Looking For Advice On A New Racing Club

[kirislin]

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We've recently formed a whippet racing club. Our track is fantastic, 350mts straight grass.

we are still evolving, so far we have only had one comp where we ran whippets hand slipped in pairs over 150mts with the winner going on to the next round.

Long term I hope to have fields of at least 4 jump from the boxes & run the full distance.

We have allowed both ped & non peds to join.

My own hope is that eventually we'll run them separately, peds against peds, non peds against non peds. I would love it if one day the pedigree acheivements were recognised by the canine authority & pedigree people. Maybe one day, probably after I am long dead we will actually have some genuine pedigree racing lines here.

When I used to race at Tooradin, they all ran together in graded races from 1 fastest to 5 slowest. They were graded based on times. I know there's lots of different ways to race, I think you have weight classes?? and handicap races dont you?

What are the different racing systems & what do you think is best?

Linda

 

[Rob Rixon]

Congratulations on forming a new Racing Club. I am the founder of the EAWRC and I got things going at Newmarket back in the 70s. If you want any info regarding rule etc look at our pages. These were based on other (much older) clubs and are well tried and tested.

The racing at Newmarket started with two clubs using the track - The non-ped Newmarket WRC in the morning and the EAWRC after lunch. Every thing worked out well and their were various matches between the two clubs. Non-pedigree dogs were welcome to run with us (if they missed the morning races) and I sure peds were welcome in the morning.

BIG QUESTION is where do you run? Are you going to run all winter?

I'm sure you will soon get all the equipment necessary to run 4 dog races. If you want any specific info email me direct.

GOOD LUCK.

 

[Terry & Sheila Smith]

What are the different racing systems & what do you think is best?

Linda

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Times are the only fair way to do it especially if you have a mixed bag talent wise. Vicky Harper is the handicap whizz on this site & can give sound advice. Weight class racing will deter the members with dogs from the bigger show lines imo.

Good luck with it.

Terry Smith

 

[kirislin]

BIG QUESTION is where do you run?  Are you going to run all winter?

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Thanks for the replies so far. Rob, I am in Victoria, Australia. We have the use of a fabulous greyhound track, straight, grass, beautiully maintained.

I used to race with a club who had a round sand track. Mostly my whips were OK on it but my little Feather found it way too harsh & eventually split her webbing. I had to stop racing her there. She has no such trouble with the straight grass.

Here she is last Sunday winning her first heat :wub:

Linda

 

[Rob Rixon]

Hi

Interesting pic of the dogs running. The grass looks very good. My questions are is the lure on the inside or outside of the track? What is the complete distance once round the track? How many sets of traps are available and what is their position on the track. Do the traps have floors? Are they build to take the largest Greyhounds?

It looks good! We may come and give you a look - we (Philippa and I) have friends in Melbourne and we have been invited out lots of times. The idea of coming to see you run may tip the balance in favour of the trip!!

 

[Macha]

in the UK they use weight handicaps (but the heavier dogs aren't necessarily the fastest) and handicapping by time trial (safer as it almost guarantees a close finish, but doesn't seem fair that slower dogs can beat faster ones). When I was in the US (a long time ago; we had a bitch who won her Award of Racing Merit in 1970), they had four grades of racers and I think that is the fairest way to organise racing.

Are there any books or articles (in print or on the web) with lots of advice on how to set up a dog racing club?

 

[kirislin]

HiInteresting pic of the dogs running.  The grass looks very good.  My questions are is the lure on the inside or outside of the track?  What is the complete distance once round the track?  How many sets of traps are available and what is their position on the track.  Do the traps have floors?  Are they build to take the largest Greyhounds?

It looks good!  We may come and give you a look - we (Philippa and I) have friends in Melbourne and we have been invited out lots of times.  The idea of coming to see you run may tip the balance in favour of the trip!!

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Hi Rob, it's a straight track, lure on the inside, meaning closest to spectators, the track is 350metres long, with 8 greyhound starting boxes, they do have floors, this track holds greyhound meetings so all the equipment is top class, in fact they've just spent a fortune upgrading it all.

I used to train my whippets here twice a week & they jump from the greyhound boxes just fine. If/when we start proper racing I intend to use the greyhound boxes, that way well also have the races electronically timed, provided the whippets aren't so little they run under the timer :lol:

Our next meeting there will be next year, we haven't set our calendar yet. I'll let you know so you can plan your visit :cheers:

Linda

 

[Judy]

How you handicap surely depends on what you want to do.

If you want to give slow dogs the same chance of winning as a the faster dogs then you should handicap by ability which is often determined by times. This won't find you the fastest dog though. The owners of the slow dogs love it and the owners of the fast ones don't because their dogs have to start further back. It also has the added disadvantage of small dogs running with big ones which can lead to the smaller ones getting injured.

Another variation on this is to rune the dogs in graded groups. The fastest dogs might all run together in grade A and the next fastest in Grade B etc. This will find the fastest dogs in that grade but again there is the problem of size difference.

If you want to find the fastest dog regardless of size then you should have scratch racing. Again though there will be a mixture of sizes.

To get around the problem of size difference you can race in weight groups if you have enough dogs.

However scratch racing doesn't take account of the fact that in general the larger dogs are faster than smaller ones due to increased stride length etc. To get around this we have weight handicaps where larger dogs give smaller dogs a start.

This method has the advantage of not encouraging people to breed bigger and bigger whippets and I believe that this is the reason that this method was adopted in this country (UK) in the first place.

In this country, at our open meetings we are trying to find the fastest dog so we mostly have weight handicaps that are also run in weight groups to avoid dogs of vastly different sizes having to run together. However, at our championship meetings and a few other club open meetings we run in very small 2lb weight groups ie 20 & 21lbs together and 22lb and 23lbs together. Because the dogs are virtually the same size they can run off scratch.

