Performance Enhancing Supplements/drugs

[nutter]

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is purpose breeding lurchers to the point they are almost greyhounds not a form of enhancement all be it genetic enhancement. just as a matter of interest what is the fractional breakdown of breeds the the big winners at the lurcher racing. like my dogs are about half greyhound and then repsectfully bull terrier for bouncer and my best guess for lady a bit of collie maybe terrier possibly deerhound. what is the fractional or percentage makeup of the racing dogs.

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(w00t) (w00t) (w00t)

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i suppose what i am saying is that the racing dogs are either mostly greyhound with a bit of whippet or mosty whippet with a bit of greyhound so you may as well dope them up with whatever you can get your hands on as winning and trophys are all that matters same as greyhounds and whippets themselves. there is another question that comes up if you want to race dogs why not just race greyhounds or whipppets at the end of the day they are better suited to the task and the racing is more regulated and better organised.

 

[wild whippies]

Hiya Nutter, The problem with genetics is you cannot express the quantity of breed in a pup unless it's 50/50. When I say this the only guaranteed 1/2 grey 1/2 whippet has to be a pure bred whippet X pure bred grey. In other words for every whippet chromosome it is paired with a greyhound chromosome.

Dogs have 78 chromosomes (39 pairs). If you took the above dog (let's say it was a bitch) and lined it with say another pure greyhound, there's no guarantee that genetcially you'll have a 3/4 greyhound. It may be the first pup acquires 35 whippet and 4 greyhound chromomes from the mother and this then paired with 39 chromosomes from the pure greyhound sire produces something that's genetically similar to it's mother. I.e. genetically it's near enough 1/2 whippet 1/2 grey rather than 3/4, 1/4 whippet. Does this make sense?

In the same litter another pup produced could acquire 38 greyhound chromosomes and 1 whippet chromosomes from the mother, this combined with the 39 greyhound chromosomes from the father would of course produce something that's genetically almost a pure bred greyhound.

To make it even more complex, whippets and greyhounds are very similar genetically! :wacko:

Obviously the closer in concentration you breed to a type, the more likely the end result will be genetically to that type but don't think for one second that it's a guarantee because it ain't. Many a non-ped racing breeder can give you examples of where a 'freak' pup has been produced that certainly wasn't anticipated! :lol:

Whether it's 'cheating' - I think it's hard to say, personally I think you should be breeding to type, be it lurcher, whippet, whatever. I also feel that those unanticipated 'freaks' shouldn't be barred from running either. Others will say you should be breeding for speed and if it happens that greyhound are faster for the tracks you intend on running on then obviously you will breed towards that type. The reason I say the latter statement is because for say a 150 yd straight dash, a genetically close greyhound may not excel in this type of racing and may be better suited to longer distances. As non-ped racers run varied distances and varied tracks I don't have an issue as I feel every dog will have it's day, I think the same could be said for lurcher racing.

This debate has been a strong one of late in the non-ped racing world. I for one do not think that capping a weight limit or size limit is the answer and I most certainly do not think barring certain litters from running is a suitable solution either. I say this because I know that genetics isn't straight cut and trying to draw the line on what percentages of breed is within these dogs is near impossible. Furthermore it would encourage falsifying of pedigrees which I personally feel would be more detrimental.

 

[stormydog]

is purpose breeding lurchers to the point they are almost greyhounds not a form of enhancement all be it genetic enhancement. just as a matter of interest what is the fractional breakdown of breeds the the big winners at the lurcher racing. like my dogs are about half greyhound and then repsectfully bull terrier for bouncer and my best guess for lady a bit of collie maybe terrier possibly deerhound. what is the fractional or percentage makeup of the racing dogs.

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(w00t) (w00t) (w00t)

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i suppose what i am saying is that the racing dogs are either mostly greyhound with a bit of whippet or mosty whippet with a bit of greyhound so you may as well dope them up with whatever you can get your hands on as winning and trophys are all that matters same as greyhounds and whippets themselves. there is another question that comes up if you want to race dogs why not just race greyhounds or whipppets at the end of the day they are better suited to the task and the racing is more regulated and better organised.

