Endorsements

[Jan Doherty]

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Under my post last night I made mention of people specifically putting on their adverts that the Puppies were being sold without endorsements. I don’t think I have heard of Whippet folk putting endorsements on puppies but certainly in Iggies it is very common.

Placing endorsements on the puppies has absolutely nothing to do with the price of the puppy or about who should or shouldn’t have an Iggie.

There are two types of endorsement that can be placed on the Kennel Club papers. The first one stops the issue of an export pedigree. There was a time not so many years ago when a very unscrupulous person would go to breeders establishments and take his “family” with him to buy a pet. The next thing the breeder knew the puppy would show up in the Breed record supplement as having been sold abroad. The upshot was he got a puppy at pet price and then sold it at a premium price. Also some of the countries he was selling to had an extremely poor record for care of animals and god only knows what happened to them all.

The second endorsement is Progeny not eligible for registration and is the type of endorsement I referred in my previous post. This means what it says on the tin that no progeny can be registered from that dog or bitch. This is the only way that a breeder can safeguard a puppy not landing in the hands of the less scrupulous. People wrongly assume that it is mainly used for bitches but when you think about it a dog is capable of siring more puppies in his lifetime than a bitch will have puppies. Some bloodlines have gone to a lot of time and money to import quality dogs from abroad to broaden the gene pool. That together with clever breeding and a desire to produce healthy well balanced puppies makes an endorsement a peace of mind factor as well as taking responsibility for the future of the breed and for your particular bloodlines. And no it is not being elitist or saying you cant buy a puppy from me

Endorsements should be discussed with prospective owners and if it really is only a pet they are after then I don’t see why it should be a problem. If all is well and remains well endorsements can be lifted.

 

[Paul W]

Very well said. I'm not an owner of a pedigree dog myself but can understand breeders of any breed of dog wanting to protect, if thats the right word, their line. If they've done particularly well in the ring, I can see they wouldn't want "Joe Public" breeding from their lines and advertising them with reference to all the show winning dogs in its pedigree. Hope that sounds right. On the other hand someone out to simply make money will surely breed unregistered. Would it be better to loan the pup with a contract rather than sell. I'm no expert on law but know this goes on with other animals. I even know a farmer that contracts his bulls out but remains the owner. Just my thoughts of course. :cheers:

 

[June Jonigk]

Nice to see some constructive posts in this section. You're right, I've never heard of whippets being sold with endorsements - I'm sure some are in showing circles, but certainly not in racing. It is almost expected that if the dog turns out to be super speedy, then someone will want to use it at stud, and likewise if a bitch does well, she will more than likely be bred from.

Personally, I would never consider buying a pup with endorsements, but that's just my personal preference. I can understand where you Iggy people are coming from, but by being so stand offish sometimes about new people wanting to get into the Iggy world, is either turning them away altogether, or pushing them towards the route you all seem to frown upon.

Please don't take this the wrong way - you have to let people have their own opinions without always shouting them down for being wrong. We can't all be right all of the time, and a little understanding of how others might feel or have a view about, is about being a good human being. As long as we have views without insulting others, they can make for good reading :thumbsup:

 

[AnnSa]

I know this is the iggy section but just wanted to add

that whippets are sold with endorsements June. One

of my girls has one on her papers

 

[Mark Roberts]

Nice to see some constructive posts in this section.  You're right, I've never heard of whippets being sold with endorsements - I'm sure some are in showing circles, but certainly not in racing.  It is almost expected that if the dog turns out to be super speedy, then someone will want to use it at stud, and likewise if a bitch does well, she will more than likely be bred from.

any bitch pups (whippets) we breed will be endorsed with "progeny not elegible for registration" this endorsment will be removed once they reach 3 years old, the reason we are endorsing the bitch's is to try and stop them being bred of to young.

 

[Jan Doherty]

That is really interesting Mark and it will also safeguard you if the owners dont quite turn to be how they portrayed themselves originally when they bought the bitch.

I think alround the endorsemnets are a psoitive thing but the new owners must know about them or they have can them overturned by the Kennel Club. The only way you can prove they knew is to use a signed contract.

 

[Paul W]

Nice to see some constructive posts in this section.  You're right, I've never heard of whippets being sold with endorsements - I'm sure some are in showing circles, but certainly not in racing.  It is almost expected that if the dog turns out to be super speedy, then someone will want to use it at stud, and likewise if a bitch does well, she will more than likely be bred from.

any bitch pups (whippets) we breed will be endorsed with "progeny not elegible for registration" this endorsment will be removed once they reach 3 years old, the reason we are endorsing the bitch's is to try and stop them being bred of to young.

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Also this would be enough time for the breeder to see if the puppy had turned out to be a specimen worth breeding from. Then they could ok the lifting or keep it in place. Well said.

 

[jayp]

That is really interesting Mark and it will also safeguard you if the owners dont quite turn to be how  they portrayed themselves originally when they bought the bitch.
I think alround the endorsemnets are a psoitive thing but the new owners must know about them or they have can them overturned by the Kennel Club. The only way you can prove they knew is to use a signed contract.

