Healthy In The Morning, Loose In The Afternoon

[WhipItDevo]

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I'm feeding JWB puppy food to my 4.5 month old Silas and he does a normal poo in the morning but the afternoon one is not healthy at all - starts ok then becomes liquid towards end. Is this overfeeding? I weigh his recommended daily 230g of food out and split into 3 meals a day (7am, 12pm, 6pm) with the evening one a bit smaller than the other two. I switched (unavoidably quite quickly) to JWB from Arden Grange because he wasn't enthusiastic about AG taste and he loves this one but it's been like this a week and a bit now. Any suggestions what I could change? A smaller lunch? Smaller everything (he's always hungry and I can see all his ribs!)? Timings? Does overeating upset tummy? Any thoughts welcome.

 

[Esty]

Hiya

I had a similar problem with two of mine a while back and started a thread called 'runs in the evening' if you want to look for more advice there :thumbsup: I have since switched from James Wellbeloved to CSJ food on the recommendation of a friend - I also needed my new rescue girl to gain weight and she just wasn't gaining on JWB - if I gave her more food, she just produced more waste, she wasn't gaining weight. I have always sworn by JWB in terms of their general health and energy and having a lovely glossy coat but the messy poos are a real pain to pick up!!

I tried three different CSJ foods and I think one of them has made them 'loose' again but can't be sure as one of them has had a separate illness which did the same so I will have to try again when he's settled down. The one that seems to suit them best is CP Extra. Emmy has gained weight in only three weeks on it and they poo less often (and it's easier to pick up!) The CSJ people are fab, will give you loads of advice and send free samples. I get mine delivered free by a local dog food business AND it's cheaper than JWB. The JWB I was getting was 44.99 from Jollyes, 39.99 from petplanet and 34.99 from my local market. However, the CSJ is only 29.99 for the same size bag.

There is always the chance that the quick switch over may have upset his tum so it may not be the JWB to blame. Some people may advise you to feed a raw/ BARF diet instead but for several reasons I didn't fancy that much.

Hope this helps

 

[masta]

I'm feeding JWB puppy food to my 4.5 month old Silas and he does a normal poo in the morning but the afternoon one is not healthy at all - starts ok then becomes liquid towards end. Is this overfeeding? I weigh his recommended daily 230g of food out and split into 3 meals a day (7am, 12pm, 6pm) with the evening one a bit smaller than the other two. I switched (unavoidably quite quickly) to JWB from Arden Grange because he wasn't enthusiastic about AG taste and he loves this one but it's been like this a week and a bit now. Any suggestions what I could change? A smaller lunch? Smaller everything (he's always hungry and I can see all his ribs!)? Timings? Does overeating upset tummy? Any thoughts welcome.

230g doesnt sounds a lot of food for a 5 month growing pup you should be feeding a pup to appetite you carnt overfeed a pup in its first year as long as its getting excise it will let you know if it needs more or less

as for the scour "you get out what you put in" all the posts on K9 regarding dogs with stomach,feeding weight problems have 1 common denominator - complete food

change to the dogs natural diet and you will have a happy healthy pup

 

[Esty]

To play Devil's Advocate, there are pros and cons to both complete diets and BARF diets. When I spoke to my neighbour who used to train greyhounds he nearly fell over when I mentioned giving them raw food as he said the problems of salmonella aren't worth the risk. There have also been tales from vets and vet nurses of dogs choking on raw food. It doesn't suit everyone and I'm not a convert, I'm afraid, though I know several people with whippets who swear by it and have happy healthy dogs. Each to their own.

As Masta pointed out though, I wouldn't restrict his food at that age - thinking back, I'm sure mine were on about 300g per day at that age, made up of complete food, cooked chicken breast (obviously no bones!), mince etc. They also used to have goat's milk now and again.

 

[Dotty&Duke]

HiyaI had a similar problem with two of mine a while back and started a thread called 'runs in the evening' if you want to look for more advice there :thumbsup: I have since switched from James Wellbeloved to CSJ food on the recommendation of a friend - I also needed my new rescue girl to gain weight and she just wasn't gaining on JWB - if I gave her more food, she just produced more waste, she wasn't gaining weight. I have always sworn by JWB in terms of their general health and energy and having a lovely glossy coat but the messy poos are a real pain to pick up!!

I tried three different CSJ foods and I think one of them has made them 'loose' again but can't be sure as one of them has had a separate illness which did the same so I will have to try again when he's settled down. The one that seems to suit them best is CP Extra. Emmy has gained weight in only three weeks on it and they poo less often (and it's easier to pick up!) The CSJ people are fab, will give you loads of advice and send free samples. I get mine delivered free by a local dog food business AND it's cheaper than JWB. The JWB I was getting was 44.99 from Jollyes, 39.99 from petplanet and 34.99 from my local market. However, the CSJ is only 29.99 for the same size bag.

