Health, The Next Step

[jok]

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I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to get in touch with The Whippet Health Foundation who is doing this in the US and getting some feedback from them  what they've found, on what is normal for whippets etc, to help give us a baseline to look for.  Maybe they would be willing to help interpret our results - see how they compare etc...
Just a thought.

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Wendy i've looked and questions have been asked, although yes they do a lot more testing than us in America - the extensive testing that Ruby and Dexter have had is not common place so there isn't the stacks of data you may expect.

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Actually Jo there is. It's done through The Whippet Health Foundation - which collates any data submitted to them and runs the testing (and subsidises it as well) every year at the Whippet National.

Trust me - they have the information - they have been putting this info together for the past several years. It would be good for us to tap into that resource since it is out there.

Just ask Kristen (cofeature) and Karen Lee (surreyhill) - everything that you're talking about is done in depth over there.

Wendy

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Wendy please don't think im being rude that im questioning this.

I have already contacted Karen a couple of weeks back.

I have looked at the Whippet Health Foundation.

If someone can put me wrong then great - but i didn't think that the testing done at The Whippet National was as extensive at all. What Ruby had normally requires sedation, she had to be left at the vets for several hours, she was x-rayed, she had her chest shaved (although they can do it without but said preferred that she was clipped), was extensively scanned and had loads of pictures and measurements / readings taken.

From what i believed happened in America, it was more the basic ausculation type testing and then if anything abnormal was detected the dog would be referred for further testing.

On this note - what Ruby had done (and i asked for everything possible and it cost a lot) would therefore not be possible to be done at a show. I would think that if breed clubs do organise anything it will be in the form of the basic ausculation by a cardiologist who has a good working knowledge of Sighthounds. Again, any problems detected from this would have to go for further testing.

Hopefully our American friends will be able to confirm :thumbsup:

 

[chelynnah]

I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to get in touch with The Whippet Health Foundation who is doing this in the US and getting some feedback from them  what they've found, on what is normal for whippets etc, to help give us a baseline to look for.  Maybe they would be willing to help interpret our results - see how they compare etc...
Just a thought.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Wendy i've looked and questions have been asked, although yes they do a lot more testing than us in America - the extensive testing that Ruby and Dexter have had is not common place so there isn't the stacks of data you may expect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Actually Jo there is. It's done through The Whippet Health Foundation - which collates any data submitted to them and runs the testing (and subsidises it as well) every year at the Whippet National.

Trust me - they have the information - they have been putting this info together for the past several years. It would be good for us to tap into that resource since it is out there.

Just ask Kristen (cofeature) and Karen Lee (surreyhill) - everything that you're talking about is done in depth over there.

Wendy

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Wendy please don't think im being rude that im questioning this.

I have already contacted Karen a couple of weeks back.

I have looked at the Whippet Health Foundation.

If someone can put me wrong then great - but i didn't think that the testing done at The Whippet National was as extensive at all. What Ruby had normally requires sedation, she had to be left at the vets for several hours, she was x-rayed, she had her chest shaved (although they can do it without but said preferred that she was clipped), was extensively scanned and had loads of pictures and measurements / readings taken.

From what i believed happened in America, it was more the basic ausculation type testing and then if anything abnormal was detected the dog would be referred for further testing.

On this note - what Ruby had done (and i asked for everything possible and it cost a lot) would therefore not be possible to be done at a show. I would think that if breed clubs do organise anything it will be in the form of the basic ausculation by a cardiologist who has a good working knowledge of Sighthounds. Again, any problems detected from this would have to go for further testing.

Hopefully our American friends will be able to confirm :thumbsup:

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No problem - check out Kristen's post on the thread on TWF (post 82 I think) http://www.thewhippetforum.com/forums/inde...pic=12116&st=75

She says it's full measurements, asculation (sp?) and then the full echo with doppelar She gets her dogs done every year.

It's certainly possible that you did something even further than what they've done - so I'm not meaning to be rude either, but at the end of the day it would still be a good resource to tap into since they now have a few years of data and we have no data on what is normal for whippets that might be different than other breeds.

Wendy

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edited because I really need to read 'what' I write, not what I think I write - there's a huge difference between the word 'out' and the word 'our' LOL

 

[jok]

No problem - check out Kristen's post on the thread on TWF (post 82 I think) http://www.thewhippetforum.com/forums/inde...pic=12116&st=75
She says it's full measurements, asculation (sp?) and then the full echo with doppelar   She gets her dogs done every year.

It's certainly possible that you did something even further than what they've done - so I'm not meaning to be rude either, but at the end of the day it would still be a good resource to tap into since they now have a few years of data and we have no data on what is normal for whippets that might be different than other breeds.

Wendy

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edited because I really need to read 'what' I write, not what I think I write - there's a huge difference between the word 'out' and the word 'our' LOL

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Yes, brilliant if that sort of data is available. I couldn't find it on the website though but i would really like to see it.

Our experience was having an experienced cardiologist be able to say Ruby had a healthy heart free from disease, clear valves, no thickening or narrowing in the wrong places, good heart rhythm etc. The problem came was that he wasn't able to interpret her aortic velocity reading as he just hasn't treated healthy whippets and had nothing to compare her reading to - only data from other breeds. It was only thanks to Roger checking with Paddy Mannion (who has seen Whippets, Grey's , Lurchers and does know the readings that should be expected) that we could learn that her aortic velocity reading was fine.

