Manchester Championship Show

[stonefox]

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Hi guys,

Dog CC - Pepperone Pace Setter

Bitch CC - Ch. Cobyco Call the Tune

BOB - Ch. Cobyco Call the Tune

Regards - Kathryn.

 

[dawn]

Manchester 2003-02-08

Judge Jean Taylor

RCC Dogs Shuleah Song and Dance Man

RCC Bitches Lowglen Silver Fern JW

BPIB Wheelspin News Flash

Unfortunately no success in the big ring for Lynn.

BTW were you there Kat??

Hows your pups?

We've seen a V E R Y promising bitch puppy today due out sometime late March / early April

 

[stonefox]

Hi Dawn,

Yup we were there - unfortunately Lyn went into the Champion Stakes before the breed and was beaten and thus had to withdraw from the group.

What was this promising bitch puppy then?

Regards - Kathryn.

 

[dawn]

I thought stakes classes were 'seperate' to breed judging and being beaten in a stakes class did not prohibit one from going BIG / BIS. In theory surely the dogs (that are eventually awarded BOB) could enter the stakes classes and all get beaten by dogs they then beat in the breed. In this case how would you get a BIG or even a BIS? The KC say a BIS must be declared but if ALL dogs are beaten it couldn'y happen - could it?

(Maybe I am thinking of specials - H E L P - anyone know the show regs for this?)

 

[Karen]

Thanks guys for results. I always think the bottom line is, BIS is for unbeaten dogs only and if you wish to withdraw (which I always would) from subsequent classes you can. Unless the word 'special' prefixes the class. In the case of Special Champion it does so perhaps Lynn was missinformed or knew who was going to win the group and wanted to get home at a reasonable hour.

 

[Karen]

Did Bitch puppy have a very black face Dawn?

 

[dawn]

the 'very promising' ? No just a pale (???dilute???) fawn with white trim.

 

[stonefox]

Dawn,

Come on then spill the beans.

Kathryn.

 

[Claire]

MMMM

late March thats when Basil id due out in the ring !!!

curiouser and curiouser.

 

[stonefox]

..........But claire..........Basil is a male Brindle parti not a dilute fawn bitch with white trim!!

Kathryn.

 

[Millie]

'Special' stakes classes i.e. Champion Stakes or Veteran Stakes means they can enter the Stakes class as a first entry without entering a breed class. You can withdraw from any AV class and remain unbeaten but cannot be beaten in a stakes class and then compete in the Group as you will be considered a beaten dog. BIS is only contested by unbeaten dogs, i.e. Group winners or BoBs if the show is judged on a non-group system. It is the same for Open or Ch shows.

This is stated quite clearly in any schedule under Rules & Regulations

Dessie & Millie

 

[dawn]

Am I correct then that IF (that is a big if !!) ALL the BOB's were also in Ch stakes, for example, and Ch Aphrael Thats a Surprise won the Ch stakes but Ch Khabaray Single Malt of Dumbriton won the breed (he was in the Ch stakes where Surprise beat him) how could there be a BIS? As all dogs were beaten dogs and thus ineligible for the big ring!

 

[stonefox]

Dawn,

You do seem to have yourself all in a muddle.

Following KC Rules & Regs: -

Dogs which become eligable for competition for BIG or BIS may be withdrawn from all other competeion other than breed classes and BOB prior to the competition for BIG or BIS as to remain UNBEATEN. Dogs may be withdrawn from ANY VARIETY classes when judged BEFORE the breed classes. Dogs beaten for Stud Dog, Brood Bitch, Progeny, Brace and Team (special classes), will not be considered to be beaten dogs.

In the case of Manchester Champ show. Lyn competed in ANY VARIETY Champion Stakes (this was not a special stakes class) and was beaten by other champions. Continuing to show here bitch in the breed as per regulations and gaining BOB, she was unable to compete for BIG due to her earlier defeat! Lyn did realise this matter at the moment of gaining BOB and subsequently informed the show secretary that she would be unable to compete for BIG which the secretary confirmed.

Mark.

 

[Millie]

You are correct in what you are saying Dawn.............but that if, is a very big IF!! Because for a start not all breeds have CC,s so have no Champions to enter the champion stakes class.

Loved the name CH. Aphrael Thats a Surprise !

 

[dessie]

I think you will find that a Champions Stakes class (like Veteran Stakes) will always be a 'Special' Stakes class and therefore you may enter the class WITHOUT entering the breed as well. The winners to these special classes (unless BOB as well) are not eligible for the Group. The only dogs eligible for the Group are BOBs and Best NSC in that Group. If they are scheduleded early in the day and you take the chance and get beaten ........... TOUGH!!! That's the chance you take entering and competing in variety classes. To enter all other stakes classes, Puppy, Special Yearling, Open, Members etc you have to have entered in your relevant breed class first.

 

[Karen]

As I said, if you think there is the remotest chance of you getting BOB dont go in anything else, BIG, BIS is for unbeaten dogs. Thats the only rule you really have to remember

Dawn, Was it Birmingham where Lynn won the stakes and BOB last year?

 

[aslan]

I know I'm a bit late coming in to this thread but......

I'm doin' a little dance over here in Oz .... Pacesetter got a CC - Yeah! Go You Good Thing!

And Call The Tune got BOB - what a beautiful girl!

(You have to imagine me dancing around my computer! ) I saw both these whippets at the Sth Yorkshire Whippet Club show when I was there. I like them both VERY much. Congratulations Lyn/Eva and Anita!