Guarding

[Scraggle]

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Now puppy is on raw so it's more valuable and takes longer to eat we've found he guards. He eats in his crate at the moment but is rapidly outgrowing it. He is absolutely fine around the humans, we leave him to eat but I do go and dump cheese or sausage through the crate every few days to hopefully keep it that way.

The other dogs eat outside but tend to finish quicker and have to walk past the crate to go through to the living room which will make the puppy growl even when they don't pay any attention at all to his food.

I know it's natural but I also don't want it to create issues. I can leave the others outside til puppy is finished easily enough but should I be proactively training him to be OK with them passing while he eats. If so how? Drop sausage in for him while they walk past?

Also makes things like chews trickier as they have to be separated to eat them though he doesn't really seem that fussed about guarding antlers /hooves etc.

 

[JudyN]

I only have experience of guarding with humans, but what worked best for us was managing Jasper's environment so that we started from a point when he didn't feel threatened. I think I would do the same with pup - feed elsewhere, or at different times, or leave the dogs outside for longer so he doesn't get into the habit of feeling threatened while still young, when it's more likely to become ingrained. As he'll be out of his crate soon, it's probably not worth proactively training for this particular situation. Where are you planning/hoping to feed him when he's older? He might be one of those dogs that always needs management round food...

 

[Scraggle]

I was hoping eventually outside with the others but I'm guessing probably just in the kitchen will be more realistic. It's just because he needs more food so takes longer and the others want to come back in as soon as they're done really. Especially if it's cold or wet outside.

They literally just need to walk through the kitchen into the living room and then are separated from him with a baby gate but we only have the 2 rooms downstairs so can't really put pup anywhere else to eat.

To be fair my terriers guard from each other as well but its just a growl or they'll pick their food up and move away and it doesn't escalate as they've always just heeded the warning and it's not often as mostly they have learnt to just leave each other alone. And I am careful to not let them eyeball puppy while he's eating either.

I'd just prefer puppy to not feel threatened really like you say.

 

[JudyN]

I'm thinking for now, a different feeding timetable might be the best bet. Either feed him first, or after the others. Feeding him first might be better, as waiting for the others to finish might ramp up his stress levels before he even gets to eat. You might also then be able to do some controlled training - dog appears in kitchen doorway while he's eating, throw him something high-value. Then when he reacts positively to seeing a dog in the doorway, get that dog to take a step into the kitchen and throw a high-value treat... and so on. One difficulty might be finding something higher value than raw...

I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, but as you have young children, be very vigilant for signs of guarding against humans. I'm sure your children are very well trained, but there's always the occasion where pup finds a chew and someone goes to pet him not realising he has it.

 

[Tinytom]

Having multiple dogs can be tricky when feeding with some dogs ....
The only on I have trouble with is Tom ..not food guarding with humans just the other dogs ...the other 3 eat in the kitchen ...he eats in the utility room with the door closed until he has finished .....he has been with us 8 years .....some dogs just like to eat alone ...could you put him in a room alone whilst he eats instead of his crate ....

 

[Scraggle]

He's not concerned at all about people near him while he eats, we've only got the kitchen really to feed him in (he chooses to take it to his crate usually he's not necessarily shut in there ever) but I might try feeding the little dogs first and putting them back in the living room so he can eat undisturbed. They only take 30 seconds if that to demolish their dinner I can go back to mainly minces as well, switched to more bones because it was helping the bitey stage a bit.

 

[Hemlock]

That sounds a good plan. Good for you for taking time to find a solution. We wouldn't like a group of people patrolling us while we eat either!

 

[Harvey G]

highly suggest you try handfeeding him the raw, do it 1 on 1 at first then build up to a point where he'll eat out your hand with other dogs present, before long you'll be able to reintroduce the bowl.

