Hunting

[samanthaatmaltby]

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I’ve been reading threads on coursing as after getting a whippet I have become fascinated by the subject, like most people I have been brought up in a town, surrounded by people who don’t approve of hunting, completely ignorant of the ways of the country side, (watching wildlife sos on animal planet!) so it hardly surprising that I was completely against hunting, I haven’t had a complete u turn of opinions, but I have had a slight attack of conscience reading the threads, Im not vegetarian and I wear leather shoes, yet I bury my head when it comes to thinking about how the meat got on my plate, its like I want it killing but I want to tut at the people who killed it!! After talking to people out with there dogs on the fields, I am starting to understand that a dog catching a rabbit is a natural thing for it to do, and if it were perfectly legal and I were capable of training my dog to do so, I think I would actually be quite proud if my whippet brought me a rabbit! (Can’t believe I just said that!! :- " ) But there is so much I still can’t get my head round, like foxes why would a person want to kill them? You don’t eat them; do they cause a lot of trouble? Is the countryside overrun with them? (genuine questions, I would like to understand) and when some of my pigeons got shot, I saw a man near my house with a gun so I stopped my car he was a big bloke in camouflage and a big red beard but he was way more scared of me (w00t) !! He said he only shoots wood pigeons for the farmer, what is that all about? Does the farmer pay him? Or does he do it because he feels the need to help the farmer out? Or is it because shooting a pigeon is not easy and he can do it? or does he just like killing? (Again im not being argumentative for the sake of it, is there an answer? why would a person want to shoot pigeons?)

sorry for the rambling post, but its a complicated subject, thanks for any replies Samantha

 

[~elizabeth~]

like foxes why would a person want to kill them? You don’t eat them; do they cause a lot of trouble? Is the countryside overrun with them?

:lol: :lol: :lol: (sorry, nearest I can get to emoticon for sound of hollow laughter). Ask my friend who just had his life's work of champion poultry breeding wiped out, 40 birds gone in a single night.

 

[beaker]

good for you for asking questions :thumbsup:

so many people have uninformed veiws and refuse to look at the bigger picture and no matter what facts are presented to them will only take on board the details that add weight to their own beliefs , what ever they may be.

BTW it is still legal to hunt rabbits, but it is best to ensure you have landowners permision :thumbsup:

the farmer may have requested the gun to come in to control wood pigeon numbers for several reasons, possibly to protect his crops while they are at a vulnerable stage, or maybe they are destined for table, several butchers local to me sell a wide variety of game from venison and hare to wild duck and wood pigeon.

hope this helps

 

[OEH]

Foxes cause an enormous amount of damage because they seem to kill for the fun of it as well as to eat. It is not uncommon to go in to a field of young lambs and find 5 or 6 killed but uneaten, and the same goes for poultry.

Pigeons are a pest as they eat crops, the reason the man you met does it is because they are harder to kill (unlike pheasants on a driven shoot) and so it is more interesting sport, my husband (who shoots on driven shoots all winter) is always much more pleased with shooting one pigeon than any number of pheasants.

Hope this helps.

 

[05whippet]

This is a very emotive topic. The following is my opinion, foxes do as mentioned an awful lot of damage to both young lambs & poultry,they DO contrary to popular belief just kill for the sake of it (we have friends just up the road from us who have been wiped out five times this year alone (chickens) by the same fox) we think that because they don't believe in killing small furry things the fox just keeps coming back as they keep replenishing the food larder for her!! We ourselves keep around 25/30 hens and 15 ducks,luckily we have only had a foxy visit once and this I could'nt actually believe,it was at around 1pm on a lovely sunny day and I suddenly heard all this squawking I looked out the kitchen window and lo & behold there in the paddock about 10ft from the window was a young fox he had the hold of one of my hens by the back.I ran straight out taking the dogs with me but the damn fox was'nt that worried by me shouting at him at all (the dogs were going nuts) so I just lifted one of the dogs over the fence & let him go,the fox took one look at him and fled up the paddock with Moss hot on his tail.Moss caught him just as he was fleeing thru the hedge,the fox let out an almighty yell but did get away.Needless to say we have never had any more trouble with foxes,but the neighbours are still suffering!

