Our French bulldog Rocco is nearly 2 he wasn’t treated like a baby as a pup and has been crate trained from the day we brought him home. Our eldest son often trod on him and played abit rough with him which caused him to go for his feet and chase him which he still does most of the time. But now he’s constantly pooing in the cage everytime we go out or at night so we wake up to it every morning and now he’s starting to wee too which is requiring the bedding to be cleaned every day as well as him, even when he isn’t in the cage and he goes to the toilet he will always try and eat it if we aren’t quick enough. We’ve tried giving him pineapple in his food which was suggested to us and this stopped it for a little while then he learnt to swallow it whole and then just picked around the pineapple , so then we tried leaving it down and put hot sauce on the poo which was also suggested but again he just licked the hot sauce off. He’s very stubborn and just doesn’t seem satisfied, he doesn’t just relax and lay down like a normal dog, he just constantly wants more. We did try leaving him out of the cage for a couple of nights which was fine until he decided he wanted more and done a poo on the carpet. He just doesn’t seem to be happy unless he is doing what he wants. He barks at passers by and also other dogs, and he’s started to get a little aggressive when he gets told off and doesn’t like it. The pooing in the cage used to just be of a night even after he’d been for a walk but now it’s getting to be everytime we are out. It’s getting to the point my youngest is scared of him, and neither of our kids have any time for him and he’s getting our family down. We don’t want to give up on him but we just don’t know what to do anymore. My kids are having to eat breakfast in their bedrooms before school because of the mess and smell he’s made and it just isn’t fair on them. We did try a few rehoming centres but they are currently full and he can’t be put ona waiting list. So any advice, tips or help would be greatly appreciated at this point because we are at the end of our tether. He has always been crate trained as a pup as we wanted him to have a safe space and didn’t trust him not to poo everywhere or to chew which we’ve been quite lucky with the chewing compared to some bits I’ve read about frenchies. Thank you in advance for any help received
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Help and advice needed please
- Thread starter Jade self
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If he is pooing in his crate constantly, it could be down to several possible reasons. Maybe it's an anxiety thing, but because he also tries to eat it, I'm wondering whether he was ever scolded or punished for toileting in the house? Too late to change that now obviously but for anyone else reading, that can make dogs wait until you aren't there, and toilet then - they don't realise you are cross because of the place, rather than the act of toileting. So they just seek or create opportunities to do it when you aren't there, in the hope of avoiding that reaction.
However, back to now. What I'd do is go right back to basics with toilet training. Make sure he has lots of opportunities to toilet outside when he needs to, and when he does, reward him immediately and generously. It has to be immediate to be clear that it's for toileting and not for anything else and it has to be generous to make it worth his while to hold his toilet until he is outside. Maybe use a new special reward that is only for outside toilets. And, to a dog, several tiny pieces of a treat are better than one piece of equivalent size. So outside toilets make it rain tiny pieces of frankfurter sausage! And because you are there with him to reward him, you can also pick up his poo so he can't eat it.
Obviously, take him out and make sure he has toileted before he ever has to be in his crate. You might need to play around with his feeding times to do that.
If he has an accident indoors, don't react at all. Just clean up and use an enzymatic cleaner to remove any trace of smell. Leave it down for 10 minutes to ensure the enzymes get to work before wiping up.
The other thing is the chasing and going for your children's feet - is that why your younger child is scared?
That sounds like it has become a game. So, make sure there are plenty of toys around. If he tries to play like this, get the children to redirect him to a toy. No running - that's the game you are trying to stop. So while they are redirecting to the toy, their feet are glued to the floor. Wellington boots are helpful!
However, back to now. What I'd do is go right back to basics with toilet training. Make sure he has lots of opportunities to toilet outside when he needs to, and when he does, reward him immediately and generously. It has to be immediate to be clear that it's for toileting and not for anything else and it has to be generous to make it worth his while to hold his toilet until he is outside. Maybe use a new special reward that is only for outside toilets. And, to a dog, several tiny pieces of a treat are better than one piece of equivalent size. So outside toilets make it rain tiny pieces of frankfurter sausage! And because you are there with him to reward him, you can also pick up his poo so he can't eat it.
Obviously, take him out and make sure he has toileted before he ever has to be in his crate. You might need to play around with his feeding times to do that.
If he has an accident indoors, don't react at all. Just clean up and use an enzymatic cleaner to remove any trace of smell. Leave it down for 10 minutes to ensure the enzymes get to work before wiping up.
The other thing is the chasing and going for your children's feet - is that why your younger child is scared?