 

[Feverfew]

I've always had multiple dogs, and always feed separately. Not worth the risk in my view - they are separated by stairgates and can see each other, but there's zero tension as they know that the gates keep everyone safe.
Even if there are no 'incidents', the last thing you want is adog feeling fear and anxiety when eating, as that can lead to major digestive problems, as well as spilling out into other situations.

 

[Robins mum]

I'm thinking for now, a different feeding timetable might be the best bet. Either feed him first, or after the others. Feeding him first might be better, as waiting for the others to finish might ramp up his stress levels before he even gets to eat. You might also then be able to do some controlled training - dog appears in kitchen doorway while he's eating, throw him something high-value. Then when he reacts positively to seeing a dog in the doorway, get that dog to take a step into the kitchen and throw a high-value treat... and so on. One difficulty might be finding something higher value than raw...

I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, but as you have young children, be very vigilant for signs of guarding against humans. I'm sure your children are very well trained, but there's always the occasion where pup finds a chew and someone goes to pet him not realising he has it.

Hi, sorry to interject on this conversation half way through! only just seen it! I agree with a lot of JudyN comments. This is all going to be down to you - your own emotions - and how you handle it. Always pre-empt every issue that might arise and work round it so it NEVER arrises, this will get the pup and your terriers into a routine of calm and satisfaction.

Perhaps you might consider things like having the dogs all on loose leads just incase things turn sour, and get them to sit with you and small portions of their feed, give them a mouthful one at a time calmly, confidently and positively and slowly, watching every reaction to keep you all safe, I feel that if you have one dog 'rumble' at another, that is the potential for an argument and to be avoided where possible, always make feed time a happy relaxed time, but ensure the dogs know that YOU control who has what and when. Wish you all the best - big responsibility animals aren't they!

 

[Hemlock]

I would disagree here, because such action will ramp up the incipient stress levels, and could easily cause the very incidents it's better to avoid. And having several leads to hold at the same time is more likely to cause issues than solve them. Separating the dogs so that they feel safe when they eat is much easier and safer.

 

[Robins mum]

I would disagree here, because such action will ramp up the incipient stress levels, and could easily cause the very incidents it's better to avoid. And having several leads to hold at the same time is more likely to cause issues than solve them. Separating the dogs so that they feel safe when they eat is much easier and safer.

Certainly it is easier, I do not disagree with you! However, for longevity, do you think more positive training might be a good idea? I did not actually mean ( my son tells me I am VERY confusing! so sorry!) I did not actually mean to hold the leads but to get the dogs to sit by you in a row so leads are quickly acessible if things go wrong, and by hand feeding the dogs, the pup could have a slightly larger portion at each offering ( the others would never know!) they would be finishing not so far apart of each other so reducing any stress levels from the other older dogs ( and they will be stressing and feeling less loved currently) Then the idea was to bring in the dog bowls and slowly introduce dropping the handfuls of feed into the bowls and very gradually introduce more and more as you see the dogs accept the feed in a more relaxed manor. Anyway, if you think I have given bad advise, then I am sorry, it was not intentional.

 

[Feverfew]

Robin's mum, I appreciate you have good intentions, but that seems to me to be an awful lot of trouble with training, hand feeding, leads on (potential for tangling; also no way you could prevent a scrap by grabbing a lead as you would never be quick enough) and faffing around, with attendant risk of it going wrong, when you can just separate the dogs physically when they are eating.

TBH, I don't like to see a lot of control around dogs when they are eating, such as making them sit and wait or to watch while other dogs are fed. My recommendation would always be to feed them safely, separately, calmly - that way, everyone benefits and you don't take any chances.

 

[Robins mum]

Robin's mum, I appreciate you have good intentions, but that seems to me to be an awful lot of trouble with training, hand feeding, leads on (potential for tangling; also no way you could prevent a scrap by grabbing a lead as you would never be quick enough) and faffing around, with attendant risk of it going wrong, when you can just separate the dogs physically when they are eating.