Club meetings are a different thing though where the emphasis is on racing just for fun so slower dogs are often given a start as are puppies and veterans and handicapping methods can change from week to week for variety.

Whatever handicapping method or mixture of methods you decide on, have fun. It looks like you've got a lovely track

 

[Macha]

yes, I agree that for safety and fairness it is best to have some grouping by weight or height (even if you just have 2 classes/divisions and an upper limit) and then if you are getting sufficient dogs racing you could have speed grades within each size category. I think a combination of size and speed grading, but without handicaps, would be my ideal system if workable.

any answer to my question about written guides for people who would like to start up a racing club?

 

[kirislin]

My head is spinning, :blink: the different options are confusing sometimes. I think we'll probably go with times & weight. I personally am not keen on handicapping, I'd rather have grades where you can pick the fastest dog within a grade/weight range, but then again it could all appear different once it's in practice.

Macha, there is a great book by Pauline Wilson, Whippets: Rearing & Racing, it's quite a collectors book now, I've seen it fetch a bit on ebay.

**Ooh ooh, just remembered another question!! What distance do your whips run over? Do they only have one race per day?

At the old club I used to race at we'd have a sprint of 100mts & then they'd run the full distance later in the day, of 360mts or thereabouts. I get the impression you run over shorter distances, is that right?

Linda

 

[Macha]

the clubs I've visited in Britain raced courses of 150 to 200 yards (not metres; 1yd = 36 inches, 1 metre~ 39 inches). At the non-ped races I went to, scratch races for dogs over 40 lbs were 175 yards whilst in races handicapped by weight, the smallest dogs with started at 150 yards without handicaps and the traps for heavier dogs in their weight category were set further back.

some lurcher races I've gone to in N Ireland had special heats for whippets, but all dogs were handslipped from scratch - no handicapping - and raced the same distance as the lurchers, as much as 360 yrds.

 

[Judy]

My head is spinning,  :blink: the different options are confusing sometimes.  I think we'll probably go with times & weight.  I personally am not keen on handicapping, I'd rather have grades where you can pick the fastest dog within a grade/weight range, but then again it could all appear different once it's in practice. 
Macha, there is a great book by Pauline Wilson, Whippets: Rearing & Racing, it's quite a collectors book now, I've seen it fetch a bit on ebay. 

**Ooh ooh, just remembered another question!! What distance do your whips run over? Do they only have one race per day?

At the old club I used to race at we'd have a sprint of 100mts & then they'd run the full distance later in the day, of 360mts or thereabouts.  I get the impression you run over shorter distances, is that right?

Linda

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It varies at club racing but at opens its normally 150 yards at 1/2 yard per lb or 175 yards at 3/4 or 1 yard per lb. On bends its always 240 yards at 1 yard per lb. If there are a lot of weight groups then all distances are sometimes off scratch.

All dogs in a group run in 3,4 or 5 dog races (usually 4 but the number of dogs entered affects this) . The first two go through to the next round which might be quarter finals or semi finals depending on the entry and then the first two go forward again to the final. The dogs that don't go through in the first round get put through to consolation racing.

If you want to PM me with your email address, I'll email you a programme which should make it all a bit clearer.

 

[kirislin]

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It varies at club racing but at opens its normally 150 yards at 1/2 yard per lb or 175 yards at 3/4 or 1 yard per lb. On bends its always 240 yards at 1 yard per lb. If there are a lot of weight groups then all distances are sometimes off scratch.

All dogs in a group run in 3,4 or 5 dog races (usually 4 but the number of dogs entered affects this) . The first two go through to the next round which might be quarter finals or semi finals depending on the entry and then the first two go forward again to the final. The dogs that don't go through in the first round get put through to consolation racing.

If you want to PM me with your email address, I'll email you a programme which should make it all a bit clearer.

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Aah so there's something I didn't realise, they run several times per day! I thought you just meant they run the 150 or 175yd race & that's it for the day. So it really is very demanding on them, at our race day we ran them in 2 dog heats over 150mts & by the third round my little girl was getting tired although there were other factors that affected her on the day.

I am so glad I asked here, this has been great, thankyou all. sending you a PM Judy. :cheers:

Linda

 

[Judy]

Apart from the Championships where there is no consolation racing, all dogs get at least 2 races but if the dogs are lucky enough to reach the final they will usually have run 3 or 4 times in the day with about 30 minutes to an hour in between each round. Then, if they win their weight group they then run in a supreme final where all the weight group winners run off together. :sweating:

 

[mikadene]

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It varies at club racing but at opens its normally 150 yards at 1/2 yard per lb or 175 yards at 3/4 or 1 yard per lb. On bends its always 240 yards at 1 yard per lb. If there are a lot of weight groups then all distances are sometimes off scratch

Hi judy,

When was the handicap system change. In my day it was always 1Lb per yard ie 25 lb dog goes off scratch and a 24 lb dog gets 1 yard start. At some clubs dogs also got a yard if run with a bitch because normally bitches were faster than dogs. If I remember rightly it was also 0.05 seconds per yard as well ie two dogs one dog ran in a time 10.00 seconds for 150 yards and another dog ran 10.05 seconds so this dog got a yard start and the races were very close using that system. I may be wrong about the last time one I'll have to look at my old books but it was allways a yard difference never 1/2 yard.

Mike

 

[Judy]

Are you thinking of non-ped racing Mike or racing pre-WCRA? The handicap is sometimes 1 yard a lb but that would be for a distance of 175 yards plus. At club racing of course, they can change the handicaps from week to week for variety.

 

[kirislin]

What do you do for your dogs in between heats to ensure they've got the energy to continue for the day and run at their best.

Linda