Hopefully Puppies ?

[Boxing Helena]

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Here's a picture taken today, from my Alek ( Ch.Boxing Helena's Art Groupie ) who was bred to my French import Mbo ( Multi Ch.Dixmoor Top Of The Pops )

I'm wondering if she is pregant or not ????

Alek is my very special girl, because she is one of the last daughters of Ch.Nevedith Justa Jesta. ( my all time favourit whippet )

She is now 7 years and will have her final litter.

This will be her second litter for my kennel ( she had her first litter in France - Chawia kennels )

3 years ago I bred her to ch.Nevedith Eefa Empra, what gave me a litter bred back to Jesta of course, as Empra is also his son.

This time I used my own Multi Ch.Dixmoor Top Of The Pops, who was already used many times in other kennels, but I never used him myself.

Why ? well to be honoust , I have no idea.

I always think the grass is greener on the other side and used males from outside , but I have to change my ideas.

I always plan my litters with my bitches, and look for males that fit. ( and only a few times I used my own males )

But now having good males myself, it is time I start using them (myself).

I'm curious to hear how most of you are planning your litters ?

With the first look to your bitch, and trying to find a male, or with the first look at your dog ?

 

[Avalonia]

I'm curious to hear how most of you are planning your litters ? With the first look to your bitch, and trying to find a male, or with the first look at your dog ?

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Let me start this one off Bart by saying that we are probably totally unconventional and we are certainly the opposite of you, because we have what I would suggest might be the best or if not very near to the best kennel of entire English bloodlined whippet MALES in the world. We have sons -- all of them champions here in Canada and some also with European titles sired by: Eng.Ch. Nevedith Justa Jesta, Cdn.Ch. Nevedith Local Lancer, Eng.Ch. Nevedith Eefa Empra, Dk.Swed.Ch. Nevedith Veefa Vagabond, Cdn.Ch. Glastonbury Victoria'n Albert (a son of Eng.Am.Cdn.Ch. Nevedith Up Town Guy) and Cdn.Fin.Nor.World Ch. Avalonia Wheatfield. We have long believed that the male is far more important than the bitch and for that reason we have built our breeding program and its strength on the backs of our males. We do not stand our dogs at public stud but have provided stud service to a small number of breeders here in Canada (and one in the US) with compatible bloodlines.

I am so glad you have finally used Mbo! And hopefully you will use your Empra son now as well. You have beautiful bitches, but in my view you have outstanding dogs you must use!

Lanny

We have never used a dog other than one we own. Not once in 25 years.

 

[05whippet]

Well....DEF in whelp or else she has swallowed a rather large cushion!!!! (w00t)

Good luck for the forthcoming whelping. :luck: :thumbsup:

I know everyone has different views when planning litters,but in my opinion I think that the most important thing to do when thinking about breeding is that you have to be honest with yourself and know your bitch's strengths and weaknesses and then look for a sire who will compliment her and be strong where she is weak,it is all too easy to become kennel blind especially if you have had good success in the past and fall into the habit of thinking that no matter what you breed it will be a super example & excel in the ring. I am also not a huge fan of line-breeding & certainly not very tight line-breeding,I would much prefer to "type" breed but this is just my personal preference and so far it has worked well for us, though we do tend to breed our whippets exactly the same way that we breed our Thorough-breds and look for a male who brings something to the mix depending on what you are breeding or looking for. As I say this is just what I personally do but I do think the biggest factor that plays a part is honesty with yourself about your dogs.

 

[shenace]

Hmmmmm....... possibly preggy???? Maybe you could get a scan to be on the safe side (w00t) (w00t)

Crikey - she is the spitting image of my Molly who has just had babies :wub:

 

[Seraphina]

To breed my bitch I first consider the points that I want to see improved in the pups. Then I look at dogs I like, but if they do not have strength where my bitch is weak, I would not use them. If I find a dog that passed this first test, then I look at the pedigree and hope I like what I find and also looking at both of the dogs in detail. At first I look at only 4 generations pedigree, and if I am happy I look through further generations, bearing in mind that each generation back is less and less relevant. In the past finding ancestors further back was not always easy. Now, thanks to the wonderful TWA it is just matter of click with a mouse :thumbsup:

Ideally I would do the same with a dog. But that of-course, is not so easy. While for my bitch, at least theoretically, I can use any dog within Australia or even any dog in the world (by AI), but to breed my own litter with my dog I would need to own compatible bitch.