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i see your point adam. but, we could ask you if you want to kill foxes why dont you buy a gun (w00t) (w00t)

i personally race lurchers because its my excuse to have mini-holidays in olde engerland every fortnight with a bunch of alchos ! cant think of a better reason :thumbsup:

 

[wild whippies]

OI! You calling me an alco?!!! :lol: (w00t) :teehee: :cheers:

 

[stormydog]

OI! You calling me an alco?!!! :lol:   (w00t)   :teehee:   :cheers:

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i never did.....did i ? (w00t) ...wel see in 2 weeks :cheers:

 

[Towy]

i fink im going to start racing then could do with some good drinking o

 

[dazgail]

Some people also work their whippet/greyhounds and not only race them. When i worked my dogs i was only interested in getting half a dozen rabbits or there abouts so didn't need a strong dog type of lurcher nor one with loads of stamina.

Why is it that a lot of the time, those who keep whippet/greyhounds, are having to defend the type of lurcher they choose to breed and keep?

 

[stormydog]

is purpose breeding lurchers to the point they are almost greyhounds not a form of enhancement all be it genetic enhancement. just as a matter of interest what is the fractional breakdown of breeds the the big winners at the lurcher racing. like my dogs are about half greyhound and then repsectfully bull terrier for bouncer and my best guess for lady a bit of collie maybe terrier possibly deerhound. what is the fractional or percentage makeup of the racing dogs.

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(w00t) (w00t) (w00t)

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i suppose what i am saying is that the racing dogs are either mostly greyhound with a bit of whippet or mosty whippet with a bit of greyhound so you may as well dope them up with whatever you can get your hands on as winning and trophys are all that matters same as greyhounds and whippets themselves. there is another question that comes up if you want to race dogs why not just race greyhounds or whipppets at the end of the day they are better suited to the task and the racing is more regulated and better organised.

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actually adam, greyhounds are more suited to the task. ?? Colt has stuffed some greyhounds on the straights. how many runs do greyhound men give their dogs...? 1 lap of maybe 475 yds unless its a marathon racer. in england theres some tracks that are 5oo+ yards and if you qualify youll have run that 3-4 times.

greyhounds would be dead by then ..food for thought.

 

[nutter]

is purpose breeding lurchers to the point they are almost greyhounds not a form of enhancement all be it genetic enhancement. just as a matter of interest what is the fractional breakdown of breeds the the big winners at the lurcher racing. like my dogs are about half greyhound and then repsectfully bull terrier for bouncer and my best guess for lady a bit of collie maybe terrier possibly deerhound. what is the fractional or percentage makeup of the racing dogs.

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(w00t) (w00t) (w00t)

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i suppose what i am saying is that the racing dogs are either mostly greyhound with a bit of whippet or mosty whippet with a bit of greyhound so you may as well dope them up with whatever you can get your hands on as winning and trophys are all that matters same as greyhounds and whippets themselves. there is another question that comes up if you want to race dogs why not just race greyhounds or whipppets at the end of the day they are better suited to the task and the racing is more regulated and better organised.

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i see your point adam. but, we could ask you if you want to kill foxes why dont you buy a gun (w00t) (w00t)

i personally race lurchers because its my excuse to have mini-holidays in olde engerland every fortnight with a bunch of alchos ! cant think of a better reason :thumbsup:

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i hunt foxes and rabbits and i use lurchers because i enjoy the hunt and often they are much more effective than shooting. the lurcher was developed for hunting and pot filling and i like to carry these traditions forward. you own a gun john ever shot anything with it , i may apply for my gun i future but it woulod be for wildfowl and pheasant and pigeon shooting and i would like to use my lurchers for this purpose too as an alround rough shooters dog. i cant help how i feel abotu lurchers and thier purpose i think it is a shame for any lurcher with the exception of a crippled one to never have at least caught a rabbit and i think too that why try and invent the wheel as regards racing dogs then there are at least two purpose made breeds already established. lurcher racing came into existence as a recreational activity during summer months for people to make friends and gett thier dogs out whislt their quarry was left alone to repopulate. now it has become competitve with sheer hatred between the top competitors snide comments and jealous stare im glad my dog doesnt win much as i would not want to be the target of the green with envy brigade.