There is always the chance that the quick switch over may have upset his tum so it may not be the JWB to blame. Some people may advise you to feed a raw/ BARF diet instead but for several reasons I didn't fancy that much.

Hope this helps

Same here Duke had problems with not loose poo but not hard enough to empty his anal glands therefore he ended up with antibiotics for a blocked anal gland problem. Somebody told me about CSJ but said make sure its the lamb and rice because it's the most gentle. he has been on this for the last 3 months and his poo has really improved and no more blocked glands. I, like you would really recommend giving it a try , I would say though give it a good couple of months before you decide because thats how long it took to see the improvement. :thumbsup:

 

[masta]

To play Devil's Advocate, there are pros and cons to both complete diets and BARF diets. When I spoke to my neighbour who used to train greyhounds he nearly fell over when I mentioned giving them raw food as he said the problems of salmonella aren't worth the risk. There have also been tales from vets and vet nurses of dogs choking on raw food. It doesn't suit everyone and I'm not a convert, I'm afraid, though I know several people with whippets who swear by it and have happy healthy dogs. Each to their own.
As Masta pointed out though, I wouldn't restrict his food at that age - thinking back, I'm sure mine were on about 300g per day at that age, made up of complete food, cooked chicken breast (obviously no bones!), mince etc. They also used to have goat's milk now and again.

Aug 2008 USA

"Pedigree's Complete Nutrition Small Crunchy Bits dog food has been voluntarily recalled and pet owners are left wondering if their dog could have salmonella".

As we all know salmonella generally occurs from poor product process ie cooked chicken pies etc raw food is exceptionally safe especially if it has been frozen, re your greyhound trainer most feed a meat broth with brown bread ie a big pot of cheap meat and offal boiled in a back yard on a gas ring :x re choking there will most dogs choke on foreign objects toys etc i have found in 30 years of keeping dogs they tend to manage food without choking = your right each to their own but as i said before look back at all the posts re food problems, tummy problems,not keeping weight on, pancreatitis etc etc 90+% complete feeders

btw this is part of what my 6 dogs had tonight do you know what it is??

 

[WhipItDevo]

Is that tongue?

I'd just been feeding to guidelines on food packs corresponding to his weight. I gave more when I first got him to try to put some weight on but he just pooed all the time so I went back to guide amount. Nobody had said to me to feed as much as they'll eat. I heard and followed the opposite - that they have big appetites and small stomachs so feed little and often in controlled amounts. I tried letting him go for it just now and I'm not sure he'd ever stop eating if I let him decide - 4 handfuls of his 5 for the day in one sitting, I don't know where he puts it!!! I'm certainly not suggesting anyone's wrong - just that there are a confusing number of approaches for a first time puppy feeder. I think he looks better in build and coat after a few days of increased food though so I'll stick with this amount for now, if it's not perfectly healthy in a few weeks I'll get some lamb CSJ, and if that fails I'll get into the RAW thing (I've given him some chicken wings and he thought it was great but dragged them into the floor) - in summer we're moving to a house with a garden so that'll be more feasible.

I feel bad that I've maybe underfed him a touch by being a slave to the guidelines, but he's always been active and has seemed happy, no unexplained whining which could potentially have been hunger, so hopefully I haven't ruined his life...

 

[whippetsrus]

To play Devil's Advocate, there are pros and cons to both complete diets and BARF diets. When I spoke to my neighbour who used to train greyhounds he nearly fell over when I mentioned giving them raw food as he said the problems of salmonella aren't worth the risk. There have also been tales from vets and vet nurses of dogs choking on raw food. It doesn't suit everyone and I'm not a convert, I'm afraid, though I know several people with whippets who swear by it and have happy healthy dogs. Each to their own.
As Masta pointed out though, I wouldn't restrict his food at that age - thinking back, I'm sure mine were on about 300g per day at that age, made up of complete food, cooked chicken breast (obviously no bones!), mince etc. They also used to have goat's milk now and again.

Aug 2008 USA

"Pedigree's Complete Nutrition Small Crunchy Bits dog food has been voluntarily recalled and pet owners are left wondering if their dog could have salmonella".