If considering using my own dog I would probably also look at his sons, as well as other dogs, for comparison and only use him over particular bitch if I thought none of the others would suit the bitch better.

 

[georgina]

Well Alek certainly looks full of babies, lots of luck with the birth :luck:

Some great breeding advice given to me (IMO) was to plan ahead not just the next litter but future litters - with this in mind it may take 2 or 3 or even more generations to get to where you want to be.

There seem to be fantastic dogs and bitches that have produced really well but not necessarily been a champion and of course there are many champions that also produce well, so looking at progeny and their pedigree is IMO important as well as looking at your bitch, proposed dogs and pedigrees.

Nature is wonderful but unpredictable isnt it - no doubt most of us do lots and lots of homework and then hope and pray it works as planned.

 

[UKUSA]

Without wishing to start another health issue and I dont, in this country the producers have been line bred dogs, Hillsdown Fergal, Akeferry Jimmey, Laguna Ligonier,Patsys Cavalier, Dondelayo Buckaroo ,Pencloe Dutch Gold, the Oakbarks, the Nimrodels just to name a few. There certainly have been wonderful outcross champions and a few spring to mind however they did not produce on.

Personally my girls at 7 do not have litters they have done enough for me and are in little old lady retirement except for veteran classes.

Nicky

 

[Angela Bayley]

Here's a picture taken today, from my Alek ( Ch.Boxing Helena's Art Groupie ) who was bred to my French import Mbo ( Multi Ch.Dixmoor Top Of The Pops ) I'm wondering if she is pregant or not ???? 

Alek is my very special girl, because she is one of the last daughters of Ch.Nevedith Justa Jesta. ( my all time favourit whippet )

She is now 7 years and will have her final litter.

This will be her second litter for my kennel ( she had her first litter in France - Chawia kennels )

3 years ago I bred her to ch.Nevedith Eefa Empra, what gave me a litter bred back to Jesta of course, as Empra is also his son.

This time I used my own Multi Ch.Dixmoor Top Of The Pops, who was already used many times in other kennels, but I never used him myself.

Why ? well to be honoust , I have no idea.

I always think the grass is greener on the other side and used males from outside , but I have to change my ideas.

I always plan my litters with my bitches, and look for males that fit. ( and only a few times I used my own males )

But now having good males myself, it is time I start using them (myself).

I'm curious to hear how most of you are planning your litters ?

With the first look to your bitch, and trying to find a male, or with the first look at your dog ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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I'm afraid I plan my litters firstly on temperament, this may be a minority view, I have a loving sweet natured bitch and I do not believe you can pick a stud from the ringside alone.

My opinion alone

Angela

 

[05whippet]

Here's a picture taken today, from my Alek ( Ch.Boxing Helena's Art Groupie ) who was bred to my French import Mbo ( Multi Ch.Dixmoor Top Of The Pops ) I'm wondering if she is pregant or not ???? 

Alek is my very special girl, because she is one of the last daughters of Ch.Nevedith Justa Jesta. ( my all time favourit whippet )

She is now 7 years and will have her final litter.

This will be her second litter for my kennel ( she had her first litter in France - Chawia kennels )

3 years ago I bred her to ch.Nevedith Eefa Empra, what gave me a litter bred back to Jesta of course, as Empra is also his son.

This time I used my own Multi Ch.Dixmoor Top Of The Pops, who was already used many times in other kennels, but I never used him myself.

Why ? well to be honoust , I have no idea.

I always think the grass is greener on the other side and used males from outside , but I have to change my ideas.

I always plan my litters with my bitches, and look for males that fit. ( and only a few times I used my own males )

But now having good males myself, it is time I start using them (myself).