I believe that if they had even let their dog see the fox off the first time they would'nt be plagued the way they are now.their dog is chained up beside their back door and the hens are away at the top of the garden????????

I can honestly say that hand on heart if Moss (Whippet) had got hold of that fox properly I would've just left him to it,it made me so mad to see it there with one of my girls & it obviously was'nt scared of ME!! My poor girl had to go the vets as she had a huge big bite out of her back!

So No I'm not a huge fan of MR fOX!!!!!!!!!!

 

[~elizabeth~]

I believe that if they had even let their dog see the fox off the first time they would'nt be plagued the way they are now.their dog is chained up beside their back door and the hens are away at the top of the garden????????

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We used to play this game regularly every night at one point, letting the dog out to have a good run at the bushy tailed ones, sometimes even catching one; made not the slightest difference, so don't feel your birds are completely secure with a dog around. If something has driven a fox to the edge of desperation (freezing weather, broken legs, cubs to feed) they will take ENORMOUS risks, even hurting themselves chewing through wire (and yes they can get through chicken wire as if they had pliers for teeth) or tearing their paws to shreds digging.

Our dog actually managed to save a hen once, fox was making off with her and dropped her when the dog caught up (slight miracle he didn't then grab the hen for himself). Fortunately the dog was loose in the garden, but it didn't deter the fox from attacking, bold as brass, at 11 am on a sunny, summer's day.

That said, the biggest wipeouts we've had around here recently have been from mink (which can get in through rat holes), I've personally only lost a handful of birds to foxes, I'm a lot more worried about mink.

 

[05whippet]

Totally agree with you Moriarte,we've just been VERY lucky that's all,but it does seem ludicrus to me to have a dog chained as far away as possible from the fowl.

As I said these people don't believe in killing "innocent" animals,but then on the other hand seem quite content to have a McDonalds for foxes!!

I'm not too sure how the poor hens that incidently they rescue????? from battery farms feel about being sitting ducks...........sorry about that awful pun (w00t)

 

[babe]

I kind of understand, I have had no contact with foxes the replies have been helpful to me too.

 

[samanthaatmaltby]

thank you for your replies, It has helped and I can live with the fact that foxes are a pest to so many people,

I hope I didnt offend moriarte, but If i dont ask I will never know, and it makes sence to ask the people who know the most about it.

thank you again

 

[Scott Frodsham]

Sensible questions, sensible answers!

If only more people thought about it and asked questions rather than regurgitating the filth rammed down their throats by the LACS, maybe the ban would not be in place.

We have urban foxes around here and not only are they a pest to hens/geese,etc I was reading the other day that they are major carriers of worms that affect dogs and potentially humans.

Remember as a lad growing up in North Yorkshire (I don't tell many people that) going shooting and fishing. You can't beat a fresh rainbow trout or wood pigeon pie! :thumbsup:

 

[beaker]

Sensible questions, sensible answers!  If only more people thought about it and asked questions rather than regurgitating the filth rammed down their throats by the LACS, maybe the ban would not be in place.

We have urban foxes around here and not only are they a pest to hens/geese,etc I was reading the other day that they are major carriers of worms that affect dogs and potentially humans.

Remember as a lad growing up in North Yorkshire (I don't tell many people that) going shooting and fishing. You can't beat a fresh rainbow trout or wood pigeon pie!  :thumbsup:

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foxes don't just carry worms but mange as well, :x

they are nothing like the cute, fluffy cartoon image that some people try to portray, urban foxes can cause just as many problems as their country cousins it's just not as well reported. these daft old biddies that put out bowls of cat food for cute "mr fox" are just making them more bold around humans :rant: then they wonder where their cat 'Tiddles' has disapeared to :- " you won't find the RSPCA willing to accept that urban foxes pick off unguarded cats and occasionally small dogs when the opportunity arises, they just keep picking up the sick and injured, patching them up and returning them back to the bins they found them scavenging in :angry:

my aunt had her little dog attacked on several occasions, as was her cat until one day when she heard a commotion in her back garden and went outside she saw her cats body being dragged off by the fox, several neighbours cats have also met the same fate but when she told the RSPCA about it they refused point blank to beleive her, saying the cat must have been dead already and the fox was just scavenging and even if it had killed the cat it was probably because the fox was a rogue who was just sick and desperate :angry: would they do anything about it. . . . nope :angry: so a freindly gamekeeper brought some cage traps around and the fox was, ahem, 'relocated' , funny thing was no one lost any more pets after that, must have been coincidence :- "

 

[~elizabeth~]

they refused point blank to beleive her, saying the cat must have been dead already and the fox was just scavenging and even if it had killed the cat it was probably because the fox was a rogue who was just sick and desperate  :angry: would they do anything about it.

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Don't worry I'm not offended, I'm just a bit fed up with having to rebuild my runs all the time to keep them out.

I think the key to whether they become a nuisance or not is how desperate they are. There's a big earth about 100 yards away, for over 5 years we had no problems. Then we had persistant problems with one chewing through the wire, grabbing birds in broad daylight. When I got a good look at it, it was obvious it had a broken leg.

Similar problems with a persistant one this year - I think it was a youngster camped out in someone's garden, again equally desperate. There was a lot of foxy noise over a couple of nights, then a neighbour found it dead just behind our house. I think it was killed by the other foxes, trying to drive it off their territory.

It's difficult, as many people don't have a problem for years, probably aren't as careful about their fencing/shutting in as a result, then get a sudden wipeout. I can't say anyone has lost any cats around here - I know if they are around as our cat does her bottle brush impression immediately. A normal fox with a good feeding territory probably wouldn't risk getting an injury from a cat, but one at death's door from starvation will probably take huge risks to keep alive. And there never seems to be any shortage of desperate foxes, it's not just rare, one-off 'rogues'.

 

[BeeJay]

Have you had any problems with Badgers predating your fowl Moriarte? I've been told that they can be worse than foxes in winter.

My last hen was nabbed by a fox just outside my kitchen window with the deerhound (was a puppy then) in the garden with them. Fox could get through the fencing which the dog couldn't. -by the time he'd thought about giving chase. :b

Because I don't keep fowl anymore I can relax about foxes. Now all I have to worry about is squirrel and deer damage to my trees and other plants.

 

[beaker]

they refused point blank to beleive her, saying the cat must have been dead already and the fox was just scavenging and even if it had killed the cat it was probably because the fox was a rogue who was just sick and desperate  :angry: would they do anything about it.

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Don't worry I'm not offended, I'm just a bit fed up with having to rebuild my runs all the time to keep them out.

I think the key to whether they become a nuisance or not is how desperate they are. There's a big earth about 100 yards away, for over 5 years we had no problems. Then we had persistant problems with one chewing through the wire, grabbing birds in broad daylight. When I got a good look at it, it was obvious it had a broken leg.

Similar problems with a persistant one this year - I think it was a youngster camped out in someone's garden, again equally desperate. There was a lot of foxy noise over a couple of nights, then a neighbour found it dead just behind our house. I think it was killed by the other foxes, trying to drive it off their territory.

It's difficult, as many people don't have a problem for years, probably aren't as careful about their fencing/shutting in as a result, then get a sudden wipeout. I can't say anyone has lost any cats around here - I know if they are around as our cat does her bottle brush impression immediately. A normal fox with a good feeding territory probably wouldn't risk getting an injury from a cat, but one at death's door from starvation will probably take huge risks to keep alive. And there never seems to be any shortage of desperate foxes, it's not just rare, one-off 'rogues'.

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the one that was munching on the local cats had been doing so for nearly two years and when it was removed was in pretty good nick for a fox, so i don't think it was just desperation, my aunts cat had been attacked a couple of times before and when he had his last skirmish was missing an ear and an eye from a previous incident, he had only been saved on that occasion by my aunt wielding a big walking stick (which though she is only 5 ft nothing is a scary sight )

this fox had probably been encouraged to the area by easy pickings, why chase rabbits when you can clear out chicken coups and bins.

hunting with dogs has now been banned and there is a deffinate drive to stop shooting as well which is just going to lead to even more lame and starving foxes having to go to desperate lengths, it amazes me that this ban has been brought in in the name of animal welfare :blink:

I spent a lot of my childhood on farms and in the country, my grandparents were farmers and i've seen the affects of a fox killing spree on the newbie lambs so i can understand i little the feelings you have when you've had a raid

sorry if i've waffled on again :b

p.s don't get me started on the idiots who release mink

 

[05whippet]

Funny you should mention Badgers,we have people that we know,I shant say friends as they're not.But anyway their son is very into showing poultry and last year came out to us to buy some young Dutch Bantams,they actually live CLOSER to town than we do (we're in the middle of no-where) and they asked us did we see many foxes out here?We told them the previous story and then asked them the same,to which they replied no,but were absoloutely plagued with Badgers,apparently they come in after the eggs and cause absoloute havoc,they have all their poultry in wee indivual breeding runs and the badgers being much stronger than foxes just upend them andof course the birds are out and then mixed up with the other breeding pairs,so a bit of a nightmare really all round!!!!!

Our hens are all free range and all go into the one large hen house.We don't have the Banties anymore, as I could'nt be bothered with all the separate pens.

 

[Janimal]

I work on a farm and our lambs are sometimes attacked by badgers and foxes alike, and weve had peacocks and poultry also taken in the winter months - but not eaten just slaughtered and scattered around.

The foxes and badgers do a lot of damage and their numbers should be controlled to reduce this.

I am also a huge fan of wildlife and love nothing more to be in the countrside surrounded by nature, but I beleive in control too otherwise we wouldnt have such a beautiful countryside to enjoy.

 

[05whippet]

Just out of curiosity,does anyone know if foxes have a natural predator???I have been racking my brains trying to think!Come to think of it do Badgers?????

 

[littleminx]

No the fox has no natrual predater, anti's will argue that nor has the lion who needs protection not man hunting it, i do not think badgers do ethier.

Anti's who finally admit the fox needs controlling can never answer to me a better method, my old gsd caught her first and last hare purly because it had been shot in the leg, this poor creature would have died slowly if she hadn't caught it, i am not anti shooting BTW but when it comes to fox conrol it can be slow and painful if not done well, i also feel shooting can wipe out any fox wheras hunting tends to catch the old or sick therfore insuring the fox is not wiped completly out.

As for the chase when i have been it is never longer than 5/10 minutes, no more stressful then natrual wild hunting is for the prey, people have a problem because man on horses is involved.

Poisening and trapping is completly creul and also will effect all wildlife. Yes the pic's of the fox being torn apart are disturbing but ion my opinion so is the scene i found last week all around my horse menage when a fox killed all 20 of my neighbours chickens and spread bits of them around for a bit of fun, now he wasnt just killing what he needed to eat was he

 

[tlewis]

Lots of natural predators on fox over here (USA).

Coyotes being the main one. In spite of the predators they do well on the whole.

Now badgers have very few predators, but in the States they are solitary animals.

Although smaller than the European badger IMO they are far more bad tempered and will actuall attack dogs above ground.

Just out of curiosity,does anyone know if foxes have a natural predator???I have been racking my brains trying to think!Come to think of it do Badgers?????

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[wild whippies]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever heard of Distemper affecting fox populations? A friend of mine mentioned there was an outbreak of it last year but when I've looked on the net, Defra say there's never been a recorded case of a fox suffering with Distemper in the UK. Does this mean they are immune or is it due to their lifestyle and environment?

Don't get me wrong I certainly feel it's an inhumane way to go, I'm just curious as to why it doesn't happen?