Google's disturbing this morning!

[JacksDad]

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Given Jasper's fear of the vet, the fact it's nigh-on impossible to inject directly into a vein, and he fights sedatives all the way, I have wondered about options... At some point I'll need to raise it with my vet.

Judy,
I have twice assisted with dogs that had to be euthanized due to aggression that stemmed from fear (one was legal based, the other safety), in both cases the dogs FOUGHT the initial sedative. In hindsight the mistake was treating the initial sedative as if the dog was just needing it temporarily.

While not being a vet I can't give medication advice, but I would suggest talking with the vet about just really "going for it" with the sedative. don't hold back vs habitually following dog is x weight so that is the correct dose.

Another tip, if you are "lucky" enough to be able to plan how Jasper passes, and you know he will fight the sedative, is to be sure that you keep his last 24 hours as low key as possible. make sure he isn't amped up with adrenalin for when the time comes.

I am hoping Jasper just passes in his sleep when the time comes, that is how Jack went. went to sleep, didn't wake up.

 

[JudyN]

Thanks Jacksdad - yes, I'm very much hoping that he just drifts off peacefully.

 

[excuseme]

Our last dog that was put to sleep was not given a sedative, we both sat in the boot of my car (always a happy place with memories of going for good walks) and had a veterinary sitting nurse with us, my vet administered the injection without any fuss, my dogs head was in my hands and she just went very quickly and peacefully. We have had others over the years that have been given sedatives first, but in the surgery.
The quickest and most peaceful experience was the quick one in the boot of the car. (estate car)
After long discussion/consultation on the phone, the arrangements were made to do this in the car, the vet was ready and waiting when we arrived, there was no time for any suspicious thoughts in her head!
.
.

 

[Ari_RR]

According to the vet (and this matches my own observations) - our first boy actually fought our attempts to keep him alive on the day of his passing... it felt like he just wanted to go quietly, on his own, rather than being rushed to the vet, having breathing tube inserted, etc, and of course there was no way in hell we could just let him go without trying to save him. Anything but peaceful passing, but it was very quick, and I am greatful for that.

 

[Jan Woodhall]

Jan the point I’m digging at is a normal September day I’m seeing dogs with coats on! I think the owners wake up cold so lace there dogs in coats when totally not needed, my dogs made there own heat so not needed plus most people who hunt will give there dogs a nice good rub down .

Understand that yours are working dogs. However, I do stand by my comment that each dog is an individual and has to be treated as such. Having said that, it does not mean that I do not agree with your thoughts that wa-ay too many dog owners put too much clothing on their dogs! Overheating is as bad and sometimes far worse than being cold, causing skin problems and causing the body to be less functional! Robin goes out naked! LOL

 

[JudyN]

Jasper has a coat, but like any self-respecting 10-year-old, he refuses to wear it. The only time he'd benefit is when it's both raining and freezing cold - his fur is sparse and once it's wet, the freezing cold rain goes straight onto his skin. The last time I put it on him, I opened the door to go out and he just stood there, not budging, till I took it off again. So now, if he's cold and miserable we just cut the walk short and come home again. Chances are I'll also be cold and miserable anyway!

 

[Biker John]

With clothing for dogs, Folly being a Whippet has very little body fat and very thin covering of fur, she gets cold and any rain goes straight to her skin. So if its cold she wears a warm coat and if its raining she wears a waterproof one. OK she has way to many coats but that's me, seeing a coat when we are out, thinking oh lets try it, putting it on her and thinking yes that fits and suits her so I buy yet another. In reality two coats would be enough, a thin waterproof one and a warm waterproof one.

For euthanasia, on Friday I took a friend with her old ill dog to her vets, it was handled quite well, the vet came out, looked at the dog, (she had been treating it for some time), agreed with my friend that the time had come, took the dog in. We waited a few mins then she opened a side door, my friend went in and the dog was on a table with a long line in her leg, my friend could hold and stroke the dog while the vet injected it from a distance. When she had passed away, my friend came out, after a few mins the vet carried the dog out and we took her back to be buried in the garden.

 

[lurcherman]

Biker John, Is your whippet a worker or pet? My whip x did feel the cold standing around and at close to minus temps but being a worker from 6 months onwards the cold never gave him big problems until say 10 ish when at certain times the coat was on him,

 

[Biker John]

Lurcherman, she is a pet, though she has raced most weekends apart from winter. I presume your cross had more coat and body fat than a full Whippet. But after having dogs of many breeds over the years I have to say sight hounds are wonderful.

 

[lurcherman]

Mine didn’t have a lot of hair but yes off course more than a ped whip, I do agree whips in winter feel it , but I also do think the more the owner wraps his dog up the more creature comforts the dog becomes, get the dog used to a bit of cold, water to harden it up, my whip x was super fit and would have outlived my saluki x who lasted 16, I let my brindle go at 14 due to a tumour, all I can say is keep them super fit,

 

[excuseme]

We use the Equafleece coats for our lot on shoot days. The dogs get very wet,tired and cold, and while we have breaks in between drives or our lunch break they sometimes have a coat put on to help them warm up. Other beaters do the same thing too.
.