That sounds like it has become a game. So, make sure there are plenty of toys around. If he tries to play like this, get the children to redirect him to a toy. No running - that's the game you are trying to stop. So while they are redirecting to the toy, their feet are glued to the floor. Wellington boots are helpful!
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There's quite a bit to unpick here:
In what way wasn't he treated like a baby? If he arrived at around 8 weeks old, in effect he was a baby, so maybe he didn't get the reassurance and feeling of safety he needed.
Being trodden on and treated roughly could also have added to his feelings of being stressed, and he could now be very anxious about those feet approaching him and feel he needs to act proactively, i.e. chase those feet away. Your son may need to be much more hands-off and respecting of Rocco's space to try to regain his trust. He can still play, but in a non-contact way such as a game of tug, or to do some basic (but fun) training with him.
A 'stubborn' dog is often one with unmet needs, or one who has found that being that way will, eventually, get what he wants. Not being able to relax also suggests he is understimulated, unhappy, and/or stressed. Could you give a complete run-down of what his day looks like, i.e. when he goes into and comes out of his crate, what walks he gets (on- or off lead, how long for, and so on), training/play times, how long he is left for? And what about the rest of the time - does he get to cuddle on your lap, share a sofa with you, generally interact? What sort of things does he want or get stubborn over?
What sort of things do you tell him off for? Generally, when a dog is doing something you don't like, the trick is to prevent him from doing it (e.g. putting away stuff he nicks or chews), and giving him a better alternative. An example: my dog was allowed on the sofa, but not when we were on it (he wasn't good at sharing space). If I 'told him off' for being on the sofa, or 'ordered' him off it, he would be very defensive and could turn aggressive. However, I taught 'off' and 'on your bed' as a 'trick' (happy voice, reward when he came off the sofa and another when he went on his bed - training started when he wasn't really settled on the sofa so reluctant to move), and a happy 'off' would get him off straight away. Turning training round like this can work for just about everything - it's about working out how to make your dog want to do what you want him to, and not do it grudgingly just because you told him to.
It might be that he regards the crate as a prison rather than a safe space - does he ever go in it on his own accord?
Also, how many times a day does he poo, and what do you feed him? Some dog food is full of cheap filler, and that means he'll be pooing a lot more than if he was on a quality food. Also, high-quality food (particularly raw) generally leads to smaller, firmer, less smelly poos, which would certainly be a good start. It might also be worth getting a vet check to make sure there's no medical reason causing all this pooing.
In what way wasn't he treated like a baby? If he arrived at around 8 weeks old, in effect he was a baby, so maybe he didn't get the reassurance and feeling of safety he needed.
Being trodden on and treated roughly could also have added to his feelings of being stressed, and he could now be very anxious about those feet approaching him and feel he needs to act proactively, i.e. chase those feet away. Your son may need to be much more hands-off and respecting of Rocco's space to try to regain his trust. He can still play, but in a non-contact way such as a game of tug, or to do some basic (but fun) training with him.
A 'stubborn' dog is often one with unmet needs, or one who has found that being that way will, eventually, get what he wants. Not being able to relax also suggests he is understimulated, unhappy, and/or stressed. Could you give a complete run-down of what his day looks like, i.e. when he goes into and comes out of his crate, what walks he gets (on- or off lead, how long for, and so on), training/play times, how long he is left for? And what about the rest of the time - does he get to cuddle on your lap, share a sofa with you, generally interact? What sort of things does he want or get stubborn over?
What sort of things do you tell him off for? Generally, when a dog is doing something you don't like, the trick is to prevent him from doing it (e.g. putting away stuff he nicks or chews), and giving him a better alternative. An example: my dog was allowed on the sofa, but not when we were on it (he wasn't good at sharing space). If I 'told him off' for being on the sofa, or 'ordered' him off it, he would be very defensive and could turn aggressive. However, I taught 'off' and 'on your bed' as a 'trick' (happy voice, reward when he came off the sofa and another when he went on his bed - training started when he wasn't really settled on the sofa so reluctant to move), and a happy 'off' would get him off straight away. Turning training round like this can work for just about everything - it's about working out how to make your dog want to do what you want him to, and not do it grudgingly just because you told him to.
It might be that he regards the crate as a prison rather than a safe space - does he ever go in it on his own accord?
Also, how many times a day does he poo, and what do you feed him? Some dog food is full of cheap filler, and that means he'll be pooing a lot more than if he was on a quality food. Also, high-quality food (particularly raw) generally leads to smaller, firmer, less smelly poos, which would certainly be a good start. It might also be worth getting a vet check to make sure there's no medical reason causing all this pooing.