We have peace of mind that we've done the testing possible. Although everyone always has to remember that healthy now means just that.

Im more than happy to talk about the process etc

It is going to be a learning curve for everyone to understand the values and processes involved. I do hope that testing becomes common place and we have decided we won't breed from any that haven't had it from here on. Unfortunately there was a £425 price tag, but in the grand scheme of things its the price of one puppy.

[SIZE=8pt]edited to fix broken quote[/SIZE]

 

[dragonfly]

I believe this study that I sent to Jo is also useful as it has up to date comparatives for WHIPPETS.

ECHOCARDIOGRAPHIC REFERENCE VALUES IN WHIPPETS

Full text is available, please email me for a copy.

The aortic velocity results are shown with means, parameters and significant differences. It makes very interesting reading and gives a better understanding if you can make the effort to plough through it, although I appreciate it is not a simple paper.

I would assume that any sighthound cardiologist would already have this study, but it has to be worth getting a copy and taking it along when you get your dog tested.

Cathie

 

[rls22]

It was really useful Cathie, definitely one worth reading. And even this little Science dunce managed to plough through it! :b

 

[~JO~]

Really interesting...

I am interested wat the purpose of an xray would be when looking at the health of the heart?

 

[jok]

Really interesting...I am interested wat the purpose of an xray would be when looking at the health of the heart?

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As Ruby's was normal, i don't know what particular problems he was looking for. He had initially intended to do 2 x-rays but after the first one said he didn't need to do the other. When i was talked through her results i was shown the picture and pointed out the completely normal shape and size and that an enlarged heart would be apparent just from this.

The extra purpose in addition to the extensive scanning, well i don't know. But i went on the canine cardiologists advice and that is part of the testing he does.

 

[~JO~]

Really interesting...I am interested wat the purpose of an xray would be when looking at the health of the heart?

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As Ruby's was normal, i don't know what particular problems he was looking for. He had initially intended to do 2 x-rays but after the first one said he didn't need to do the other. When i was talked through her results i was shown the picture and pointed out the completely normal shape and size and that an enlarged heart would be apparent just from this.

The extra purpose in addition to the extensive scanning, well i don't know. But i went on the canine cardiologists advice and that is part of the testing he does.

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So maybe it is the most simple way to see the size of the heart - thanks :thumbsup:

 

[jok]

Really interesting...I am interested wat the purpose of an xray would be when looking at the health of the heart?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

As Ruby's was normal, i don't know what particular problems he was looking for. He had initially intended to do 2 x-rays but after the first one said he didn't need to do the other. When i was talked through her results i was shown the picture and pointed out the completely normal shape and size and that an enlarged heart would be apparent just from this.

The extra purpose in addition to the extensive scanning, well i don't know. But i went on the canine cardiologists advice and that is part of the testing he does.

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So maybe it is the most simple way to see the size of the heart - thanks :thumbsup:

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Yes, put in a nutshell i suppose that is exactly what it is for!! :cheers:

I do remember him commenting on size in relation to the chest cavity etc so that is what he must have been looking at. When you think about it, scanning the heart alone will not be able to look at it in comparison of the rest of the body.

I know the x-ray was done first - so i suppose if it had picked up any enlargements, it would help for doing the scan :thumbsup:

 

[jok]

The proper reaons and not my rubbish attempts at explaining. Obviously a very useful tool and as i said, it's what the cardio recommended :thumbsup:

* The size and outline of the heart. Changes in the size and shape of the heart may indicate a variety of conditions, such as heart failure, congenital heart disease, fluid around the heart (pericardial effusion) and problems with heart valves.

* Blood vessels. Because the outlines of the large vessels near the heart — the aorta and pulmonary arteries and veins — are visible on X-rays, they may reveal aortic aneurysms or other blood vessel problems, or congenital heart disease.

 

[jok]

As we've strayed slightly off original topic - reminder for people to contact their breed clubs in relation to health issues and what you want brought forward. If no one shows interest, testing clinics won't get set up!

Jan is the Health Officer for NCWC and i know she is working tirelessly. It was Jan who first asked myself and Rachel several months ago if we would have testing done and be prepared to discuss and publicise the results. Both Jan and Cathie have been most helpful in providing data, discussing things etc. We are very grateful and are learning a lot all the time now.

I can only encourage others to do the same and of course to speak to your breed clubs :thumbsup:

 

[liza]

As we've strayed slightly off original topic - reminder for people to contact their breed clubs in relation to health issues and what you want brought forward.  If no one shows interest, testing clinics won't get set up!
Jan is the Health Officer for NCWC and i know she is working tirelessly.  It was Jan who first asked myself and Rachel several months ago if we would have testing done and be prepared to discuss and publicise the results.  Both Jan and Cathie have been most helpful in providing data, discussing things etc.  We are very grateful and are learning a lot all the time now.

I can only encourage others to do the same and of course to speak to your breed clubs :thumbsup:

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can anyone tell me is health testing for whippets coming in next year

 

[jayp]

We are awaiting a Health Plan from the KC for all breeds including ours, this should be anytime now, breed clubs have been instructed by the KC to have a meeting beginning of december to discuss and give feedback to KC

So there is no answer to your question either way, sorry