Non-Ped (Good as Gold) Pictures

[jensen]

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Beesap lines almost certainly did enter racing strains and those dogs that were/ were thought to be derived from the strain were more succesful than the indiginous types.Boys Talk and Snow Fox did not go abroad for no reason and correspondance with USA racers would indicate they have been used at stud and their offspring are succesful - which would not be suprising.

Breeders with a fast line of dogs that do owe something to non ped breeding are not going to admit such if it disqualifies them from a racing body.

I don't believe that pedigree stock can compete with non ped/greyhound crosses as far as racing is concerned. Racing non ped bred dogs against pedigree's is pointless. You either race pedigrees or non peds. There is no glory in beating peds with non peds.

There's no question that Besaps lines entered the North American lines; they appear on the pedigrees! Nothing underhanded happened on this side of the water as far as that goes. For that matter, they entered the European bloodlines as well and appear in many of their racing pedigrees (Gasfirst and TGV for example).

And yes, the Boys Talk and Snow Fox progeny are doing very well.

My point is more to do with the type of racing whippets. It's only in countries that have weight restrictions (not just classes but restrictions), namely the UK and France, that the type has changed.

 

[michelle]

Jensen,

I'm not sure what you mean by weight restrictions.

The English peds do have a weight, 32lb, and AFAIK a height restriction (21 ins for dogs and 20 ins for bitches but I could be wrong) and from what you write the French system seems the same. Do you mean this causes a divergance of type compared to non-peds and "other" racing types.? If so by what mechanism?

I believe USA racers run on height which does produce a certain build of whippet ( and is similar to English lurcher racing) but I can`t see why height and weight restrictions per se should cause a difference in type between peds and non peds.

Tony

 

[jensen]

Jensen,
I'm not sure what you mean by weight restrictions.

The English peds do have a weight, 32lb, and AFAIK a height restriction (21 ins for dogs and 20 ins for bitches but I could be wrong) and from what you write the French system seems the same. Do you mean this causes a divergance of type compared to non-peds and "other" racing types.? If so by what mechanism?

Hi Tony,

The mechanism is breeding selection. I understand the French system better than the UK system so I'll use that as my frame of reference. (And my advance apologies for continuing this in this particular forum; it really doesn't have to do with non-ped racing specifically.)

The French system combines height limits with weight limits to create three classes:

Whippet: dogs, height: up to 49cm, weight: 12kg; bitches, height: up to 45cm, weight: 10kg

Grand Whippet: dogs, height: 49-51cm, weight: 12-14kg; bitches, height: 45-47cm, weight: 10-11.5kg

Tres Grand Whippet: dogs, height: 51-53cm, weight: 14-15.5kg; bitches, height: 47-49cm, weight: 11.5-13kg

So, breeders must select their stock within a fairly narrow range of heights and weights, generally selecting for as much height as they can get but without going over the weight restriction.

Using the GW dog class as an example, you'd end up with a 20" dog that weighed less than 30lbs. The average European (but not French) race-bred whippet of the same height would weigh closer to 33-35lbs. It doesn't take much to imagine what the type differences would be between our two hypothetical dogs...they'd be the same height but the French whippet would carry less bone and less muscle.

If we now look at the North American race-bred whippets, we see that they are taller and heavier than any other whippets but they tend to be of the same type as the non-French European whippets. Because both the NA and FCI systems constrain only the height, the weight and build of the dogs will work themselves out; there is no breeder selection based on weight and therefore no affect on the type.

You wrote earlier that "if form follows function then all racing whippets would look the same and would look like English non-peds." I believe this is true as long as there are no other constraints put upon breeding selection. Once the weight restrictions are introduced though, then you've thrown another criterion in the mix.

I was a proponent of a weight class system for North American racing but only if it were to replace the height system. Most other North American racers don't want to do away with the height limit and, if they support the weight limits, it is in addition to the height limit. Unfortunately, I think the greatest affect is made on type when both limits are in place.

Sorry to have gone on so long ...

cheers,

jen