 

[dazgail]

is purpose breeding lurchers to the point they are almost greyhounds not a form of enhancement all be it genetic enhancement. just as a matter of interest what is the fractional breakdown of breeds the the big winners at the lurcher racing. like my dogs are about half greyhound and then repsectfully bull terrier for bouncer and my best guess for lady a bit of collie maybe terrier possibly deerhound. what is the fractional or percentage makeup of the racing dogs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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(w00t) (w00t) (w00t)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

i suppose what i am saying is that the racing dogs are either mostly greyhound with a bit of whippet or mosty whippet with a bit of greyhound so you may as well dope them up with whatever you can get your hands on as winning and trophys are all that matters same as greyhounds and whippets themselves. there is another question that comes up if you want to race dogs why not just race greyhounds or whipppets at the end of the day they are better suited to the task and the racing is more regulated and better organised.

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i see your point adam. but, we could ask you if you want to kill foxes why dont you buy a gun (w00t) (w00t)

i personally race lurchers because its my excuse to have mini-holidays in olde engerland every fortnight with a bunch of alchos ! cant think of a better reason :thumbsup:

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i hunt foxes and rabbits and i use lurchers because i enjoy the hunt and often they are much more effective than shooting. the lurcher was developed for hunting and pot filling and i like to carry these traditions forward. you own a gun john ever shot anything with it , i may apply for my gun i future but it woulod be for wildfowl and pheasant and pigeon shooting and i would like to use my lurchers for this purpose too as an alround rough shooters dog. i cant help how i feel abotu lurchers and thier purpose i think it is a shame for any lurcher with the exception of a crippled one to never have at least caught a rabbit and i think too that why try and invent the wheel as regards racing dogs then there are at least two purpose made breeds already established. lurcher racing came into existence as a recreational activity during summer months for people to make friends and gett thier dogs out whislt their quarry was left alone to repopulate. now it has become competitve with sheer hatred between the top competitors snide comments and jealous stare im glad my dog doesnt win much as i would not want to be the target of the green with envy brigade.

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Those who work and hunt their lurchers at whatever quarry are also in the green with envy brigade.....just listen to their conversations at any of the shows when talking about others people dogs especially when they are in the ring with regards to the gameness etc etc of dogs.

Come on, no section of the sport is immune to the green eyed monster nor the snide remarks that are made.

I don't have any difficulty with any type of lurcher anyone should choose to breed, own nor keep....i just wish people would feel the same way about my dogs.

 

[stormydog]

is purpose breeding lurchers to the point they are almost greyhounds not a form of enhancement all be it genetic enhancement. just as a matter of interest what is the fractional breakdown of breeds the the big winners at the lurcher racing. like my dogs are about half greyhound and then repsectfully bull terrier for bouncer and my best guess for lady a bit of collie maybe terrier possibly deerhound. what is the fractional or percentage makeup of the racing dogs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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(w00t) (w00t) (w00t)

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i suppose what i am saying is that the racing dogs are either mostly greyhound with a bit of whippet or mosty whippet with a bit of greyhound so you may as well dope them up with whatever you can get your hands on as winning and trophys are all that matters same as greyhounds and whippets themselves. there is another question that comes up if you want to race dogs why not just race greyhounds or whipppets at the end of the day they are better suited to the task and the racing is more regulated and better organised.