TBH, I don't like to see a lot of control around dogs when they are eating, such as making them sit and wait or to watch while other dogs are fed. My recommendation would always be to feed them safely, separately, calmly - that way, everyone benefits and you don't take any chances.

Feverfew, I understand your rationale, we are all different and I would rather take a week or two to get a solid grounding and you have translated what I intended, differently, so I'll just keep my mouth shut! Take no notice of me!

 

[Sheps Dog Training Centre]

Hi! We suggest to go back to basics and start by handfeeding. Slowly build that up to putting the bowl down, but taking it away, and wait for your pup to give you eye contact, before you reward the good behaviour and putting the bowl down again. Most of all, be patient with your pup, and be consistent with training. Good luck!

 

[JoanneF]

Slowly build that up to putting the bowl down, but taking it away,

What is the rationale behind that? Conventional advice is that you leave a dog to eat undisturbed, to build his confidence that his food is secure. How would you feel if you were enjoying a meal, and for no obvious reason, someone tried to take it away before you had finished? It wouldn't take many repetitions for you to get pretty cross, and start guarding your food all the harder. Personally, I'd be doing something creative with my cutlery if you tried to do it to me, but that's just me ...

Sorry, but that doesn't give me a lot of faith in your training methods. That's a very outdated idea.

 

[Feverfew]

What is the rationale behind that? Conventional advice is that you leave a dog to eat undisturbed, to build his confidence that his food is secure. How would you feel if you were enjoying a meal, and for no obvious reason, someone tried to take it away before you had finished? It wouldn't take many repetitions for you to get pretty cross, and start guarding your food all the harder.

Sorry, but that doesn't give me a lot of faith in your training methods. That's a very outdated idea.

Was going to say something very similar. What exactly is the reason for requiring 'eye contact'? None of this will make any sense to the dog, and it surely won't have any effect on.his feeling he needs to protect his resources if you take them away.

 

[Sheps Dog Training Centre]

Was going to say something very similar. What exactly is the reason for requiring 'eye contact'? None of this will make any sense to the dog, and it surely won't have any effect on.his feeling he needs to protect his resources if you take them away.

Hello, certainly! When it comes to the way dogs communicate, they don't communicate using spoken language like us, a lot of their communication is done by eye contact and body language. When a dog looks at you and gives you eye contact, it is waiting for your guidance and cue. This is important when you want to establish that bond and relationship with your dog where he/she looks to you for guidance and support. Similarly, in a resource guarding situation, he has now established that he looks to you for guidance and leadership as a leader of his pack. I hope this helps!

 

[Sheps Dog Training Centre]

What is the rationale behind that? Conventional advice is that you leave a dog to eat undisturbed, to build his confidence that his food is secure. How would you feel if you were enjoying a meal, and for no obvious reason, someone tried to take it away before you had finished? It wouldn't take many repetitions for you to get pretty cross, and start guarding your food all the harder. Personally, I'd be doing something creative with my cutlery if you tried to do it to me, but that's just me ...

Sorry, but that doesn't give me a lot of faith in your training methods. That's a very outdated idea.

Hi, thanks for your comment. In most situations (not all, as every situation is unique, and also depends on a severity), you will need to build that connection and trust with your dog that you can take his food away but he doesn't need to feel that he won't get it back from you, hence, the need to guard what he considers high value. When you can establish that strong relationship and bond with him by practicing and establishing that its okay for you to approach his food, and he will be rewarded for calmly waiting, it will in most cases improve resource guarding issues.

We do not recommend any scolding or telling off, or any negative energy. It takes time and patience for your dog to get there, as they will need to first understand what you are trying to communicate with them.Once they get it, they will click to it pretty quickly. I hope this helps.

 

[JoanneF]

Not really.

The way most people suggest building a dog's confidence and security around food is to not take it away in the first place.

What do you mean by 'negative energy'?

It sounds suspiciously like something a certain TV presenter used to say (not a person I'd refer to as a dog trainer ...)