How do I get my dog to Drop the ball please!

[JenC]

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hello - newbie here looking for advice on getting my 1yr ball obsessed border collie to drop a ball when she brings it back instead of 'dancing' and rounding us. Cassie is very ball focussed but she has a little routine when we are ball-playing.....when we first arrive at park and she is let off leash, she runs about 50m away and lies down/hides behind bush/hill/tree etc waiting for ball throw then she darts out grabs it and runs back to us, runs round us, dances a bit (to see if we engage in chase?), drops it but wont leave it so she snatches it back if we try to pick it up. Eventually, on her terms, she will drop it and stalk off again to take up her hiding position to wait for next throw. Occasionlly, she'll stalk off again with it still in her mouth and drop it on her run out. Shes not fussy where she drops it and this often means that other dogs nick her ball.

I'd love to get her to drop it at my feet. We do training in house and she will place the ball in my hand for a treat but outdoors she refuses any treats (turns her head away) as the ball is the only thing she is interested in. I want to crack this as we are now doing flyball and after the flyball run she does the same dancing around and wont come close enough for me to get her and sometimes darts off back down the flyball run. anyway....sorry for long post! Look forward to hearing your replies.

 

[eingana]

Ooooh- interesting BC behaviour there!

Welcome to DogForum BTW

I would assume from your comments that balls outrank treats? If you could find a treat that outranked balls then that would be a really good thing to use for training her into a new routine of how to return the ball to you.

Have you tried taking more than one ball on walks? What happens if you offer her one ball whilst she's still holding another? Could you call her to you to throw one ball to make her drop the first ball in front of you?

On a completely separate training point, what commands have you taught her? Does she know 'trade'? That's very useful in situations like this.

 

[JenC]

Lol I know....and, forgetting the frustrations of me being the 'retriever' in th relationship, its actually quite funny!

Yep ball trumps everything. Ive tried to get her really into tug games as a trade (and so we can play closer together) and thats fine as long as there is no ball in sight, but if she knows there is a ball around then she gets into ball stalking mode and the tug becomes invisible.

Have tried second ball and but she wont drop one in mouth, and either just stands there waiting for second throw or stalks off to wait with first ball firmly in mouth. Have tried making second ball so much more exciting by playing, bouncing and talking like its the best thing I have ever seen (!!!) without joy.

Pretty good with commands, I use drop and leave it with much sucess indoors but again outdoors she is immediately switched on to wanting ball games so becomes completely blinkered. tell me about 'trade'...?

 

[hanneroon]

this sounds fun! Have you tried upping the treat value, i use dried chicken, or dried venison heart. The only time i use it is for swapping, but i'm working on a spanielx terrier, so i've got it easy! I also do the opposite of chasing and wander off/and or sit down and act bored or secretive, she can't resist coming over to find out what i'm doing. Guess what? I'm pretending to eat dried venison heart.... ball (or whatever it is, dead thing, my tools) drops immediatley. Yours sounds like she loves the mind games more than purely chase me, chase me though, might not fall for that trick! I used to housesit a collie who was ball obsessed. Don't think i ever saw him with either his eyes shut, or without a ball near him, if you caught his eye, he would roll the ball at you. Good luck!

 

[hanneroon]

i also walk over and nonchalantly stand on the ball as if i haven't seen it, rather than try and pick it up, this is from playing with a little jrt who i'm sure would have had my fingers off playing that game, she is looking to see me reach for it, knowing i'll whip my hand back, a foot is a bit more definite.

 

[eingana]

Trade is a command used with dogs that are too engaged in the thing that they have to give it back without being offered something of equal or greater value. You can start learning the command with all balls hidden so you're just working on food treats, for her to learn the word and concept.

Get a load of little plastic discs or the tops off disposable coffee cups or the lids off Philadelphia cheese or similar to act as plates and a pot of something sticky and appealing that she likes, and smear a few of the 'plates' with some of the lovely goo (pate works, so does cheese spread, peanut butter and yoghurt, depending on your dog's tastes).

Put one down and tell her that she can have it. Of course, she has to stand and lick it because she can't just pick up the treat and walk away with it. Half way through her enjoying it, say the word 'trade' and take away the first plate, replacing it with another which may have something different on it. Repeat as many times as you can without the dog getting sick from how much she's licked or losing focus, and as you go, watch her and hopefully she will start to take her nose away from the plate that you remove when you say the word 'trade' because she's getting used to the idea that it's OK for you to take things away from her, even though she hasn't finished with it, because you're going to give her something as good back again.

Repeat daily and refine how long and how far she has to back away from the plate when you say trade. You can then use the word 'trade' with anything that she has that you want- you 'buy' it back from her with something just as good.

Couple that with some 'give' training and some 'in my hand' training. Again, don't start with balls, start with something she's not so interested in or she's not likely to give it you back initially, and you want her to get the message from this that you will reward her and/or replace it with something good when she puts the toy she has back in your hand.

From there you can move onto giving her a ball that's not her favourite and buying that off her with a better ball.

Like hanneroon, I'd be going the opposite direction rather than joining in the chasing game. Teach her that 'bye bye' means you're walking away and she will soon learn that it's good to follow you rather than get left behind by her human.

I used to walk a BC bitch that was an ex flyball champion, and it was reading around her needs that I found the phrase that boy borders want to be your mate and girls want to be your mum. They're too clever, too able to train you to do what they want you to do unless you know what you're doing and unfortunately that often leads to them ending up in rescue.

If your girl is half as smart as most BCs you'll be training her and inventing new games to challenge her for the next decade or so, after which time she'll start to be a bit more predictable

 

[JenC]

Brilliant! will def try the 'trade' tip and report back in a few days!!