannot run? I think you will find that a whippet that looks good can actually run.

 

[seaspot_run]

The one thing that this thread has taught me is that words that mean one thing in the UK have a very different meaning in the USA.

To "endorse" here would mean to back wholeheartedly as being the BEST. What you Brits call "endorsing" we here in the USA call selling on "limited registration", indicating that we lack confidence in either the breeding quality of the pup or the breeding ethics or ability of the purchaser.

:wacko:

Of course, here, a bonnet is just a hat, and a bobby is a hairpin.

 

[Seraphina]

I do not agree with endorsing pups. If you don't feel sure about who you are selling a pup to then dont sell it - trust your instincts. However, if you feel the person is suitable to buy a pup from you then I think you have no right to stop them from breeding from the pup.

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I have no problems if somebody would want to buy a pup to show and then decide they want to start their own breeding program. But I certainly have the right to say that some pups will not be bred from, and none would be allowed to produce litters just for the sake of it. Actually, breeder have the right to stipulate whatever conditions they wish, there is no reason for breeder not to have a contract asking that the dog will only sleep on pink cushion, it is up to the buyer to accept or not.

Why can you keep a pup back and breed from it but the owner of a litter mate can not?
Perhaps I am missing something here but it seems like double standards to me.

If everybody who bought a bitch decided to breed from her we all would be up to our knees in Whippets. In each litter some are slightly better than others, and only the best should be bred.

 

[parnew]

I do not agree with endorsing pups. If you don't feel sure about who you are selling a pup to then dont sell it - trust your instincts. However, if you feel the person is suitable to buy a pup from you then I think you have no right to stop them from breeding from the pup.

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I have no problems if somebody would want to buy a pup to show and then decide they want to start their own breeding program. But I certainly have the right to say that some pups will not be bred from, and none would be allowed to produce litters just for the sake of it. Actually, breeder have the right to stipulate whatever conditions they wish, there is no reason for breeder not to have a contract asking that the dog will only sleep on pink cushion, it is up to the buyer to accept or not.

Why can you keep a pup back and breed from it but the owner of a litter mate can not?
Perhaps I am missing something here but it seems like double standards to me.

If everybody who bought a bitch decided to breed from her we all would be up to our knees in Whippets. In each litter some are slightly better than others, and only the best should be bred.

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I don't put any contracts on puppies, If you buy a dog you must be givin the papers on M/R or L/R, and we don't own the breed. If people wish to breed a litter thats fine but as breeders we should work with the new owners to find a dog that suits.

Yes we should bred form the best but how many times do you see the best show bitch of the litter produce nothing and a lesser litter sister throw better !! or you palce a bitch in a pet home to find in two years shes better that the one you kept. If you can encourage a new owner to bred later down the track (if they wish) with a dog you have picked for them then you are helping the breed grow and may just get them into showing or racing and give us a hobby to go on with. Many a whippet is shipped off to a pet home with pages of contracts telling the new owner what to do and when to do it after they have payed good money. This is turning people away from showing and so on and helping back yard breeders with no contracts to sell pups. The breed comps will die a slow death if we don't grow the breed with or new owners, think of the breed and all the people not just the few dollars that we get for the left overs of our litters of show dogs.

Each breeder will do as they feel is right, with our whippets intrests at heart I'm sure.... :thumbsup:

 

[saraquele]

i think its the TYPE of person wanting to breed rather than just the breeding side of things .

for example . you sell a show potential puppy to a lovely family , they campaign it , prehaps not to its title but good enough to aquire some good awards and to hold its own in the ring or field / track whatever , then the new family want a litter off her , they go back to the breeder , discuss pros and cons , the sire to be used etc , they intend to carry on there blood line with a new pup from the bitch , to me i would have no problem at all with that .

eg no 2 , again you sell a bitch pup to someone , they walk it now and again , but dont do much else , then they just have a litter every year off her for the ££££

they dont care much about what she produces or where the pups go to , i would be heartbroken .

ive worked in rescue for years and yes you can 99% of the time trust your instinct but there are times when anyone can misjudge someone , they can tell you what you want to hear , as mentioned in an earlier post they can even show you someone elses home , or buy then give straight to some one else .

it is very difficult and by no means black or white , there is a huge grey area in the middle .

if we knew that the first example set out above would be the case then endorsing would not need to be done at all but i think that scenario is in the minority these days