How Big Is Your Whippet?

[Strike Whippets]

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So no I do not consider my own dogs big but when you see them compared to some scrawny little racing bred dogs which, to me, look like something out of Belsen and are too small (there is such a thing as too small as well as too big!!), I know which I prefer!!

Just out of interest ......HOW can there be a "too small a Whippet" ?? .....when they ORIGINALLY started of soooo small ?? ......There are Whippets recorded at 5lbs ........Hmmmm know which I prefer :- " .........Whippets I thought were designed as poaching dog's, then small racers ........Scrawny or not, my lot look more like the original Whippets than these 23" 40lb-ders, Their movement and constructions great (has to be fab to be able to run correctly :thumbsup: ) .....can run faster .....and will all work and out class these huge dog's .........As I said I know which I prefer :thumbsup: ......

 

[jools]

Just to say that this thread has been one of the most intersting and facinating threads I have followed on K9. Apart from people implying that decent honest people would cross their whippets with greyhounds, I think that everyone has added something of great value to the discussion.

I would much prefer to have all my whippets towards the top side of the standard (I have seen too many exhibitors struggle with bottom end of the standard, really nice dogs) BUT, I love my whippets, and if I make an incorrect choice then TOUGH. If the judges start throwing Riva out on size, then I will stop showing him - as we will come up against 2 much larger bitches when he is out of junior, it will be interesting!! I will let you know what happens come August/September!! If I forget, Beaker will let you know, she has come across it often enough.

A bit late, but a very Happy Christmas and a Happy and Succesful New Year to you all.

 

[mikadene]

Just to say that  this thread has been one of the most intersting and facinating threads I have followed on K9. Apart from people implying that decent honest people would cross their whippets with greyhounds, I think that everyone has added something of great value to the discussion.I would much prefer to have all my whippets towards the top side of the standard (I have seen too many exhibitors struggle with bottom end of the standard, really nice dogs) BUT, I love my whippets, and if I make an incorrect choice then TOUGH. If the judges start throwing Riva out on size, then I will stop showing him - as we will come up against 2 much larger bitches when he is out of junior, it will be interesting!! I will let you know what happens come August/September!! If I forget, Beaker will let you know, she has come across it often enough.

A bit late, but a very Happy Christmas and a Happy and Succesful New Year to you all.

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Hi Jools,

I didn't say they definatly did cross breed just mentioned it and threw it in for people to talk about. I will have to make a New years resolution to stop winding folks up and getting them going he he he.

Mike

 

[dessie]

Just out of interest ......HOW can there be a "too small a Whippet" ?? .....when they ORIGINALLY started of soooo small ?? ......There are Whippets recorded at 5lbs ........

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Read your breed standard. We are guided by height not weight. If those who advocate anything over 20" (dogs) is TOO big then anything under 18.5" (dogs again) must be TOO small!!!!! Duh! You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work that out!! LOL!!!

Or, if you don't understand that and keep bitches, anything over 18.5"/19" (depending whether you are working to the current or revised standard) is TOO big and anything under 17.5" is TOO small.

One would presume that there will be a relative height:weight ratio, taking a mean average but the standard doesn't take that into consideration. Neither does the standard actually expound on what a Whippet should be used for except that it is "highly adaptable in domestic and sporting surroundings" ............. very ambiguous!!!

 

[dessie]

That's part of why the American Standard states that more than 1/2 inch over or under shall disqualify.

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How many more times ................in the UK we have NO disqualifying faults, it is up to the discretion of the judge to judge the dogs as they see fit. The only reason a dog can be asked to leave the ring is if it bites someone!!!!!

 

[jools]

[SIZE=14pt]I have come across a few judges I would like to have bitten,[/SIZE] does that rule apply to handlers as well as dogs Dessie?!!

(I didn't feel inclined to bite them because I didn't win -[SIZE=14pt] they were just so flaming inept!!)[/SIZE]

 

[Strike Whippets]

Read your breed standard. We are guided by height not weight. If those who advocate anything over 20" (dogs) is TOO big then anything under 18.5" (dogs again) must be TOO small!!!!! Duh! You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work that out!! LOL!!!