 

[Biker John]

Lurcerman, I agree that most dogs are a lot less fit than they should be, I have said in another thread that my girl had a FCE back in may, the vet said that not being over weight and being well muscled should help her. And she recovered brilliantly certainly faster and more completely than most I have read about.

 

[Jan Woodhall]

Mine didn’t have a lot of hair but yes off course more than a ped whip, I do agree whips in winter feel it , but I also do think the more the owner wraps his dog up the more creature comforts the dog becomes, get the dog used to a bit of cold, water to garden it up, my whip x was super fit and would have outlived my saluki x who lasted 16, I let my brindle go at 14 due to a tumour, all I can say is keep them super fit,

Lurcherman, I think you have a very valid point. If animals are brought up to be strong, they will do fine. As a breed (HUMANS) some have a tendancy to put human emotions on animals which is not reality. It is hard to think they are not feeling what we are feeling, however, it does take a while to build them up to full strength! Thinking about it, baby wolves have to develop good protective coats quickly! Wonder if they are born with extra thick skin too!? ....I believe that Eskimos have extra thick skin and hair from birth as that is what they have required for time immamorial! (can't spell, and not got my glasses on so I think that is almost correct!LOL) Like those born in hot countries have skin that does not readily accept Vit D from the sun! Nature is wonderful isn't it!

 

[JacksDad]

Tail of two dogs....

My dog was a terrier mix, likely a bit of chihuahua, didn't have much of a fur coat. very short hair. His best dog buddy was a Jindo. Thick fur, nice under coat.

As a "rule", I think putting clothes on a dog is silly and more for us humans to say "ah look how cut they are". BUT there is exceptions to every rule. It is NOT anthropomorphic to look at a dog who's physical/genetic heritage is not suited to cold or wet and cold and see them shiver and to say 'oh my dog is cold'. Is it not wrong to do something about it either. Nor does it imply pampering, coddling etc if you do. Simply means you looking out for your dog in a situation they are not physically suited for. Doing something can mean simply cutting the walk short, or it could mean putting a "coat" on them. And I am sure there are things in between.

The idea that you could raise a dog to be "strong" implying you can some how over come genes and physical limitation is just silly. Dogs will react to the environmental conditions based on their physical attributes and genetic heritage. If their physical traits selected through breeding are ideal for dealing with cold, snow etc, they they will be physically able to do so better than a dog who was bread to function in places that never snow, never got very cold etc. Raising them to be "strong" has nothing to do with it. For example, a Mexican hairless not matter how you raise them will still be hairless, and thus extremely NOT suited for cold weather. Same for many short hair breeds.

With my dog, when it would get down into the 20's, or even on the rare occasion the teens. I kept the walk short. Just what he needed to go to the bathroom. On occasion, when we would run into his buddy, we might stay out longer because walking with his buddy was more reinforcing than the cold was aversive. If I saw him shivering too much, I would check his "arm"pits and if they were cool/cold, he would get stuffed into my jacket with me to warm up for a few minutes. Which was less aversive for him than wearing a coat/sweater. His buddy, the Jindo, would come a live in the colder temperatures. It was like she got an extra boost of energy. She was genetically suited to cold, damp, snow etc. My dog was not. Not amount of "raising to be strong" would change that.

People feeling cold, thus assuming their dogs must be cold too (regardless of what observation may otherwise suggest) is not anthropomorphism. It's projection. But I personally would rather someone project a bit, than be indifferent to clear discomfort.

People rightly take action when it gets hot to help their dogs who are more suited for cold to not over heat, it is also right to take action to help dogs not suited for cold to stay warm.

 

[lurcherman]

All good points off course jacksdad, diff places diff measures , but by treating a dog early to the elements protects it as being a worker to be stronger,,not saying freeze them but In the right times at bit of wet days and cold times get them out and about,, in my view of working these dogs it makes them work harder and and faster , I worked all my life in a scrapyard from young and I mean young, them a truck driver at times at night , then moved to Scotland , did it affect me ? Not a bit, it’s how I personally want my dogs to be, common sence of course come s into it , kinds regards ..

 

[RGC]

Lurcherman, I think you have a very valid point. If animals are brought up to be strong, they will do fine. As a breed (HUMANS) some have a tendancy to put human emotions on animals which is not reality. It is hard to think they are not feeling what we are feeling, however, it does take a while to build them up to full strength! Thinking about it, baby wolves have to develop good protective coats quickly! Wonder if they are born with extra thick skin too!? ....I believe that Eskimos have extra thick skin and hair from birth as that is what they have required for time immamorial! (can't spell, and not got my glasses on so I think that is almost correct!LOL) Like those born in hot countries have skin that does not readily accept Vit D from the sun! Nature is wonderful isn't it!

That’s a point and a half that you’ve made Jan Woodhall.

All good points off course jacksdad, diff places diff measures , but by treating a dog early to the elements protects it as being a worker to be stronger,,not saying freeze them but In the right times at bit of wet days and cold times get them out and about,, in my view of working these dogs it makes them work harder and and faster , I worked all my life in a scrapyard from young and I mean young, them a truck driver at times at night , then moved to Scotland , did it affect me ? Not a bit, it’s how I personally want my dogs to be, common sence of course come s into it , kinds regards ..

”The lady doth protest too much, methinks”.