Martingale vs choke?

[Shalista]

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Hey so I am firmly in the positive dog training no choke/prong/e collars camp. however.

the rescue that I got solomon from insisted that I take him home on a martingale which is a collar type I freely confess i'd never seen before.

when I went to sign him up for dog training the training center stressed none of the choke/prong/e collars but did specify that martingales were preferred.

how are martingales not just glorified choke collars?

can someone explain?

 

[Hemlock]

People like to kid themselves. Although any collar can choke if misused. I suggest you follow your instincts - I also suggest he isn't ready for class training yet.

Having done a lot with dog rescues over the years, I have found their policies are not always sound either, and they rely heavily on volunteer help, not all of which is dog-savvy.

 

[JoanneF]

A martingale collar shouldn't be able to tighten to more than a normal flat collar either - so still with enough space to slip in a finger between it and the neck (more than one finger for larger dogs).

For handing over stressed dogs that are at real risk of running off, a slip lead is often used by rescues; and it's useful for the transfer, but I would say after that use good management and a harness.

 

[JudyN]

My understanding is that when a dog pulls, the martingale becomes tighter, but not smaller than the dog's neck - its main purpose is to prevent the dog backing out of it rather than to exert pressure on the dog's neck.

Ah, cross-posted with JoanneF again!

 

[Shalista]

A martingale collar shouldn't be able to tighten to more than a normal flat collar either - so still with enough space to slip in a finger between it and the neck (more than one finger for larger dogs).

I’ll have to check when we get home. I will definitly say that I didn’t use a flat collar with Bax because I didn’t want him to back out so knowing that it’s supposed to prevent that is a relief.

 

[Flobo]

For two of my dogs that have never worn harnesses I use these. I really like them for the safety aspect and prefer them over a normal collar purely so they don't back out in certain situations! If you fit them correctly, as said above, when the dog is just walking the collar is nice and loose which makes for pleasant walking for them I feel. In difficult situations they will only tighten to the way you've set them, as in like a normal collar, so not choking! I always use an inch wide, soft, slightly padded collar type too. I know if mine slipped a collar when in fight or flight mode it could be devasting, so I like them.(Harness to me is preferable of course, but I have to respect the owners wishes too)

 

[Shalista]

I also suggest he isn't ready for class training yet.

just saw this. @Hemlock when would you say he's ready for class? it doesn't start for a month so I thought that would be plenty of time for him to adjust. i wanted to get in because the classes fill up quick.

 

[Hemlock]

They each become ready in their own time, so I can't say when and - no matter how experienced - nor can anyone. A month is no time in these terms. Let the class fill up - he won't lack for anything he and you actually need by waiting for as long as it takes. There's very little a class situation can do that a savvy owner can't do on their own. Real-world training specifically designed for each individual dog is a lot less stressful for dogs and owners, and if anyone need help with a particular glitsch (most of us do from time to time) it's my opinion that one-to-one training is a better use for your money.

Tell us what you expect him to benefit from in class, and we may be able to offer some strategies.

 

[ivanart]

Hey so I am firmly in the positive dog training no choke/prong/e collars camp. however.

the rescue that I got solomon from insisted that I take him home on a martingale which is a collar type I freely confess i'd never seen before.

when I went to sign him up for dog training the training center stressed none of the choke/prong/e collars but did specify that martingales were preferred.

how are martingales not just glorified choke collars?

can someone explain?

Because they are adjusted to the dogs neck size unlike choke which can literally choke etc.

 

[Shalista]

They each become ready in their own time, so I can't say when and - no matter how experienced - nor can anyone. A month is no time in these terms. Let the class fill up - he won't lack for anything he and you actually need by waiting for as long as it takes. There's very little a class situation can do that a savvy owner can't do on their own. Real-world training specifically designed for each individual dog is a lot less stressful for dogs and owners, and if anyone need help with a particular glitsch (most of us do from time to time) it's my opinion that one-to-one training is a better use for your money.

Tell us what you expect him to benefit from in class, and we may be able to offer some strategies.

thank you. i decided to cancel the class. at the very least id like to work on his barrier frustration before he's locked in a room with a dozen other dogs. thankfully there's a million other dogs in the neighborhood we walk past every day so we can get lots of practice.

i realized that "I" like taking classes with my dogs and that's not always to the dogs benefit. this is a hard lesson I learned with bax years ago and I guess I had to learn it again with freddie.

the good news is that apparently he's INSANLY smart and highly food motivated. just practiced some it's yer choice with a medium to high value treat (milk bones. he has no standards. there were no lower value treats to practice with. tell me. what is possibly lower value than a milk bone?!?!??!?!) and he quickly worked his way up to 3 bone pieces inches from his paws on the ground.

door dashing is actually oddly enough resolving on it's own. for some random reason he started waiting. not taking any chances still! but I now sometimes have to encourage him to go through a door so I can close it behind us.

his sit remains decent but I am looking for tips on a settle cue or a place cue. he's VERY prone to settling on a comfy pile of blankets o the floor and he has one in every room. id like some kind of cue to get him to go to the place and settle down. it should be a super easy behavior to train because he does it on his own constantly I'm just not sure how to capture it because feel like him getting all excited about a treat will negate the benefits of settling in his spot. also he has a spot in every room and I'm not sure how to generalize it from "find the blankets in the living room" to "find a pile of blankets on the floor in any room" ideally my goal for this is to be able to bring some blankets with us where ever we go and be able to just drop them o the floor and have him settle down for a snooze while we grab drinks or something. again settling on his pile of blankets as soon as we sit down is a behavior he ALREADY offers every single time. id just like to be able to cue it in other situations like. we're leaving the house and I don't want to worry about dashing. it would be nice if I could tell him to go take a chill pill in the corner while I get out the door. also for polite people greetings in the house. so far he's been a saint but we can always work on him waiting on his blankets when someone comes in and releasing him once everyone has their shoes and coats off. (rereading this I feel like I may want to work on separate behaviors. having a specific mat instead of just a pile of blankets and then working on going to his "place" wherever that mat may be? maybe. idk. just brainstorming. all of this was WILDLY outside the scope of things bax was capable of and I'm drunk on possibilities lol)