I'm curious to hear how most of you are planning your litters ?

With the first look to your bitch, and trying to find a male, or with the first look at your dog ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I'm afraid I plan my litters firstly on temperament, this may be a minority view, I have a loving sweet natured bitch and I do not believe you can pick a stud from the ringside alone.

My opinion alone

Angela

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I completely agree with you Angela :thumbsup: but then I would NEVER breed from anything that had a suspect temp anyway.

 

[chelynnah]

I'm afraid I plan my litters firstly on temperament, this may be a minority view, I have a loving sweet natured bitch and I do not believe you can pick a stud from the ringside alone.
My opinion alone

Angela

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Why do you start with 'I'm afraid' and say it may be a minority view. I don't think it is at all!

I believe that priority should be given to temperament, health and conformation in relatively equal amounts, and when I bred my girl (my first breeding), temperament was one of my priorities. If they all ended up being pets rather than shown, then so be it. I was lucky enough to find a sire that had everything I wanted and have been very fortunate to get what I had envisioned from the litter, sound temperaments, good health (touch wood), and what I really wanted to do was keep type, but build substance and we've accomplished that as well.

Anyway, having only bred once and only keeping bitches, of course I would look for a dog to suit my bitch as I don't keep dogs. And my priorities would be those 3 things in combination.

Wendy

 

[Seraphina]

I'm afraid I plan my litters firstly on temperament, this may be a minority view, I have a loving sweet natured bitch and I do not believe you can pick a stud from the ringside alone.
My opinion alone

Angela

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ABSOLUTELY :thumbsup: Temperament is very important.

I would never breed from a bitch I would not want to have living in my house with me. I certainly would not use dog who does not have a good temperament. But i found that temperaments develop, change with time. Mad pup that used to make brave attempt to knock all my visitors to the ground has grown into sedate lady, who saves her exuberant welcoming for only handful of good friends. While the shy little girl that went into pet home is now quite outgoing.

But I wonder how people asses the temperament of a dog they want to use at stud?

 

[Ms Molly]

I agree with Nicky. All the good old lines were line bred, and look at any successful kennel and I bet my bottom dollar their dogs are either line bred, or bred on phenotype.

Yes, we have to outcross at times, however it is in the second generation when you go back in, that the rewards are reaped.

Anyone who outcrosses on a regular basis, for one reason or another, more often than not cannot guarantee what to expect as it opens up pandoras box with various inconsistences.

Molly

 

[Seraphina]

Considering that, at least here in OZ, all dogs bred here are related it would be impossible to do real outcross. Since the debate on k9 couple of weeks ago I decided, just for the fun of it, if I could find an Australian bred dog that has no common ancestors with my girls. Haven't found one as yet. OK there are some lines I did not go into as yet.

Although in more recent times people do not inbreed as much as they did in the past, when you look few generations back certain dogs are there over and over again, which means our genetic diversity is unlikely to be great. The few imports coming to this country are big help, and we need to very grateful to those people who at huge expense do bring them into the country.

 

[elmaro]

I took this from someones web site and I think it sums it up pretty well...

In-Breeding and other Breeding Methods

One of the most hotly talked about topics with regard to pure-bred dogs is the use of in-breeding. This is a term that is often misused and is extremely misunderstood.

 

Part of the misunderstandings come from differences in the way the terms are used within the scientific/medical field, and how it is commonly used by breeders. These are the most commonly accepted definitions used by serious dog breeders and will be the definitions used within this article.

 

In-breeding - This is the breeding of closely related animals. Brother-Sister, Parent-Offspring, ½ brother - ½ Sister.

 

Line-breeding - This is the breeding of animals that share common ancestors but are not closely related. For example the dogs may share a common great-grandparent.

 

Out-cross - This is generally considered the breeding of animals with no common ancestors within the first 4 or 5 generations.

I've always been taught that line breeding is the preferred method as with in-breeding you run the risk of doubling up on faults (but mind you if its done its a very quick way of finding out your weaknesses in your breeding lines) while outcrossing as Ms Molly says opens up a big can of worms as you don't know what you are getting and you end up with a big mish mash of genes...

