How Can We Help Grover Be Brave?

[Esty]

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I've just been out with Roscoe and Grover and another dog was chasing Grover and really going for him. My two are both really friendly dogs and always want to play but I think since a big black dog went for Gro last year, he gives off wimp vibes whenever he meets those types. It happened two days ago with two female German Shepherds and today was an entire bull lurcher type. Both of my dogs run up to play, but then the dogs seem to pick on and chase Grover in a nasty way - you can tell from the body language (oh, and the snarling) The lurcher was really trying to bite Grover's back end. The owner seemed particularly ineffectual, shouting to her dogs that 'those dogs don't want to play!' - -erm, they did want to play, they just didn't want their back ends having a chunk bitten out. After a few minutes of me thinking, 'Come on, dear, get control of your dogs,' I just stepped in front of the lurcher, shouted 'Leave' in a very gruff voice and it just stopped and went back to its owner. Grover was actually whimpering and weeing with fear as he was running Luckily he kept going in circles rather than running out of the park.

The woman with the two German Shepherds also had me worried because they are bloody big dogs to not have control of. Her two, again, were after Grover mainly, and really trying to bring him down - I have no doubts they would have bitten him if they'd have caught him. She was calling them but they totally ignored her.

The problem is, as it keeps happening, it keeps reinforcing to him that there is something to be scared of. He already barks at black dogs when we meet them on walks and I don't want it developing into anything else. We are working on the walking by using liver cake to get his attention when we pass other dogs and he gets rewarded if he 'walks nicely' without barking. I know these incidents are entirely the fault of people with little control over their dogs, but I still want to help Gro.

 

[k4tie-d]

I've just been out with Roscoe and Grover and another dog was chasing Grover and really going for him. My two are both really friendly dogs and always want to play but I think since a big black dog went for Gro last year, he gives off wimp vibes whenever he meets those types. It happened two days ago with two female German Shepherds and today was an entire bull lurcher type. Both of my dogs run up to play, but then the dogs seem to pick on and chase Grover in a nasty way - you can tell from the body language (oh, and the snarling) The lurcher was really trying to bite Grover's back end. The owner seemed particularly ineffectual, shouting to her dogs that 'those dogs don't want to play!' - -erm, they did want to play, they just didn't want their back ends having a chunk bitten out. After a few minutes of me thinking, 'Come on, dear, get control of your dogs,' I just stepped in front of the lurcher, shouted 'Leave' in a very gruff voice and it just stopped and went back to its owner. Grover was actually whimpering and weeing with fear as he was running Luckily he kept going in circles rather than running out of the park.The woman with the two German Shepherds also had me worried because they are bloody big dogs to not have control of. Her two, again, were after Grover mainly, and really trying to bring him down - I have no doubts they would have bitten him if they'd have caught him. She was calling them but they totally ignored her.

The problem is, as it keeps happening, it keeps reinforcing to him that there is something to be scared of. He already barks at black dogs when we meet them on walks and I don't want it developing into anything else. We are working on the walking by using liver cake to get his attention when we pass other dogs and he gets rewarded if he 'walks nicely' without barking. I know these incidents are entirely the fault of people with little control over their dogs, but I still want to help Gro.

starry is a little like that, not to the extream that grover sounds but she will run up to play with other dogs and the minute the other dog comes to play with her she backs of and runs away (or back to me i should say) and i have noticed that as whippets are so fast ruby/smokey will tease said dog and when it realises it cant catch them it picks on star as shes usually trying to stay out of its way by then by hiding behind me. shes the most sweetest natured dog ever and i do feel really quite sorry for her at times as im pretty sure it is a case of picking on the weekest one.

the only thing that i think helps is when we meet up with ingsay2000 who has 5 very confident whippets who my 3 know well, starry does appear to act braver in that big group when other dogs approch.

not sure how easy it would be for you to test this with grover but maybe if you could meet up with a few other dog owners on a regular basis so grover could meet them and then maybe, like star if he feels he's safe in a pack he may gain a little more confidence. which would hopfully continue to when its just the 3 of you :b

I hope you can get it sorted what a shame for grover to be so scared

 

[Esty]

That's a really good idea, Katie. I do meet up with someone who has one whippet and Grover is very confident around him - he stands his ground and they have a good play. We haven't met other dogs when they are together, though. I'll make a more conscious effort to meet up regularly. :thumbsup:

 

[wild whippies]

It sounds a bit farsical but if you can work on recall and get Grover to come over to you when other boistrous dogs are about, he'll feel safer because your telling him you'll manage the situation. Any dogs that come towards him when he's back on the leash, put yourself between them and Grover. It's also safer for him than having him retaliate (which could result in disastrous consequences). Whippets love running and a lot of other dogs have a hang up about this, unfortunately you can't train everyone else and their dogs out there.

