Limit Dog Winner

[Claire]

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HI folks

I have been trying to work this out. Maybe one of you can help me.!

How can a dog that has INT CH title be eligable for Limit Dog? Should he not have been in open Dog.

When a dog that is shown in the South of Ireland has 3 Major Green Stars He must be shown in open as is over qualified for Limit.

I had thought that the dog gained his title after entries closed but then the title would not have appeared in the catalogue.

The only thing I can think of is that the dog got his title after he qualified , but should he not have been in open anyway??

easily confused aren't I ??

 

[dessie]

Yes, it should have been in Open. Must admit haven't really read the catalogue but was it the Silkstone dog?? If so and objection should be made!!

 

[Liz Third]

Apparantly the owner phoned the Kennel Club and asked about this, and was told that because it had not won in this country its wins did not count! Time the Kennel Club staff learnt their own rules, I feel. But a shame for the exhibitor if his wins are disqualified because the KC made a mistake.

 

[dessie]

And you can bet your bottom dollar they will disqualify. You would have thought they (or the printer) would have picked up the mistake from the entry form . Good old KC ......... so predictable

 

[dawn]

The way I understand it is that the wins have to have been in this country.

So in actually fact, just because it has an international title really means nothing in this country, the only wins that count towards which class the dog can enter are the wins it has been awarded in this country.

 

[Karen]

So what you are saying is we could end up with INT CHs in Novice?

 

[dessie]

Rubbish. A champion is a champion, whatever country it comes from. Even the KC is not that arrongant!! It's funny how all the other overseas competitors got it right.

 

[stonefox]

Have to agree totally with Dessie here.........

there is only one class for a champion - international or otherwise!

Kat.

 

[BeeJay]

My understanding is that a dog with a 3 or more CACIBS could only go in Open or depending on age Junior or Sp Yearling. This is stated in schedules which clearly states that any award which contributes to the

title Champion under any governing body recognised by KC is equivalent

to a CC including a five point GS.

An Int Ch has to have won a min of 4 CACIBS.

Quote "In the following definitions, a Challenge certificate includes any Show award that counts towards the title Champion under the rules of any governing body recognised by the Kennel Club".

 

[dawn]

Tactful as ever Dessie

BTW are you sure that ALL other overseas exhibitors have not made any errors as, maybe, in other breeds this has also occured?

I now realise I misread the

"In the following definitions, a Challenge certificate includes any Show award that counts towards the title Champion under the rules of any governing body recognised by the Kennel Club".

in the schedule although if it is possible for us to misunderstand how exhibitors from overseas cope I do not know. Surely though the dog in question should have been moved by either the KC when accepting the entry or the steward on the day?It would be unfortunately should any award be taken from the dog involved.

Dawn

 

[Vanna]

Absolutley Beejay. Anyone who has done well in Eire can confirm that. I won a 10 point Green Star with a puppy, which made his subseuqent career very difficult!

 

[dessie]

Say it how it is, that's me!! LOL.

Yes, I agree that the KC or the printer SHOULD have picked up the error in the first place. It was pointed out to me, on the day, in the catalogue by my Belgian friends so even they noticed!!

Not only that, why would anyone want to put a Champion in a class other than Open (barring age but, of course, their system is different on the continent so I don't think you would find many 'Junior Champions'). Something funny going on there if you ask me!! :0

 

[Karen]

Even if he was in the wrong class for what ever reason, June still thought him her 2nd best dog. Presumably if he had been in Open he would have been 2nd in that so it will be a shame if he loses his win.

I entered the wrong class on the day also, I thought it was the KC mistake so went stormin round there only to find I had just written the wrong number down. :b Never done that before not even with the puppies! Didnt make any difference we were NEVER going to get anything under June.

 

[stonefox]

Well then Karen - I suppose I should consider myself lucky that he was in the wrong class - otherwise I would have not been awarded my 2nd in open! Of course this is not necessarily true - as I was never in direct competition with the winner of Limit.

I suppose this brings me nicely on to my point in that I do feel that it would be nice if the dog / bitch standing in 2nd place to the CC winner should be brought in, at least, to be given the opportunity to challenge for the Reserve ticket. This happened in the bitch ring and I do feel that it is always nice to be given the chance to challenge even if it still goes to another class winner. After all to be awarded 2nd to the ticket winner when not having entered another class, and not having competed against the other class winners - still classes you as an unbeaten dog against the rest of the field.

I have been to shows in the past where there has been a really strong class from whence the ticket winner came and the reserve ticket been awarded to the winner of a much weaker class - simply because the judge did not call in 2nd place to the ticket winner to challenge for the reserve.

Some judges do and some judges do not - it would be nice to see a consistent approach.

What does everyone-else think.

Regards - Kat.

 

[Karen]

Yes, I agree, 2nd to the ticket winner should be called in to challenge for RCC but unfortunatly there is no rule. I just think its quite a nice thing to do, but June must have been very sure where she wanted the RCC to go.

 

[stonefox]

Hi Karen,

Must agree - the ticket winner and the Reserve ticket winner were certainly very typey.

Would certainly be nice to see this standardised though.

Maybe in the future if they ever decide to amalgamate Reserve tickets into tickets then this may become a necessity when giving tickets.

Byee - Kat.

 

[Claire]

So I am NOT just as daft as I Thought.

I Must say that most judges in the South of Ireland Call all unbeaten dogs back in to challenge for Reserve Green stars. I have also seen the reserve in the group being called in to challenge for RBIS.

Thanks for your answers

 

[dawn]

Surely the judge is aware (or should be aware) of the quality of the dog he placed 2nd to the CC winner. If he feels this dog is not of the quality required for the RCC why call it back in?

IMHO where there is an unrealistic chance of the exhibits in the lower classes getting the CC should they be held in the ring whilst judging is completed, for example should the minor puppy be expected to 'show' whilst the judge decides whether the CC winner is the Limit or Open winner? And then have to go back in to challenge for best puppy?

 

[stonefox]

Yes Dawn - I agree.

If a judge is more than happy with the quality of the dogs within the upper classes and is confident that the ticket and reserve ticket will be given to the winners of these classes then puppies should be dismissed from the ring and given a break. Puppies become fed-up very quickly.

Kat.

 

[dessie]

Karen is right. The 2nd to the CC winner does not have the 'right' to challenge for the RCC. It is up to the judge whether the want to see that dog again. It has nothing to do with consistency but is all at the judge's discretion.

I would loved to have been a fly on the wall when you went to the KC stand Karen ......... I actually entered Jamie in the 'wrong' class - didn't I Millie??? LOL ??? :0 :0

Of course I think the three best dogs in Open (i.e. Ronan, Rory and the Belgian dog) were all sent out unplaced just to give the others a chance :b