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we endorsed all our last litter, new owners were fine about it and it will be easily lifted in the right circumstances I know it dosnt stop them breeding but does mean less profitable for unregistered pups Jan

 

[Mark Roberts]

That is really interesting Mark and it will also safeguard you if the owners dont quite turn to be how  they portrayed themselves originally when they bought the bitch.
I think alround the endorsemnets are a psoitive thing but the new owners must know about them or they have can them overturned by the Kennel Club. The only way you can prove they knew is to use a signed contract.

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Thats my intention to make up a letter that new owners have to sign stating they have agreed to the endorsment before they collect the pup.

once a bitch reaches 3 years old we would then contact the kennel club and have the endorsment removed.

 

[Paul W]

I'd never seen or heard of an Italian Greyhound before I joined this site. Reading through past posts I can see people are very protective and passionate about them. With prices now approching £2000 do you think unregistered pups from endorsed parents with still fetch silly sums of money. I wouldn't mind betting if you were to advertise Italian greyhounds for £800/£1000 without papers they would sell. God knows what would happen if an Italian greyhound took best in show at Crufts. Can you imagine the demand and prices. The best in show every year seems to be the must have dog for months after. :wacko:

 

[Paula Roberts]

I have heard that unregisterd ones can go for £800+.

 

[Paul W]

That is really interesting Mark and it will also safeguard you if the owners dont quite turn to be how  they portrayed themselves originally when they bought the bitch.
I think alround the endorsemnets are a psoitive thing but the new owners must know about them or they have can them overturned by the Kennel Club. The only way you can prove they knew is to use a signed contract.

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Thats my intention to make up a letter that new owners have to sign stating they have agreed to the endorsment before they collect the pup.

once a bitch reaches 3 years old we would then contact the kennel club and have the endorsment removed.

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Obviously only if they make the grade I would think.

 

[beaker]

That is really interesting Mark and it will also safeguard you if the owners dont quite turn to be how  they portrayed themselves originally when they bought the bitch.
I think alround the endorsemnets are a psoitive thing but the new owners must know about them or they have can them overturned by the Kennel Club. The only way you can prove they knew is to use a signed contract.

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Thats my intention to make up a letter that new owners have to sign stating they have agreed to the endorsment before they collect the pup.

once a bitch reaches 3 years old we would then contact the kennel club and have the endorsment removed.

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spot on Mark, :thumbsup: sensible and reasonable

i've heard on several occasions;

"why should i wait till the bitch is over 2, the Kc allow bitches to breed at 1 year old!"

endorsement are there to be used for the protection of lines and reputations but more importantly they are a way to safe quard the bitch's health and that of her own resulting puppies, by hopefully discouraging the unscrupulous puppy farmers and ignorant backyard'ers

 

[wild whippies]

any bitch pups (whippets) we breed will be endorsed with "progeny not elegible for registration" this endorsment will be removed once they reach 3 years old, the reason we are endorsing the bitch's is to try and stop them being bred of to young.

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Glad to see some breeders taking a vested interest in the future of their pups. Seeing as though the endorsement can be lifted at any time, if the breeder wishes then I seriously don't understand why all puppies aren't leaving reputable breeders with endorsements.

I've said it before on K9 and I'll say it again, the KC do not have a breeds best interests at heart but breeders can, through commitment, move the KC Registration into something of worth.

 

[Paul W]

If the KC are not up to scratch, could some breeders put their heads together and form a new reistration system where by the breeds future would be better handled by people who really care. I would imagine owners of all breeds would appreciate it. The KC seems to just be money makers theirselves.

 

[Jan Doherty]

I have heard that unregisterd ones can go for £800+.

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Sadly that would be about right. The majority of puppies that end up in rescue cannot be traced to a particular breeder and it is known that some breeders are not registering pups because their excessive breeding practices would very quickly come to the attention of the Italian Greyhound fraternity through the breed record supplement.

Unfortunately the KC is too big to take on and it is a profit making organisation who do not want to let puppy registrations fall plus all the peripherals that go with registering a puppy. That is why in some commercial breeds in some supplements especially the toy breeds you will see anything up to 30+ puppies being registered to the same breeder.

 

[June Jonigk]

The Kennel Club are pretty useless really - they brag about giving you details of a breeder on their Accredited Breeder list - but absolutely anyone can become an Accredited Breeder if they pay up

 

[AnnSa]

Do you not have to do anything to become an Accredited Breeder ?

 

I thought you'd have had to prove you were doing the best for the

breed. Plus the dogs were cared for and not just bred for the sake

of it or money.

 

[June Jonigk]

Do you not have to do anything to become an Accredited Breeder ? 

I thought you'd have had to prove you were doing the best for the

breed. Plus the dogs were cared for and not just bred for the sake

of it or money.

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I can't remember exactly Ann, but I know it was very easy - no recommendations or anything

 

[AnnSa]

Do you not have to do anything to become an Accredited Breeder ? 

I thought you'd have had to prove you were doing the best for the

breed. Plus the dogs were cared for and not just bred for the sake

of it or money.

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I can't remember exactly Ann, but I know it was very easy - no recommendations or anything

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Doesn't seem right does it..........you expect when they say Accredited

Breeder you are buying from someone respected and trusted to be doing

the right things.