As a dobermann breeder we always tried to go in twice and then out once ... however that wasn't followed to the letter as it depends upon what is available to breed with at the time.

Mind you some of the worst breeders I've come across (dobermann breeders) were those who planned their litters on paper without taking into consideration the strengths and weaknesses of the dog and bitch involved, it can look as great as you want on paper, but if dog and a bitch have the same fault (for example weak hindquarters) guess what .... you're going to get weak hindquarters!!!

Just my opinion ... :cheers:

 

[patsy]

I took this from someones web site and I think it sums it up pretty well...
In-Breeding and other Breeding Methods

One of the most hotly talked about topics with regard to pure-bred dogs is the use of in-breeding. This is a term that is often misused and is extremely misunderstood.

 

Part of the misunderstandings come from differences in the way the terms are used within the scientific/medical field, and how it is commonly used by breeders. These are the most commonly accepted definitions used by serious dog breeders and will be the definitions used within this article.

 

In-breeding - This is the breeding of closely related animals. Brother-Sister, Parent-Offspring, ½ brother - ½ Sister.

 

Line-breeding - This is the breeding of animals that share common ancestors but are not closely related. For example the dogs may share a common great-grandparent.

 

Out-cross - This is generally considered the breeding of animals with no common ancestors within the first 4 or 5 generations.

I've always been taught that line breeding is the preferred method as with in-breeding you run the risk of doubling up on faults (but mind you if its done its a very quick way of finding out your weaknesses in your breeding lines) while outcrossing as Ms Molly says opens up a big can of worms as you don't know what you are getting and you end up with a big mish mash of genes...

As a dobermann breeder we always tried to go in twice and then out once ... however that wasn't followed to the letter as it depends upon what is available to breed with at the time.

Mind you some of the worst breeders I've come across (dobermann breeders) were those who planned their litters on paper without taking into consideration the strengths and weaknesses of the dog and bitch involved, it can look as great as you want on paper, but if dog and a bitch have the same fault (for example weak hindquarters) guess what .... you're going to get weak hindquarters!!!

Just my opinion ... :cheers:

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Could not agree more with you and Molly

 

[Seraphina]

Out-cross - This is generally considered the breeding of animals with no common ancestors within the first 4 or 5 generations.[/color]

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The problem with this definition is that even if you do not double up on anything withing the first 4-5 generations but further back you find that just about every line has the same well known dog in there somewhere and also lot of breeding like mother to son, and father to daughter, as well as two full siblings, you still have very inbred dogs with very little of genetic diversity.

I thought my Claudia should have quite good genetic diversity, until I made a list of all the names. Do you think she is not inbred?

Claudia's multiples in 6 generations

Taejaan Read my Lips 2x

Noholme Shadi Ladye 2x

Noholme Pepper Mill 5x

Noholme Electric Blue 2x

Noholme Drum Majorette 4x

Martinique Sky Bright 3x

Martinique Jazz Spirit 2x

Martinique Geisha Rag 2x

Denhills Deligate 2x

in 4 generations

none

 

[Boxing Helena]

Personally my girls at 7 do not have litters they have done enough for me and are in little old lady retirement except for veteran classes.Nicky

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In Belgium we are allowed to breed with our dogs till 10years of age.

Personally I think that's too old.

But it all depends on the bitch herself.

For me, Alek who is 7 is in perfect health and when you see her play and run she looks like a 2 year old bitch.

She had only 2 litters, very easely, so I see no problem in breeding her at 7 years.

I don't understand the argument " she has done enough for me ... so she doesn't have to have another litter ?? "

 

[Boxing Helena]

Thanks everyone for their replys.

Very interesting to read.

First of all, I also consider temperament as VERY importend.

( but I also think that most whippets do have this wonderfull and sweet caracter )

so that is defenetly not a big problem.

But I also think a whippet needs to have it all, the temperament, the type and the soundness. All of this is crucial to be a true whippet.