As we all know salmonella generally occurs from poor product process ie cooked chicken pies etc raw food is exceptionally safe especially if it has been frozen, re your greyhound trainer most feed a meat broth with brown bread ie a big pot of cheap meat and offal boiled in a back yard on a gas ring :x re choking there will most dogs choke on foreign objects toys etc i have found in 30 years of keeping dogs they tend to manage food without choking = your right each to their own but as i said before look back at all the posts re food problems, tummy problems,not keeping weight on, pancreatitis etc etc 90+% complete feeders

btw this is part of what my 6 dogs had tonight do you know what it is??

Freezing does not kill salmonella or campylobacter for that matter. It only renders them dormant.

 

[masta]

Is that tongue?
I'd just been feeding to guidelines on food packs corresponding to his weight. I gave more when I first got him to try to put some weight on but he just pooed all the time so I went back to guide amount. Nobody had said to me to feed as much as they'll eat. I heard and followed the opposite - that they have big appetites and small stomachs so feed little and often in controlled amounts. I tried letting him go for it just now and I'm not sure he'd ever stop eating if I let him decide - 4 handfuls of his 5 for the day in one sitting, I don't know where he puts it!!! I'm certainly not suggesting anyone's wrong - just that there are a confusing number of approaches for a first time puppy feeder. I think he looks better in build and coat after a few days of increased food though so I'll stick with this amount for now, if it's not perfectly healthy in a few weeks I'll get some lamb CSJ, and if that fails I'll get into the RAW thing (I've given him some chicken wings and he thought it was great but dragged them into the floor) - in summer we're moving to a house with a garden so that'll be more feasible.

I feel bad that I've maybe underfed him a touch by being a slave to the guidelines, but he's always been active and has seemed happy, no unexplained whining which could potentially have been hunger, so hopefully I haven't ruined his life...

there is no reason to feel bad! your puppy is a baby and some puppies eat lots and some dont you have to use your eyes if he is clearing his plate and looking for more and you say hes ribby feed him more or better forget what it says on the bag re amounts they are a guideline try supplementing his dry mix with corned beef (most pups love it) buy a tin and cut into cubes and hand feed. i advocate raw because i know it is the best for my dogs but have to feed what sits right with yourself but make sure he is well fed in his 1st year

the meat is Heart

 

[masta]

To play Devil's Advocate, there are pros and cons to both complete diets and BARF diets. When I spoke to my neighbour who used to train greyhounds he nearly fell over when I mentioned giving them raw food as he said the problems of salmonella aren't worth the risk. There have also been tales from vets and vet nurses of dogs choking on raw food. It doesn't suit everyone and I'm not a convert, I'm afraid, though I know several people with whippets who swear by it and have happy healthy dogs. Each to their own.
As Masta pointed out though, I wouldn't restrict his food at that age - thinking back, I'm sure mine were on about 300g per day at that age, made up of complete food, cooked chicken breast (obviously no bones!), mince etc. They also used to have goat's milk now and again.

Aug 2008 USA

"Pedigree's Complete Nutrition Small Crunchy Bits dog food has been voluntarily recalled and pet owners are left wondering if their dog could have salmonella".

As we all know salmonella generally occurs from poor product process ie cooked chicken pies etc raw food is exceptionally safe especially if it has been frozen, re your greyhound trainer most feed a meat broth with brown bread ie a big pot of cheap meat and offal boiled in a back yard on a gas ring :x re choking there will most dogs choke on foreign objects toys etc i have found in 30 years of keeping dogs they tend to manage food without choking = your right each to their own but as i said before look back at all the posts re food problems, tummy problems,not keeping weight on, pancreatitis etc etc 90+% complete feeders

btw this is part of what my 6 dogs had tonight do you know what it is??

Freezing does not kill salmonella or campylobacter for that matter. It only renders them dormant.

i never said it did, infact freezing kills very little Freezing can damage bacterial cells, but it won't kill them all off. as i said poor process is the enemy ie meat that has been stored in large quants maybe shipped from the other side of the globe thawed and not cooked at the right heat google salmonella in dogs you will find there has been several kibble recalls because of this problem i buy my meat frozen from my local butcher i defrost in the proper manner and feed all in one sitting any bacteria that is dormant from freezing is killed by dogs gut flora

 

[rls22]

I definitely agree with Masta that feeding the guideline amounts per the packet is generally not a good idea. As a 4.5 month old puppy I wouldn’t really want to be able to see any ribs at all – they should be chubby and well covered at this age. One of the things we say on our advice sheet is that you can never really feed a puppy too much. Ned who is now 8 months was fed 1 and 1/2lbs of tripe or mince with wholemeal mixer and 5 chicken wings a day over 3 meals at Silas’ age – he was and still is very greedy! This is now decreased to 1lb of tripe/mince with mixer and a rib/wing meal as well.

