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evie a sprocker spaniel

Discussion in 'Puppy Forum' started by evie1963, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. evie1963

    evie1963 New Member Registered

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    hi evie is between 4 and 5 months old we are her 3rd owner we are unsure why but only what we have been told , evie was never seen with mother buy second owner no training at all , since we have had evie which has been around 6 weeks all injections etc are up to date including kennel cough , evie was on wilko puppy complete when we got her and took advice from the vets and now she is on hills digestive for about another week and hen she wil be put onto another food through advice from the vets , the problem we are having is hat evie will bite , nip , etc but more on my wife than me as she seems to take more notice of me , allthough we have bought eveie lots of toys including snffle mats , puzzle toys , teething toys , etc she does not all wats want to play with her toys as she is on the hunt all the time , she has been destructive around the garden and home at the moment she has just gone under training as she has not had any taining including toilet , cage , etc . but we are woundering why evie is biteing my wife and not me evei can be good we can see this but she is on the move alot of the time and advice was that she is board so we got her more toys etc , when we take her out she is hit and miss with toilet she does it in doors more often we have tried taining pads with puppy aid evei will rip them up we tried portable toilet only lasted 1 day again ripped up , eveie as she is a puppy she is picking up things that she should not , any advice please would be great
     
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  3. JoanneF

    JoanneF Well-Known Member Registered

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    Ok, first the nipping. It sounds like just what puppies do, I'm not sure why it's more with your wife than you. There are things you can do to help stop it. This is just an extension of the boisterous play she had with her littermates but she needs to learn this is not how to play with humans. Some people find a sharp 'ouch' works but it can just ramp up the excitement. Some people find putting a toy in the dog's mouth works, others find the puppy is still more interested in nipping hands. My preferred method is to teach her that teeth on skin equals end of fun. So as soon as she makes contact, walk out of the room for a few moments. As long as the whole family is consistent - do it immediately and do it every time - she will learn. You could use a house line to draw her away, which keeps your hands both out of reach and also keeps hands for only good things.

    For the toilet training you need a good, very regular regime. Toilet training happens when two things come together - the ABILITY to hold the toilet, along with the DESIRE to hold it in order to earn the reward for doing so.

    Ideally you want her to not be in a position where she needs to toilet before you have her outdoors, so that every toilet is outside - as far as possible, there will be accidents! So set her up to succeed by taking her out even more than she needs; for example every hour and always after sleeping, eating, playing. Your aim is to have her outside before she can't help herself. When she toilets outdoors make a huge fuss (never mind the neighbours, act like outdoor toileting is the best thing you have ever seen) and reward her with a high value treat. Do that immediately, don't make her come to you for the treat so she is clear that it's for toileting and not for coming to you. The idea is that she wants to earn the treat enough to hold the toilet until she is outside - provided she isn't so desperate that she cannot control her toileting obviously. As she is actually performing the toilet you can introduce words she can associate with it (like 'do weewee' and 'busy busy') that later when she is reliably trained you can use these to tell her when you want her to toilet.

    If you take her out and she doesn't toilet after five minutes, bring her in but don't take your eyes off her. Any hint of a toilet inside, scoop her up and get her out fast. If she doesn't try to toilet indoors (great!) take her out a second time and repeat until you do get outside toilets. You need the outside toilet to happen SO that you can reward SO that she learns.

    If she has an accident inside don't react at all. If you get annoyed she may learn to fear your reaction and avoid you if she needs to toilet - the opposite of what you want. Dogs cant make the distinction between you being annoyed at them TOILETING, as opposed to toileting INDOORS. Take a rolled up newspaper and hit yourself over the head for not having taken her outside in time. Not when she is there though in case you scare her. Then clean the area with an enzymatic cleaner to remove any trace of smell that might attract her back to the spot.

    Indoors if you see her circling or scratching the floor, that can sometimes precede toileting so get her out fast.

    Overnight she is unlikely to be able to control her toilet as her little bladder and bowel are not used to having to hold, and therefore not strong enough to hold all night so set your alarm to take her out at least once during the night.

    I don't like puppy pads - they give mixed messages about whether it's ok to toilet indoors or not and confuse the puppy. So I would get rid of them.

    For picking things up, be careful as Cockers can be prone to resource guarding - which means if you try to take things from her, she may learn you are trying to (in her eyes) steal her valued possession. Think of it like this - if you were in a lovely restaurant enjoying a favourite meal and you believed that someone was going to steal it you would get pretty cross too. And the harder you try to take it away the harder she will try to keep it. So three things - always have something really high value to swap, and teach a solid "leave" (don't pick something up) and "drop" (let go of something you have).

    These videos will help.







    You should also train a "settle" to teach her that she has an OFF switch or she could become a very demanding, super fit athlete that you cannot tire. Training like scentwork is fabulous for focus and for tiring dogs, seriously consider getting into something like that to satisfy her need to be busy.



    If you have a Dogs Trust nearby, their general classes are getting great reports.