It's also worth knowing that if your dog is on a lead and therefore under control and their dog approaches you and your dog in a manner displaying aggresion, it could be perceived by yourself that the dog is displaying threatening behaviour to yourself. As such any dog is liable of falling under the dangerous dogs act. You'll be impressed by how quickly someone will get their dog on a lead when you tell them this.

A big confidence booster to whippets can be whippet racing instead of his being chased, he'll be doing the chasing and he'll eventually run with other dogs that won't interfere or intimidate him. Running in time handicaps will excel his confidence because he'll be running with dogs of similar ability and will have the chance to win. They tend to be quite good at it too. :thumbsup:

 

[wild whippies]

Agree with Katie as well, the company of other whippets does give them confidence. Ours will go nuts at other dogs that are looking for trouble but they'll go daft with fellow whippets and try to greet each other. It's generally the same with all the other whippets running at our club, they love their fellow whippets but can't abide anything else!

 

[Esty]

To be fair, he was coming back to me when I called him but the dog was so close to him, he wouldn't stop when he got to me :unsure: His recall is pretty good now I use liver cake! He hasn't ever tried to retaliate, bless him.

I like the idea about him being on the lead, though :thumbsup:

I'll think again about racing - I thought about it seriously when they were little but there were a series of racing accidents reported on here at the time and it really put me off.

There's also a nicer park about 25 minutes drive from us that one of my friends goes to with his dog. The people there are lovely and the dogs run in very friendly packs, under control. We go there a lot when the weather is nice, so if I go more regularly Grover might make some friends )

 

[Lisa S]

That's funny as I had this conversation with a fellow whippet owner just yesterday in the park. He was saying that dogs seemed to take a dislike to his dog and he was showing me the scars on the poor little sod to prove it as there were a few! He got him neutered a few months ago to see if it made any difference and says he has had no bother since. I too had the same problem with our boy being attacked on quite a regular basis and we had him neutered and it also made a big difference as I honestly do think it makes them more of a target - i know people will disagree with me but that is my experience.

My boy has been frightened of bigger dogs since he was attacked by one so I have been trying to build his confidence and the other day we met a man with 5 dogs that were so calm and lovely and we walked with them for a while and he loved it and was trying to get them to play but they were on average 15 years old so he did not get any joy :clown: but it was lovely to see that he had the confidence to do it. So I think the suggestion of walking with other nice dogs is really a good one.

Also Esty - keep an eye on him just in case he gets spooked and makes a run for it if you are near to any roads as they just seem to fly blind to get away if they are worried.

Good Luck with him

 

[jinnyfizz]

All sounds like good, solid advice above :thumbsup:

I'm lucky not to have the problem as I don't meet other dogs, but if you do decide to take your boys racing and you're worried about it, you may not have to race them properly You could ask if the club would let you come along for some fun runs after the main racing events - just hand slipping - and then they can run together without the competitive edge of running with other dogs.

That is how mine were introduced to the lure and, although I don't want to race them for the same reasons as yourself, I do take them lure coursing which they just LURVE!!!!! :thumbsup:

 

[bertha]

I don't allow mine to run up to strange dogs, I always put their leads on. Been had by other dogs too many times. If I were you I would stop your dog doing that, one day it may just be the wrong dog to try and play with. I had that when one of mine started running towards a white bully sort of dog. The owner yelled at me not to let my dog go near his as he ran to put it's lead on. He said it would rip my whippet up. Nice!

So, I just don't trust anyone.

 

[TTT]

I don't allow mine to run up to strange dogs, I always put their leads on. Been had by other dogs too many times. If I were you I would stop your dog doing that, one day it may just be the wrong dog to try and play with. I had that when one of mine started running towards a white bully sort of dog. The owner yelled at me not to let my dog go near his as he ran to put it's lead on. He said it would rip my whippet up. Nice!So, I just don't trust anyone.