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There's some super advice above, and I won't add to that, but this is what stands out for me:
This dog didn't choose you - you chose him. He didn't ask to spend time in a crate or to be trodden on or told off. What I'm saying sounds a bit harsh, I know, but my advice would be to sit down as a family and ask yourselves what part this little fellow has in family life, because from where I'm standing, it sounds pretty miserable for everyone.
The companionship of a dog - any dog - is a joy and a privilege, but you have to both put in the effort and feel genuine empathy and love for a dog before you get anything real in return. If that's not you, then you need to pursue the rehoming option to give him a chance of the life he - and every dog - deserves.
I think you are right about this - your dog sounds profoundly unhappy.
This dog didn't choose you - you chose him. He didn't ask to spend time in a crate or to be trodden on or told off. What I'm saying sounds a bit harsh, I know, but my advice would be to sit down as a family and ask yourselves what part this little fellow has in family life, because from where I'm standing, it sounds pretty miserable for everyone.
The companionship of a dog - any dog - is a joy and a privilege, but you have to both put in the effort and feel genuine empathy and love for a dog before you get anything real in return. If that's not you, then you need to pursue the rehoming option to give him a chance of the life he - and every dog - deserves.
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I can but agree with Feverfew. You really need to do some soul searching and be prepared to make decisions to benefit Rocco. Dogs are sociable animals and, from what you’ve stated, it would appear that he’s almost excluded from integration within the family. That’s not his fault. I appreciate that this may sound harsh but I’m thinking of Rocco as he can’t make choices.
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The Book Your Dog Wishes You Would Read, by Louise Glazebrook might be a useful read. I confess to not having read it myself yet, but from what I hear, it has good advice on building a relationship with a dog and understanding their communications and their needs. The emphasis is very much on the humans and what they can do to help their dog really enjoy life as a companion animal. It might just help to repair the current relationship with Rocco.
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Whereabouts in the country are you ....
Your right it is miserable for everyone. Me and my partner have grown up with dogs all our lives and between us we’ve never known a dog to behave in the way he does. We’ve tried putting effort and love into him and he does show improvement for a couple days but then he still always wanting more. We’ve tried rehoming him but no local centres near us have space and can’t help. We’ve tried listing him online as a final option and being totally honest with people but no one wants him. My children don’t even look at him anymore, we know we are going to have him a long time we are just trying to do the best which work for him and us. I’ve not messaged on here to be judged I’ve messaged for advise for different things to try and tips to what we haven’t done already. It’s not fair on him or my family, the situation is getting everyone down
Bedfordshire
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No judgment from me ...I have sent you a private message ....kara
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I don't think any of the replies were intended to be judgemental. I hope you find a solution.
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It’s a very sad situation and you have my sympathies. As for Rocco, I can only go by what I’ve seen on T.V.. Won’t the R.S.P.C.A. take him on?
It’s a tough situation for all of us, it’s put a massive strain on us as a family. Nearly two years we’ve had this and tried the advice given to us by forums, vets and behavioural trainers and other breeders and unfortunately for us it basically comes down to his personality and his stubbornness, which a behaviourist herself said you can’t change with no amount of training etc. he’s been vet checked so it isn’t medical and there is small periods of time where he will improve for a day or two but it’s always like he’s wanting more. For example we’ve upped his food because he loosing weight due to the rating of his poo, so he getting fed 2 big meals a day and he’s still searching for more and continue eating it after he didn’t for two days. We’ve tried blue cross, rspca, dogs trust and local
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I don't really subscribe to the idea that dogs are stubborn. I believe there are three main reason why they get that label for not doing what we want them to do.
In no particular order - it is sometimes because they don't understand what is expected of them, so that's where training comes in. It is sometimes because the desire or motivation to do what we are asking is not as strong as the desire or motivation to do what they are doing already, so that's where you need to increase their rewards. And it's sometimes because we are trying to get them to do something that clashes with their inherent drives - we have selectively bred dogs for thousands of years to do a particular job, it's for this reason you don't see terriers herding sheep.
We have given you some suggestions for what to do regarding the children, have any of these helped?
I'm not sure I understand what you mean regarding the food, did he stop eating for two days but he is eating it now and wanting more? If he is still hungry, can you supplement the food with some cooked vegetables to fill him up more? Or did you mean something different?
In no particular order - it is sometimes because they don't understand what is expected of them, so that's where training comes in. It is sometimes because the desire or motivation to do what we are asking is not as strong as the desire or motivation to do what they are doing already, so that's where you need to increase their rewards. And it's sometimes because we are trying to get them to do something that clashes with their inherent drives - we have selectively bred dogs for thousands of years to do a particular job, it's for this reason you don't see terriers herding sheep.