    For the food - what is your vet suggesting? Vets have very little training in nutrition and what they do get is often provided by the companies that supply them so it's not really independent . I'd be wary of a vets advice for general nutrition. Come back with details and we can comment.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  4. merlina

    merlina Well-Known Member Registered

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    Can't add much to all this excellent advice except the nipping- Evie is still a puppy and may have been taken from her litter much too soon. Puppies learn bite-inhibition from getting reaction from litter mates- she may be trying to catch up by learning on you and your wife. And she's not stupid! She thinks your wife ( female, small, higher voice) is an easier target! As would be the case with another puppy. Don't despair. Every puppy we've had nipped like mad- our latest is the worst. We were like pin-cushions but my husband less so. We never shouted at him and tried distraction- one day it just stopped as it does so long as you are patient. Really glad to hear this little spaniel has finally landed in a thoughtful, kind home. Good luck with her.
     
  5. JudyN

    JudyN Well-Known Member Registered

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    Just a few things to add to @JoanneF's excellent advice:

    As well as working on 'leave' and 'drop', work on a really good recall in the house - I found opening and shutting the fridge door, calling 'SAUSAGE!!!' and rewarding with the best treat ever (quite possibly sausage!) worked really well. This way, she won't be instantly suspicious when she has your best shoe in her mouth because you're not eyeing her up looking annoyed, and she will hopefully forget about the shoe in the excitement.

    I also found teaching a 'bring it to me' command useful (and still do, as my dog's an incorrigible guarder). If I walked up to him, put my hand out and said 'drop', he might object. If I ask 'bring it to me', then if he does bring it to me, I know he's not going to get possessive.

    And finally, impulse control training - it's all very well a pup knowing you don't want her to nip, but she might not have the self-control to stop herself, or to deal with the frustration when she's thwarted. This YouTube video can help with that:
     
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  6. evie1963

    evie1963 New Member Registered

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    hi thankyou for all your helpfull replies , i dont know if evie is reacting to my wife as she has bi polar disorder and dystonia , as for toilet training with evie she is sniffing around alot of the day so we are unsure if its toilet or just sniffing for food , we was advised that evie only needs 2 x 15 minute walks aday plus going out for toilet every 15 minutes but all though we take her out she doesnt really go she is very intrested in whats around her and wait to go to the toilet in the car or indoors , evie has gone through car restrainants and protective covers , various toys , wires no electric ,stones , leaves , plants, worms, door frames , furniture, rubber mats etc .we see the vets about it and they are not that concerned , the food the vets put evie on is hills digestive for the runs eg poops, as she continues to pick up as puppys would , it seems that when i am in the same room eg watching tv and i get up evie will follow no matter where if i go out she is barking and whineing , we have also notice that there is inappropriate sniffing , evie does reck her toys or anything else she gets hold off even what is suppose to be non distructive toys she will eat
     
  7. JoanneF

    JoanneF Well-Known Member Registered

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    This is where you need to take her out, on lead, in your garden. Be quite boring, this isn't play time. When she toilets, praise and reward enthusiastically like I said in my first post. If she doesn't toilet after a few minutes bring her back in, still on lead so you can keep an eye on her closely. If she tries to toilet get her out fast so she can do it outside and you can praise and reward. If she doesn't try to toilet, go back out after 10 minutes and try again. Repeat until she toilets.

    If you follow the advice given, consistently, you should see improvements soon.
     
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  8. JudyN

    JudyN Well-Known Member Registered

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    For general destructiveness, the three main aims are management, management, and management ;) Put EVERYTHING away - large lidded boxes are really helpful, as are shelves she can't reach. Accept that half the point of dog toys is for them to be destroyed - you can make fleecy toys out of old clothes - there's many more ideas here: 37 Homemade Dog Toys Made by DIY Pet Owners Buy soft toys from charity shops, checking that they're safe for dogs (e.g. no plastic eyes, squeakers, wheatbag-type fillings), for her to destuff. Get a big cardboard box, fill it with scrunched up paper, loo roll innards, smaller boxes, add a few treats at the bottom or in the smaller boxes, or in twists of paper, and let her shred it. It'll make a helluva mess, but it's no worse than Lego strewn all over the floor and doesn't hurt if you stand in it;)

    You could try her on meat-flavoured chew toys, or even give her recreational bones - if she doesn't guard them.

    The more you can encourage herself to destroy her own things, and the less opportunity she has to destroy yours, the sooner she'll grow out of this destructiveness. Bear in mind that she may well get worse as she starts teething, and may be more fretful, nippy and mouthy then, but I promise, it does get better in the end.
     
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  9. evie1963

    evie1963 New Member Registered

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    many thanks for your replys , the toilet training is coming on , she still teething and nips we got teething toys etc and vet nurse said she has started to get adult teeth , as evie is chewing door frames etc we got some chew stopper spray but she licks up or off the spray , we have been given advice from vet nurse about evie pulling on lead and that was to call evie back and reward but now when evie pulls she has got it in her head that she will get a biscuit they have even told us to dont ring trainers up as the vets will only tell us the same thing a trainer would so dont waste money , when we sitting down evie will attack our clothes etc all though she has toys , what can you do about dogs sniffing body parts that they should not thanks
     
  10. JudyN

    JudyN Well-Known Member Registered

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    Unless your vet nurse has a qualificiation in dog training/behaviour from a postive training association, I'd feel free to research trainers/behaviourists - being a vet nurse, or even a vet, doesn't imply you know much about dog training at all and what they do 'know' may be out of date.