That sounds like sensible advice. Put a lead on your dog, it imediately gives you so much more control. I think it is safer if strange dogs meet under controlled conditions. Also work on your dpgs obdeience to keep your dogs attention on you as its priority. It is too easy to blame other people.

 

[whippetsrus]

Sorry, but I do not think they should just be allowed to run up to other dogs. If it is dogs they know that is different. However, doing that with dogs they have never met can lead to them being hurt. Not all dogs like being bounded up to.

 

[whippetsrus]

I don't allow mine to run up to strange dogs, I always put their leads on. Been had by other dogs too many times. If I were you I would stop your dog doing that, one day it may just be the wrong dog to try and play with. I had that when one of mine started running towards a white bully sort of dog. The owner yelled at me not to let my dog go near his as he ran to put it's lead on. He said it would rip my whippet up. Nice!So, I just don't trust anyone.

That sounds like sensible advice. Put a lead on your dog, it imediately gives you so much more control. I think it is safer if strange dogs meet under controlled conditions. Also work on your dpgs obdeience to keep your dogs attention on you as its priority. It is too easy to blame other people.

Good advice. Mine are bats about a ball. If that comes out it does not matter how many dogs are about they are completely focused.

 

[eve]

Poor Grover, he has had a time of it.

Has he settled in better at your parents house? I remember that you had some problems.

I agree with the advice given especially by Katie. Whippets do seem to be attracted to their own and are more confident around them. A Lure coursing event may be just the thing. You would not need to course him if you were worrried about injury, but there would be a lot of whippets about and he would have the chance to mingle with a large group of dogs. It is also great fun to watch. My view on lure coursing, is that in all probability less whippets injure themselves that they do would for a daily walk.

Lilly is very nervous and tended to charge at other dogs and have a nip before bolting back to hide behind me.

She has learnt to come for the saftey of the lead instead and wears a muzzle just in case.

Grover is still quite young and as a rescue, it can take a long time for confidence to grow. It takes some of my rescues 18 months to fully become self assured and confident. Toddy is still quite nervous especially with large dogs and I now go out of my way to introduce him to larger dogs that I know who have a calm nature.

Lilly is the exception, I think she has such a nervous disposition because she was bred from a very young bitch and then had puppies very young herself she will never be completely confident and will always be nervous.

 

[Esty]

Grover is my own dog, not my Mum's rescue

He and Roscoe are 18 months old now and after a couple of incidents in dog parks when he was a bit younger, Grover is nervous of some other dogs - always the types that have gone for him in the past. He is brilliant with little dogs, anything up to whippet sized but very funny around GSD and labrador types. With training we have now got him to the point where he can walk past other dogs on the lead without dancing about or barking, but if he is on the lead and a big dog comes up to him he nearly hangs himself frantically trying to pull backwards. Off lead he appears to be friendly with other dogs (he does NOT run right up in their faces, but stops about 20 metres away) but recently he has been chased aggressively as I described in the opening post. Roscoe does exactly the same but other dogs do not go for him. Both of them will run happily with little dogs but it's like Grover wants to run with the big ones but they just pick on him.

We have arranged a meet up with themetalchicken's whippies when I get back from Canada so hopefully that will help. Grover's recall is good, and he did come back to me when he was chased but wouldn't stop because the other dog was too close to him and was genuinely trying to bite him.

I can understand people saying that he shouldn't be off-lead for his own safety but then how will he ever improve? And why should people with nasty dogs get to run theirs off lead and my nice dogs have to stay on? It's like the stupid people are allowed to do what they want and the good people have to cower. It makes me so mad...

The only thing I can think of is to walk him on lead with others who are on the lead so he is doing something to take his mind off the other dogs and he can realise they are not being mean. When we stop for him to meet other dogs face to face, that's when he near kills himself dancing around.

 

[whippetmad]

I have to agree with Berta,when we are out with the dogs,we always put them back on the lead when we see other dogs :thumbsup: You just never know with other dogs and we are not prepared to take any chances,at least you know that your dog is under control also,we also put them back on the lead when we see children(not that i,m saying they are not good with children,they love children)some children are scared of dogs,so its alot better and safer to put them on the lead.