A case in point; one of the pups we bred was having their food weighed out as per the instructions and was as a result very underweight and was actually being fed the equivalent of 1/3 of the amount of its litter sister who was fed raw. Unless a dog is over weight then weighing out food is never a good idea in my opinion – the best way to go is by how the dog looks – as an adult; just able to see a couple of ribs and verterbrae and pin bones just covered and as a pup I like to see them well covered – they soon burn it off once they are able to go on more lengthy walks and runs.

I too am a big advocate of raw feeding, however also think there are some excellent completes on the market – JWB being one of them so you have definitely chosen well there. Chicken wings and tripe are generally very good for putting on weight and I bet Silas would really enjoy it; I’ve yet to meet a dog who doesn’t like tripe!

Don't feel bad about him being on the skinny side; if that was the advice you were given then you have only followed it, but I would definitely recommend upping the meal sizes from now on.

 

[weathergirls]

had the same problem with our Duffy found out she has an intolerance to dairy products

 

[WhipItDevo]

It's amazing how quick they respond to a diet change - I swear I can see a change each morning since upping intake!! I think it's the sleeker fur growing in that's creating the impression too, but he looks and feels better - cuddlier!! I don't give him any dairy anyway, but thanks for all your advice. I think he's "firming up" now actually so maybe it's just a combination of simultaneous food change and increase taking a while to settle down. I'll give him some tripe - he likes most things so I'm sure he'll love it. Thanks again - I think I've learnt my lesson, I'll go with the instincts more than the instructions a bit more from now on. Although, I have taken him on some fairly long walks since he doesn't complain and stays enthusiastic, but I have a feeling that's one area where you're meant to follow guidelines rather than his body language. Maybe I'll get another lesson and he'll get arthritis at 3... :unsure:

PS Before you tell off, they're just the odd hour long strolls (he sprints around quite a lot) a couple of times a week or so. Way too much?

 

[TTT]

To play Devil's Advocate, there are pros and cons to both complete diets and BARF diets. When I spoke to my neighbour who used to train greyhounds he nearly fell over when I mentioned giving them raw food as he said the problems of salmonella aren't worth the risk. There have also been tales from vets and vet nurses of dogs choking on raw food. It doesn't suit everyone and I'm not a convert, I'm afraid, though I know several people with whippets who swear by it and have happy healthy dogs. Each to their own.
As Masta pointed out though, I wouldn't restrict his food at that age - thinking back, I'm sure mine were on about 300g per day at that age, made up of complete food, cooked chicken breast (obviously no bones!), mince etc. They also used to have goat's milk now and again.

Aug 2008 USA

"Pedigree's Complete Nutrition Small Crunchy Bits dog food has been voluntarily recalled and pet owners are left wondering if their dog could have salmonella".

As we all know salmonella generally occurs from poor product process ie cooked chicken pies etc raw food is exceptionally safe especially if it has been frozen, re your greyhound trainer most feed a meat broth with brown bread ie a big pot of cheap meat and offal boiled in a back yard on a gas ring :x re choking there will most dogs choke on foreign objects toys etc i have found in 30 years of keeping dogs they tend to manage food without choking = your right each to their own but as i said before look back at all the posts re food problems, tummy problems,not keeping weight on, pancreatitis etc etc 90+% complete feeders

btw this is part of what my 6 dogs had tonight do you know what it is??

First time I bought some of this for my dogs I was slicing it and could not believe how much like steak it looked up close. Lean healthy and cheap protein. Tasty too - feeding raw has got me into eating liver too - cooked for me of course!

 

[meddling]

It's amazing how quick they respond to a diet change - I swear I can see a change each morning since upping intake!! I think it's the sleeker fur growing in that's creating the impression too, but he looks and feels better - cuddlier!! I don't give him any dairy anyway, but thanks for all your advice. I think he's "firming up" now actually so maybe it's just a combination of simultaneous food change and increase taking a while to settle down. I'll give him some tripe - he likes most things so I'm sure he'll love it. Thanks again - I think I've learnt my lesson, I'll go with the instincts more than the instructions a bit more from now on. Although, I have taken him on some fairly long walks since he doesn't complain and stays enthusiastic, but I have a feeling that's one area where you're meant to follow guidelines rather than his body language. Maybe I'll get another lesson and he'll get arthritis at 3... :unsure:
PS Before you tell off, they're just the odd hour long strolls (he sprints around quite a lot) a couple of times a week or so. Way too much?

He will remain enthusiastic on a walk, but an hour is too long for a 4.5 month pup, it can damage joints

I think the guidelines are 5 mins for every month of age...so 22 and a half minutes should suffice