    What worked for me when training walking on lead was, every time Jasper put tension on the lead I would stop and wait, so we didn't get anywhere fun. The moment the lead slackened I would move forward again, then when he pulled I stopped again. Eventually he realised that the only way to get where he wanted to go was to keep the tension off the lead (I've never insisted on a close 'heel', and when I need him on a short lead he'll still keep the tension off). It did take a long time though - at first, I distinguished between 'training walks' with the lead attached to his collar, and 'recreational walks' where I attached the lead to his harness and didn't worry about him wandering and weaving and, to an extent, pulling. On early 'training walks' could cover about 15 yards in 10 minutes...

    Dogs are always inclined to sniff private parts because however clean you are, they're going to smell interesting to the dog - this is, after all, a large part of how they learn about other dogs! You could get up and leave the room, without comment, when she does it, but you and everyone else need to be very consistent and not expect results too soon. This sort of behaviour is likely to decrease as she matures, particularly if you can make sure she gets enough exercise and brain work, and you teach her a good 'settle' - see the video @JoanneF posted above.
     
  11. JoanneF

    JoanneF Well-Known Member Registered

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    I'm surprised they aren't recommending training - it's a great way to learn, to bond with your dog, and to use as a step to other things like scentwork, obedience etc. I would strongly recommend a good class (but do look for one that is force free and reward based). Where are you in the country (roughly)? Maybe someone can recommend someone.
     
  12. evie1963

    evie1963 New Member Registered

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    thanks for your replys we are in south east of england about 60 miles from london , the vets said dont waste your money on training as they are showing us things to do with evie that a trainer would do , evie can be carm and when she is she gets a reward but the problem we are having is that we take her up the local park and she has a sniff etc and then she will pull left to right so i call her back reward her then she will do it all over again , when we stop for a drink evie will play chew on a stick that she found and be carm the next thing we notice is that she will walk away from us jump up and twist her body head down and pull backwards , all though vets have said to call her back and reward her no matter how many bisuits we give her she will do the same thing again as she seems to know that when she pulls she will get called back for reward , we went to pets at home for advice on chewing and was given a chew stopper spray that will be going back as all evie will do is to lick it up/off and start to chew again door frames chairs etc , it seems evie has got separation anxiety from my husband and no matter where he goes evie will follow even in the bathroom , all though evie has a cage and we are trying to cage train she will go in and play with her kong etc but if we leave her she has a obsession with tearing up her bed etc ..
     
  13. JudyN

    JudyN Well-Known Member Registered

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    My dog would lick off the first chew deterrent spray, but I found this one worked: Grannick's Bitter Apple Chew Deterrent 236ml (Web Exclusive) | Pets At Home

    Having said that, I'm not sure how good they are as training devices - you can't spray everything she might chew, and as dogs have such a good sense of smell, it might, to her, make the whole house smell foul, increasing her stress levels and as a result worsening her behaviour.

    Good training classes will let you sit in on a session before joining. In your place, I think I'd find a local one that looks good, ask if you can sit in, and while there ask the trainers about your specific issues and how they would address them. Different methods can work better for different dogs.
     
  14. Kara 1

    Kara 1 Well-Known Member Registered

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    Dont forget you have a puppy that is crossed with 2 high energy working dogs so she will need brain games too ...have you got puppy classes nearby...You dont want yo stop her chewing , you want to encourage her to chew her own toys ...
     
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  15. merlina

    merlina Well-Known Member Registered

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    Some dogs aren't suited to cage training. I think my working cocker would go insane. Dogs like a retreat but not confinement. Can I ask why you don't use cardboard boxes as a bed - and even newspaper as bedding? In the morning sweep up. Did it for nearly a year with our latest and then it stopped. Cost us nothing and to be honest I've never got the heart for a battle of wills. I take the view there's no point in finding things you don't like for your dog to do. Let her destroy things, give her as much freedom and exercise and training as your life-style allows. In a couple of years- when she's settled into grown-up dog- you'll wish you had that naughty funny pup back again. ;)
     
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  16. JoanneF

    JoanneF Well-Known Member Registered

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    Well, depending on where you are there are several Dogs Trust training schools in SE England and they are getting a great reputation. And while the vet is maybe great at telling you things, it's far better to have someone observe you and fine tune your techniques.
     
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  17. excuseme

    excuseme Well-Known Member Registered

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    As mentioned, anything cardboard to be destroyed is fantastic and plastic bottles which also helps with teething.
    I dislike crates/cages, there are too many used for the wrong purpose (convenience). Our dogs should not be treated like a caged animal, they should have freedom and movement. However cages do sometimes, for short periods have their uses. Our lot love their cages, doors open 24/7, private/secure den space.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
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