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i see your point adam. but, we could ask you if you want to kill foxes why dont you buy a gun (w00t) (w00t)

i personally race lurchers because its my excuse to have mini-holidays in olde engerland every fortnight with a bunch of alchos ! cant think of a better reason :thumbsup:

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i hunt foxes and rabbits and i use lurchers because i enjoy the hunt and often they are much more effective than shooting. the lurcher was developed for hunting and pot filling and i like to carry these traditions forward. you own a gun john ever shot anything with it , i may apply for my gun i future but it woulod be for wildfowl and pheasant and pigeon shooting and i would like to use my lurchers for this purpose too as an alround rough shooters dog. i cant help how i feel abotu lurchers and thier purpose i think it is a shame for any lurcher with the exception of a crippled one to never have at least caught a rabbit and i think too that why try and invent the wheel as regards racing dogs then there are at least two purpose made breeds already established. lurcher racing came into existence as a recreational activity during summer months for people to make friends and gett thier dogs out whislt their quarry was left alone to repopulate. now it has become competitve with sheer hatred between the top competitors snide comments and jealous stare im glad my dog doesnt win much as i would not want to be the target of the green with envy brigade.

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ive no time to shoot mate. ive shot for 30 years and ive lost interest besides. listen adam youre covering old old ground here, this one about what lurchers are for has been done 100000 times on here.

the thing is its people stirring it that caused the envy between racers and thats the sad fact of it here. ..usually by ones whove won toss all too !

ive been popped- at.. sniped- at and by people who have never won toss-all !

and guess what ? i couldnt give a "champion-lurcher-racers- flying- fuk" (w00t)

because i intend to keep giving these green faced people more reasons to get even greener :thumbsup:

im off now to polish my trophys...I MAY BE GONE SOME TIME :- "

 

[wild whippies]

Why is it that a lot of the time, those who keep whippet/greyhounds, are having to defend the type of lurcher they choose to breed and keep?

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Simply because they're winning. Trust me no-one is interested in the breeding of loosers so no-one will question it.

The problem with lurchers is that some owners are interested in racing, some are interested in working. With regards to working the only real proof of a good worker is in the field, unfortunately these days it's not a publicly observed sport. I don't feel a dog 'show' is adequate either as it's solely based on one person's opinion, can be biased and showing doesn't highlight a dogs intelligence, something I would consider essential to the working lurcher.

What I would say though is that the racing lurcher with regards to breeding is progressing to be the same as the non-ped whippet. It may be better to seperate the two as lurcher racing and whippet racing, especially when you look into the history of how the whippet came about. (i.e. whippets never had height / appearance restrictions and the BWRA today still asks that all dogs registered are whippet-like in appearance) Bear in mind this is the 'original' whippet appearance and not the Kennel Clubs perception!

So the question is, is every 'lurcher' that's won a race in say the past 5 years, whippet-like in appearance? If the answers yes then seperating the 2 may be a worthwhile consideration.

 

[rodders]

Think Linda Vaughns club used to do rough and smooth racing,and I think that would be the only way of seperating the dogs,but you could end up with a smooth coated beddy cross that looks just like a whippet/greyhound,so it wouldn't mean that you would just have whippet/greyhounds racing together.Lurcher racing proberbly did start as fun,but as for a lot of years been about competition.The majority of folk who are on the start line want to win,whats the point in racing if you don't want to win. :wacko: Karen

 

[wild whippies]

Interesting point Karen that someone's tried it before, shame it's got it's flaws. I suppose it's another reason to consider the ABCD format that John proposed, something I think both me & you would agree produces some great racing. :thumbsup:

 

[rodders]

Interesting point Karen that someone's tried it before, shame it's got it's flaws. I suppose it's another reason to consider the ABCD format that John proposed, something I think both me & you would agree produces some great racing.  :thumbsup:

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Completely agree Jac :thumbsup: there's nothing better than a close race for spectators :thumbsup: Sorry John think we've gone off topic