LOL ......I never said the "breed standard" was guided by weight .......I for one don't know if these 5lb Whippets wern't to the breed standard height, I just know that I prefer the look of the original type Whippets :thumbsup: ........As usual the height topic will go round in circle's, with different type of Whippet owner's having very different view's, .......but as expressed earlier ......it's a real shame that so many Whippets are getting bigger and losing the "true" Whippet type ........give me a little 'un anyday

 

[aslan]

I like to argue 'for' standard height because:

The reason we have a standard is to keep a whippet looking like a whippet.

When you read the greyhound standard in direct comparison with the whippet standard you will find that the single most distinguishing difference is height. All other differences are very slight variations.

Whilst no-one would actually come out and say "I'm trying to breed bigger whippets", by using the 21-23 inch dogs and 20-22 inch bitches and their progeny and justifying the size issue by saying "it's only one part of the standard" we are all perpetuating the problem.

By actively choosing to use a tall sire (esp if your bitch is on the top side) then you are taking a known risk.

By breeding from your oversized bitch (even if you choose a small dog) you are taking the risk.

If we all keep on taking the risks and forgiving size then we will end up with bigger whippets which is what is happening. If we don't actively seek to breed for size at some point we will lose the smaller dogs to choose from.

However -

so often we are limited by our circumstances. I put three years of research and all my savings into importing Cash - he's a bit tall for my liking but how could I not use him at stud ... that would be all that money wasted!

If one were excessively rich and had the space to accommodate all the dogs you weren't going to breed from because of height then you could just import another and another until you got it right or just keep putting the tall bitches 'out the back' until you got one of the right size (with the right conformation to go with it).

But most of us do not have the luxuries of excess money and space.

Most of us have to try and do the best with what we've got.

 

[Strike Whippets]

Or, if you don't understand that and keep bitches, anything over 18.5"/19" (depending whether you are working to the current or revised standard) is TOO big and anything under 17.5" is TOO small.

LOL :sweating: Does this mean ALL of my racer's and 1 show bred are within the standard ?? (w00t)

 

[Seraphina]

Out of curiosity, does anyone think this is just a trend? When my Mum was showing Dobes over a 20 year period there was phases where larger dogs where winning but she stook it out and strived to keep her dogs within the breed standard and was rewarded justly. Do you think it will pass with time or do you think that the dogs winning are actually the finest of specimens and just so happen to be taller?

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I hope so, it only takes few good judges who realise that some dogs in the ring are couple of inches over the standard and start putting up the smaller ones. :thumbsup:

 

[mally]

IMO dogs should be measured before entering the show ring and if they are over size disqualified Simple!!!

sorry if this remark offends anyone.

 

[chelynnah]

That's part of why the American Standard states that more than 1/2 inch over or under shall disqualify.

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How many more times ................in the UK we have NO disqualifying faults, it is up to the discretion of the judge to judge the dogs as they see fit. The only reason a dog can be asked to leave the ring is if it bites someone!!!!!

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Dessie - I wasn't saying we do - you need to put my quote back in the context of what I was replying to :- "

Jo said "But I would hate to see automatic disqualification for dogs a fraction outside the top end measurement." to which I answered that that's why the US allows a 'fraction' outside. No one said we DO disqualify - that has nothign to do with what Jo said or *I* said.

Wendy

 

[Seraphina]

Dawn:If you study pedigrees you will see that often the top winning dogs (all breeds) are F1 outcrosses but they oftimes fail to pass on the 'winning streak' to their offspring.

Absolutely right!

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The Hybrid Vigour is manifested by bigger and stronger animal, with stronger immune system, but not necessarily "better" in conformation. If you breed badly cow hocked bitch to badly cow hocked dog; their progeny will very likely also be cow hocked, even if this mating was a outcross of 2 inbred/linebred individuals. Of-course, if you outcross you are hopefully not doubling up on your bitch's weaknesses.