 

[k4tie-d]

I can understand people saying that he shouldn't be off-lead for his own safety but then how will he ever improve? And why should people with nasty dogs get to run theirs off lead and my nice dogs have to stay on? It's like the stupid people are allowed to do what they want and the good people have to cower. It makes me so mad...

i dont think anyone is saying keep him on the lead at all times, its if you see another dog approching then put yours back on the lead untill you have safely assessed this new dog or it is past you,

if the other dog is on a lead, i put mine on, if its not on a lead, i hold their collars untill i can decided what the dog is like or untill its past and then let them go again.

I think it also helps with training as they get used to coming back to you in the middle of your walks to be put on the lead with out them associating the lead with going home so much, if you get what i mean.

p.s wish we lived a bit closer a walk with metalchicken, her boys, you and your boys would be fun

 

[blissed4ever]

Hi what good advice.

I have had dogs that were unsafe around other dogs in the past and always put them on the lead around other dogs and called to other owners to keep their dogs away. But on a number of occassions people have allowed their dogs to barrel in resulting in a near dog fight with me holding my dog on the lead in the middle of it. On one occassion my husband was in a pub with a springer/collie bitch we had who was badly hurt as a pup by a dog running at her and who hated big dogs ever after, a chap was in there with a GSD off lead. Roger asked the chap to keep it away but he ignored him. The GSD came over and our little bitch bit him where it really hurts and the dog took off and wasn't seen for 3 days! :wacko:

I always think its best for dogs to meet first on leads especially if its a strange dog meeting dogs that live in a pack (can be a human & dog pack doesn't have to be lots of dogs) as its natural then for the enforcer of the pack to get rid of the stranger.

My lurcher puppy is well aware of the fact that he's part of a pack and that other dogs don't belong but he's not the pack enforcer so no problems meeting other dogs when he's out and about with me on our own. My old dog (Lab/collie, 11 years old) is now the enforcer and growl/barks at strange dogs/people we don't know to keep them away but doesn't attack anything - he's basically a lovely natured dog who's taken on this role as it fell vacant.

Pack behaviour is fascinating to study and its interesting to see how the dogs and us form a pack and adopt the key roles, alpha male, alpha female, enforcer etc.

Good luck with Grover, try and find some nice whippets to walk him with regularly who will include him in their pack and look out for him - this should give him more confidence. :thumbsup:

 

[Esty]

I know what you mean about when kids are around. Ours love kids but we do put them back on the lead because they want big kisses and could easily knock a kid over! Also, if kids start to run the dogs would think it was just a big game. A couple of weeks ago I was in a dog park with my two and another whippet when a man walked in with two kids (aged about 8 and 4) but no dog. Myself and the other owner shouted to him that the dogs were running and might jump up. He said it was fine and we were about to call our dogs back when the kids just started running through the park squealing. The dogs came back to us but how stupid was this man? It's not like the path leads anywhere else, it's just a path through the dog park but there's another one on the outside that he could have taken. How daft? Our dogs could have been dead vicious for all he knew. I bet their mother would be livid if she knew what he'd done.

I have to agree with Berta,when we are out with the dogs,we always put them back on the lead when we see other dogs :thumbsup: You just never know with other dogs and we are not prepared to take any chances,at least you know that your dog is under control also,we also put them back on the lead when we see children(not that i,m saying they are not good with children,they love children)some children are scared of dogs,so its alot better and safer to put them on the lead.

 

[Esty]

I can understand people saying that he shouldn't be off-lead for his own safety but then how will he ever improve? And why should people with nasty dogs get to run theirs off lead and my nice dogs have to stay on? It's like the stupid people are allowed to do what they want and the good people have to cower. It makes me so mad...

i dont think anyone is saying keep him on the lead at all times, its if you see another dog approching then put yours back on the lead untill you have safely assessed this new dog or it is past you,

if the other dog is on a lead, i put mine on, if its not on a lead, i hold their collars untill i can decided what the dog is like or untill its past and then let them go again.

I think it also helps with training as they get used to coming back to you in the middle of your walks to be put on the lead with out them associating the lead with going home so much, if you get what i mean.

p.s wish we lived a bit closer a walk with metalchicken, her boys, you and your boys would be fun

This was me ranting at society in general rather than the sensible advice I've been given :lol: It's like when you have to take your kids off the swings because there are idiots gooning about in the park. I know it's for their own safety, and of course will do it but it's hard to find areas that are free from other dogs as the weather gets warmer. I'll have to start getting up earlier

 

[eve]

Sorry, I got Grover mixed up with Sidney who I think is your parents dog?.

How is Sidney doing?