We have given you some suggestions for what to do regarding the children, have any of these helped?
I'm not sure I understand what you mean regarding the food, did he stop eating for two days but he is eating it now and wanting more? If he is still hungry, can you supplement the food with some cooked vegetables to fill him up more? Or did you mean something different?
He stopped eating the poo for two days but carried on looking for food, but after them two days he then started eating his poo again. We are giving him bigger portions with raw meat and cooked vegetables. He’s satisfied with change for a day or two at times then just goes back. He’s had more then enough treats because we’ve gone back to basics and treating it as nothing in life is free. As for the kids getting involved more they aren’t interested, my youngest is scared of him and my oldest ain’t bothered by him in the slightest. The best thing for Rocco is to rehome him but we aren’t having any luck and rescue centres can’t help
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I think reaching the firm decision to rehome Rocco is a step forward for you and your family. It seems from where I'm standing that your relationship with him has broken down completely, so rehoming sounds like the right decision for everyone.
It is now your job to care for a dog who will, after a period of time, hopefully not too long, be moving on. Maybe rather than being critical of his personality and behaviour, and trying it change to what you want it to be, you can accept Rocco for who he is at this moment in time. Your job now is to care for him as best you can, as you would any vulnerable being.
It seems to me there is a lot of emotion - anxiety , guilt, anger - being projected onto Rocco, and if you can step back and be more neutral with him, it may ease your feelings about how difficult this has been. Perhaps see him as a foster dog, or a friend's dog you are caring for temporarily before he goes to his new home. You don't have to love him! There will be a space in rescue eventually, even if it takes a few months. The important thing is that the decision has been made.
Yes, it will be messy if he's pooing in the house, and difficult as you have to separate him and your children, and annoying if he is looking for food all the time (many anxious and insecure dogs revert to this behaviour by the way, and it's probably nothing to do with how much he is fed). You can manage those things, eg using stairgates to separate him from your children and not bothering him when he is busy looking for scraps - that's just 'what he does', not a character flaw.
I would even say, don't worry about training or behavioural modification or looking for advice from the internet - apart from what you see on here, most of it is terrible anyway, including the horrible, punitive 'nothing in life is free' - a philosophy that actually makes me feel physically sick.
You are a kind person. Just do what needs to be done, in a conscious and practical way, rather than expecting things to change. Just do your best for him while he's with you, and then give him a cheerful farewell when he moves on, knowing that you cared for him as best you could, and did the right thing.
It is now your job to care for a dog who will, after a period of time, hopefully not too long, be moving on. Maybe rather than being critical of his personality and behaviour, and trying it change to what you want it to be, you can accept Rocco for who he is at this moment in time. Your job now is to care for him as best you can, as you would any vulnerable being.
It seems to me there is a lot of emotion - anxiety , guilt, anger - being projected onto Rocco, and if you can step back and be more neutral with him, it may ease your feelings about how difficult this has been. Perhaps see him as a foster dog, or a friend's dog you are caring for temporarily before he goes to his new home. You don't have to love him! There will be a space in rescue eventually, even if it takes a few months. The important thing is that the decision has been made.
Yes, it will be messy if he's pooing in the house, and difficult as you have to separate him and your children, and annoying if he is looking for food all the time (many anxious and insecure dogs revert to this behaviour by the way, and it's probably nothing to do with how much he is fed). You can manage those things, eg using stairgates to separate him from your children and not bothering him when he is busy looking for scraps - that's just 'what he does', not a character flaw.
I would even say, don't worry about training or behavioural modification or looking for advice from the internet - apart from what you see on here, most of it is terrible anyway, including the horrible, punitive 'nothing in life is free' - a philosophy that actually makes me feel physically sick.
You are a kind person. Just do what needs to be done, in a conscious and practical way, rather than expecting things to change. Just do your best for him while he's with you, and then give him a cheerful farewell when he moves on, knowing that you cared for him as best you could, and did the right thing.
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Sorry I misunderstood about the poo eating.
Have you tried a little pineapple in his food, apparently that works for poo eating in some dogs. As Feverfew says, even if it isn't long term, the easier you can make life for him and yourselves, the better.
Have you tried a little pineapple in his food, apparently that works for poo eating in some dogs. As Feverfew says, even if it isn't long term, the easier you can make life for him and yourselves, the better.
Yeah we’ve tried pineapple, he stopped for a little while and then used to try eat the pineapple out of it.
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What food are you feeding him, and have you tried changing foods?
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