There really is no logical reason for the bigger dogs to have better conformation.

And, yes Dessie, I think the under sized Whippets should be of equal concern as the oversized ones. However, here in OZ they just do not exist. My Bess, 49cm tall ( 19" +smidgen) was called "undersized" by a fellow exhibitor. (w00t)

As long as the judges are aware of what the correct size is I do not mind. However, as somebody else already pointed out, correct size bitch in line up of tall ones will look wrong.

 

[beaker]

there are not many breeds about that have such a difference between largest and smallest, we are not going to all agree, (though i love a good debate)

all i can do is try and breed to my interpretation of the breed standard(height being AS important as to me as every other aspect of the standard )

the colours i go for won't be to everyones taste, my black lad will look small next to some and large next to others,i know mine are not perfect and i will never acheive perfection but will always strive for what I think it is.

and i'll just carry on in the hope that some judges out there will agree with me o

 

[mally]

I think it's a farse, why have a standard if no one is going to adhere to it?

I feel that whippets will go the way of many other show breeds like the border terrier for example far too big for the job it was bred too do and who do we have to thank for that?.

I bred a litter of pups in the summer as you may know. My bitch jess is of sooty sam lines and is a little on the large size (20 1/2"), So i used a racing bred sire (parkstone buttons) to bring the size of the pups down slightly. I've bred solely for working ability and hope the pup i've kept back will be a good working bitch like her mother. However i didn't want a pup that wasn't above the standard size.

Alot of the kc registered breeds have been bred to resemble nothing like the original breed. I only hope the whippet doesn't end up like some of the others.

i know of a few breeders out there who think like me and try to breed for ability and not for show trends.

sorry if i've offended anyone but i have my own opinions and i will share them.

 

[dawn]

Part of he UK breed standard:

Forequarters

Shoulders oblique and muscular, blades carried up to top of spine, where they are clearly defined. Forelegs straight and upright, front not too wide, pasterns strong with slight spring, elbows set well under body.

Hindquarters

Strong, broad across thighs, stifles well bent, hocks well let down, well developed second thighs, dog able to stand over a lot of ground and show great driving power.

Gait/Movement

Free, hindlegs coming well under body for propulsion. Forelegs thrown well forward low over the ground, true coming and going. General movement not to look stilted, high stepping, short or mincing.

Coat

Fine, short, close in texture.

Colour

Any colour or mixture of colours.

Size

Height: dogs: 47-51 cms (181/2-20 ins); bitches: 44-47 cms (171/2-181/2 ins).

Faults

Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog.

 

[Mark Roberts]

At the end of the day whippet where bred to run.

the only true test of a whippet was coursing & now is racing/lure coursing.

walking round a ring and having nice ears does not in anyway show off a whippets ability to fullfill the function it was designed to do.

if you want a big dog! get a greyhound

 

[Vicky]

Going a little bit off topic but it would be quite interesting to see some of the show breds race together and see if the dog that is considered to look the best would actually be the fastest.

 

[Seraphina]

Going a little bit off topic but it would be quite interesting to see some of the show breds race together and see if the dog that is considered to look the best would actually be the fastest.

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My very good friend Marketa who lives in Prague has bred both racing and show whippets for many years une the afix "z Hedvabi". All her dogs run, but the show strain is just not fast enough. Some of her racing champions have also gained the beauty champion title though. Marketa does occasional cross the 2 lines, but she says that the show type dogs with very deep chests just cannot run fast enough.

Marketa does not have a website anymore, but some of her dogs are on this website

http://www.lovelywhippets.com/

 

[Seraphina]

At the end of the day whippet where bred to run.
the only true test of a whippet was coursing & now is racing/lure coursing.

walking round a ring and having nice ears does not in anyway show off a whippets ability to fullfill the function it was designed to do.

if you want a big dog! get a greyhound

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:thumbsup: [SIZE=21pt]ABSOLUTELY! [/SIZE] :thumbsup: