Iggy For Sale

[Jan Doherty]

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The trouble with this breed is because people who care about the breed are so careful how many litters they breed and therefore there is a shortage of puppies so the unscrupulus trade in on that.

One of the backyard breeders was selling Blue Iggies for an inflated £750 because Blues are rare which of course they arent.

Unfortunatley the amount of backyard breeders is also increasing at an alarming rate. However to breed from a bitch you need to have a stud dog so its about time some of the Stud owners were called to account. Of course some of the more determined back streeters buy dogs in from whereever they can get them.

This is not an easy breed and certainly not a commercial breed as on the whole they have small litters but if a bitch can be bred from every 6 months in makes for a fair bit of pin money with very little outlay as the pups are in most cases badly reared.

For anyone who owns Iggies you despair for the ones who are not in loving homes.

Thinking of you all tonight

 

[kris]

i agree with you about stud dog owners.some of them see no further than their next stud fee. :rant:

whenever there is a gap in the market theres always an unscrupulous breeder ready to jump on the bandwagon.

i dont own an iggy but i love coming here and reading of their adventures and seeing all the beautiful pictures of them.i think all the people on here obviously worship and adore their iggies,its such a shame that not all owners/breeders do so.

 

[nina]

The trouble with this breed is because people who care about the breed are so careful how many litters they breed and therefore there is a shortage of puppies so the unscrupulus trade in on that.

One of the backyard breeders was selling Blue Iggies for an inflated £750 because Blues are rare which of course they arent.

Unfortunatley the amount of backyard breeders is also increasing at an alarming rate. However to breed from a bitch you need to have a stud dog so its about time some of the Stud owners were called to account. Of course some of the more determined back streeters buy dogs in from whereever they can get them.

This is not an easy breed and certainly not a commercial breed as on the whole they have small litters but if a bitch can be bred from every 6 months in makes for a fair bit of pin money with very little outlay as the pups are in most cases badly reared.

For anyone who owns Iggies you despair for the ones who are not in loving homes.

Thinking of you all tonight

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:thumbsup: Couldn't of said it better Jan.

 

[urchin]

I'd be interested to hear about the breeding of dogs act Kris - i didn't even know there was one.

It's awful to think of a breed like iggies going to home without any information. Most people i know would not be able to cope with the little accidents round the house which seem to be something that iggy people learn to find a way of dealing with!....and even our vet said not to have one without insurance because of the expense of broken limbs.

We nearly took on a little blue boy recently, but the man who had inherited him changed his mind and got rid of his own old dog instead (w00t) We knew about this little boy's circumstances especially his house training - i know if he had been an indoor wee-er we would not have been able to offer him a home.

Harsh i know, but i think it's best to be honest about what you can and can't deal with.

I despair of people not doing research into breeds before choosing a dog - but if the breeders' have no information to give out it just compounds the problem.

Thank f*** for the breed rescue societies.

 

[nina]

It's awful to think of a breed like iggies going to home without any information. Most people i know would not be able to cope with the little accidents round the house which seem to be something that iggy people learn to find a way of dealing with!....and even our vet said not to have one without insurance because of the expense of broken limbs.
We nearly took on a little blue boy recently, but the man who had inherited him changed his mind and got rid of his own old dog instead  (w00t) We knew about this little boy's circumstances especially his house training - i know if he had been an indoor wee-er we would not have been able to offer him a home.

Harsh i know, but i think it's best to be honest about what you can and can't deal with.

I despair of people not doing research into breeds before choosing a dog - but if the breeders' have no information to give out it just compounds the problem.

Thank f*** for the breed rescue societies.

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Good on you Urchin for making an honest decision & finding out your facts first, i only wish all potential owners were as sensible :thumbsup:

I have only ever parted with a 6 pups in 16 years (3 going to the same couple over a period of years) 2 went to seperate close friends & the other 1 a lovely couple who already had a little rescue IG chap. Even so, i told them all the bad things first, how they were NOT the cleanest of breeds & could be a nightmare to housetrain, yes they can break their legs, with their exhuberant personalities there is very high chance of it no matter how careful you are & you have to have them insured as a broken leg can easily be in excess of £2000 with surgery etc.

Most reputable breeders who care about their pups & want to ensure they are going to a loving home for life WILL be honest with people, as you know if after telling them all the pitfalls they are still interested then they must be pretty serious.

Unfortunately the "backyard" breeders have no advice or information to offer so people buy the cutesy looking puppy unaware of any problems, then a few months down the line when they are sick of them messing in the house or they have suffered a broken leg which they can not afford to have treated, the poor dog is simply re-advertised to try & redeem some of their money back.

Sometimes we are lucky & if they are genuine people they will contact rescue but more often than not they dont.

 

[kris]

urchin the breeding of dogs act states any premises where 2 or more bitches are kept that are cabable of being bred from and they must be licensed by the local authority.

 

[nina]

urchin the breeding of dogs act states any premises where 2 or more bitches are kept that are cabable of being bred from and they must be licensed by the local authority.

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:thumbsup: spot on Kris. The only problem with is that if you finally get a "local authority" to make a visit & the owner refuses access saying its his/hers own property & they are not coming in to inspect without a warrant or police escort, the local authority then has to go away as they cant force entry & by the time they return with the necessary ALL dogs but one have "disappeared"

They are then passed as totally satisfactory & any further calls to them are greeted with "Please dont waste OUR time & YOURS!

 

[BeeJay]

Hmm that Yorkie breeder was a licensed breeder and she simply told the authorities that she'd given up breeding so they stopped checking. She obviously hadn't. She had 204 of them some of which were pups.

 

[kris]

tell the council if they dont get a warrant and police escort you will report them to the ombudsman for maladministration.they have to investigate your complaints

 

[nina]

Hmm that Yorkie breeder was a licensed breeder and she simply told the authorities that she'd given up breeding so they stopped checking. She obviously hadn't. She had 204 of them some of which were pups.

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I know Beejay & i also know of a big scale breeder that used to live not too far from me.

Now i know someone who worked there as a kennel hand & lasted just 2 weeks as they were appalled at the conditions.

There were cages upon cages stacked 5 & 6 high, no bedding containing bitches & their pups. One bitch had actually got her leg trapped through the bars of the cage & the bitch below had eaten it away.

The sights seen there were horrific, one poor bitch shut in a cage had no face where the fur was so overgrown & matted you could no longer tell what breed it was YET this was a licensed breeder & had their license renewed on a regular basis :wacko:

They were also reported to the RSPCA more times than i can remember but other than a couple of warnings nothing ever came of it.

 

[nina]

tell the council if they dont get a warrant and police escort you will report them to the ombudsman for maladministration.they have to investigate your complaints

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But by that time the person has shifted the dogs so when they inspect all appears fine.

With this particular back yard breeder to shift 2 or 3 bitches a few yards along to a pal isn't a problem we have even known whilst someone is banging on the front door his wife to disappear out back along with a couple of the dogs

Unfortunately they aren't stupid & know exactly what they can get away with

 

[kris]

the council have a responsibility to enforce the local laws concerning breeding premises.if they fail in that duty of care they can be reprimanded by the ombudsman.the ombudsmans report is usually printed in all the local papers to as it is considered a severe reprimand.a breeding establishment has to meet certain criteria.the council will usually inspect the premises with a vet surgeon in attendance and/or a dog warden.the criteria are quite strict too so theres no excuse for dirty premises.the council can withhold licence grant and close the premises down

the council can go to a magistrate for a warrant on the grounds you have quoted above,that the person if forewarned will remove dogs from the premises.so they can get a warrant to go in totally unexpectedly and inspect.the warrant will be granted on those grounds :thumbsup:

 

[*Lesley*]

Hmm that Yorkie breeder was a licensed breeder and she simply told the authorities that she'd given up breeding so they stopped checking. She obviously hadn't. She had 204 of them some of which were pups.

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I know Beejay & i also know of a big scale breeder that used to live not too far from me.

Now i know someone who worked there as a kennel hand & lasted just 2 weeks as they were appalled at the conditions.

There were cages upon cages stacked 5 & 6 high, no bedding containing bitches & their pups. One bitch had actually got her leg trapped through the bars of the cage & the bitch below had eaten it away.

The sights seen there were horrific, one poor bitch shut in a cage had no face where the fur was so overgrown & matted you could no longer tell what breed it was YET this was a licensed breeder & had their license renewed on a regular basis :wacko:

They were also reported to the RSPCA more times than i can remember but other than a couple of warnings nothing ever came of it.

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OMG thats heartbreaking

Just a query are you supposed to have a lisence even if you have no intention of breeding from them I didn't know about this :unsure:

 

[nina]

the council have a responsibility to enforce the local laws concerning breeding premises.if they fail in that duty of care they can be reprimanded by the ombudsman.the ombudsmans report is usually printed in all the local papers to as it is considered a severe reprimand.a breeding establishment has to meet certain criteria.the council will usually inspect the premises with a vet surgeon in attendance and/or a dog warden.the criteria are quite strict too so theres no excuse for dirty premises.the council can withhold licence grant and close the premises down

the council can go to a magistrate for a warrant on the grounds you have quoted above,that the person if forewarned will remove dogs from the premises.so they can get a warrant to go in totally unexpectedly and inspect.the warrant will be granted on those grounds :thumbsup:

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I think the difficulty is like with this particular situation, the dogs in question are NOT kept in filth, i would call the conditions "poor" especially for an IG to live in with no real comfort BUT they have food, water, shelter the bare minimum so has been found satisfactory in the fact he provides what is asked for.

The fact he may breed from the bitches EVERY 6 months no one can do anything about as a lot of the litters aren't registered. As there are no receipts that pass hands, cash is paid & these pups are sold on to equally dubious characters , to prove this is near on impossible.

He may register 4 litters from a bitch over a period of time BUT in fact she could have actually had double that or more just unregistered. Also when he breeds on from one of the unregisterd bitch puppies time after time there is no proof as the bitch does not exist as far as they K.C or anyone is concerned & there is never any record of her or any subsequent pups.

There are so many loop holes that he can use & to be honest once a premises has been inspected & passed as adequate it is soooo hard to try & then it get turned around especially without any real proof.

A friend of mine in another breed went to a big licensed kennel to buy a pup & found the conditions horrendous, 4 week old pups on bare concrete, no bedding just an old tin bed, their coats were matted with faeces, they looked unwell. She reported this guy & he got a warning & was told to clean up his act. 2 weeks later they went back said he had done what was asked & everything was hunky dory.

All he had actually done by this time was sold the pups, thrown a blanket in the tin bed for the bitch to lie on & that was it.

Whilst we do not agree with the conditions they are kept in

 

[kim & Tilly]

Hmm that Yorkie breeder was a licensed breeder and she simply told the authorities that she'd given up breeding so they stopped checking. She obviously hadn't. She had 204 of them some of which were pups.

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I know Beejay & i also know of a big scale breeder that used to live not too far from me.

Now i know someone who worked there as a kennel hand & lasted just 2 weeks as they were appalled at the conditions.

There were cages upon cages stacked 5 & 6 high, no bedding containing bitches & their pups. One bitch had actually got her leg trapped through the bars of the cage & the bitch below had eaten it away.

The sights seen there were horrific, one poor bitch shut in a cage had no face where the fur was so overgrown & matted you could no longer tell what breed it was YET this was a licensed breeder & had their license renewed on a regular basis :wacko:

They were also reported to the RSPCA more times than i can remember but other than a couple of warnings nothing ever came of it.

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OMG thats heartbreaking

Just a query are you supposed to have a lisence even if you have no intention of breeding from them I didn't know about this :unsure:

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I was wondering that as i have to bitches which i could breed from :blink:

 

[kris]

well i had a court case about this specific law so im pretty clued up on it but i know that local authorities have been given guidelines now so that they dont prosecute every tom dick and harry who have a couple of bitches. :thumbsup: these guidelines werent in place when i had my court case.the law states any premises where 2 or more bitches are kept that are capable of being bred from.so in other words they werent spayed.but when we first bought our house which we bought with the full intention of building kennels and breeding and showing dogs the council wouldnt give me a breeders licence as after asking me a few questions they told me i wasnt a commercial breeder (ie breeding purely to sell) so they couldnt issue me with a licence.they said as i bred only to keep a pup for showing or to continue my bloodline and sold the surplus pups that i wasnt a commercial breeder so they wouldnt give me one.(10 years down the line they took me to court as they said i was NOW a dog breeder although not a commercial one and now i needed one!) (w00t) anyway i had a good brief and luckily for us we won the case but it cost the local council over 30,000 pounds which if we had lost then we would have had to foot the bill! :angry: as a taxpayer in this borough i resent the fact that our local council wasted so much taxpayers money on what was a set up job instigated by a jealous rival in the dog game.however im all for the law being enforced when it concerns puppy farmers and commercial breeders as without this law then chaos would reign and it does allow for veterinary inspection and spot checks by the enviromental health.i wouldnt worry lesley,i dont think they would dream of bringing a prosecution now as guidelines are in place to make sure this doesnt occur

 

[nina]

well i had a court case about this specific law so im pretty clued up on it but i know that local authorities have been given guidelines now so that they dont prosecute every tom dick and harry who have a couple of bitches. :thumbsup: these guidelines werent in place when i had my court case.the law states any premises where 2 or more bitches are kept that are capable of being bred from.so in other words they werent spayed.but when we first bought our house which we bought with the full intention of building kennels and breeding and showing dogs the council wouldnt give me a breeders licence as after asking me a few questions they told me i wasnt a commercial breeder (ie breeding purely to sell) so they couldnt issue me with a licence.they said as i bred only to keep a pup for showing or to continue my bloodline and sold the surplus pups that i wasnt a commercial breeder so they wouldnt give me one.(10 years down the line they took me to court as they said i was NOW a dog breeder although not a commercial one and now i needed one!) (w00t) anyway i had a good brief and luckily for us we won the case but it cost the local council over 30,000 pounds which if we had lost then we would have had to foot the bill! :angry: as a taxpayer in this borough i resent the fact that our local council wasted so much taxpayers money on what was a set up job instigated by a jealous rival in the dog game.however im all for the law being enforced when it concerns puppy farmers and commercial breeders as without this law then chaos would reign and it does allow for veterinary inspection and spot checks by the enviromental health.i wouldnt worry lesley,i dont think they would dream of bringing a prosecution now as guidelines are in place to make sure this doesnt occur

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Damn good on you for winning Kris :thumbsup: Must have been horrendous for you. Way to go

Unfortunately you know these "people" that "inspect" aren't always the most honest :- "

 

[kris]

honest!ha! (w00t) these guys in my case lied on oath in court and the councils chief executive received a letter from the rspca threatening them with legal action for telling lies on oath about the rspca!they received a reply back apologising profusely and saying their enviromental health inspectors 'were mistaken'.also when we got our local councillor to write to the ombudsman and complain about council officers behaviour etc on our behalf they said that although they could see that lies had been told on oath,and rules had been bent and we had been put through a horrific ordeal that because there was no maladministration there was nothing they could do.(the local government ombudsman is only concerned with maladministration,nothing else unfortunately,and the lady ombudsman sent me her sincere good wishes after all wed been through) however it did give me an insight into how the law works and what buttons to press if you want to get action. :thumbsup: i agree with you though nina if the dogs have food,water and shelter theres not a lot can be done even if the poor bitches are being used like breeding machines

 

[nina]

honest!ha! (w00t) these guys in my case lied on oath in court and the councils chief executive received a letter from the rspca threatening them with legal action for telling lies on oath about the rspca!they received a reply back apologising profusely and saying their enviromental health inspectors 'were mistaken'.also when we got our local councillor to write to the ombudsman and complain about council officers behaviour etc on our behalf they said that although they could see that lies had been told on oath,and rules had been bent and we had been put through a horrific ordeal that because there was no maladministration there was nothing they could do.(the local government ombudsman is only concerned with maladministration,nothing else unfortunately,and the lady ombudsman sent me her sincere good wishes after all wed been through) however it did give me an insight into how the law works and what buttons to press if you want to get action. :thumbsup: i agree with you though nina if the dogs have food,water and shelter theres not a lot can be done even if the poor bitches are being used like breeding machines

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What an awful time you have been through BUT you have come out the other side & YOU WON :cheers:

I'm sick of fighting these people with their back handers & lies BUT knowing what you went through & that the truth prevailed has bought a smile to my face :thumbsup:

 

[kris]

thanks for that,it was the worst time of my life but hey,theres folk out there been through a lot more than me. :thumbsup: im just throwing ideas around to try to get help for these poor dogs that are being bred from and the pups who are going to totally unsuitable homes and ending up in rescue,and people like yourselves who are left to mop us the mess.i wish i could do more.