Pick Of Litter

[Cartman]

Join our free community today.

Connect with other like-minded dog lovers!

Login or Register

Picking wet puppies is about as good as reading tea leaves. :cheers:

 

[Karen]

Picking wet puppies is about as good as reading tea leaves. :cheers:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Sounds good thou :- "

 

[Cartman]

OK!!!! ) We have now got the pick of the litter. ) It does not matter whick way you do it, there is still one question not yet addressed.

The question is........is it a good example of the breed? :cheers:

You might have to go back to the tea leaves & reconsider the sire, & forgive me for saying the dam!!!!!!!! :- "

 

[kris]

Thanks TC, probably the best answer yet!
Those of you picking WET puppies.  What are you looking for apart from length?  A lot of novices seem to think they SHOULD know what to look for when a puppy is just born and see it as an expierenced breeder thing so justify your replies.  What can you see wet that you cant see later?

More questions.  What about toplines? what about necks and feet?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

i would be looking for shoulder angulation and hip angulation.its easier to see in a newborn wet pup than in an 6-8 week old bundle of fur that is distorted by fat and ungainly walking.also its easier to see the ribs and how well sprung they are or flat or slab sided.my breed is completely different to whippys though so i dont know if a whippet breeder is looking for the same as me.alsocan i say, i had a dobie pup who was one of the shortest backed dogs youve seen at 8 weeks ,but at 9-18 months his back was long and swayed and he had the most awful topline, :x it actually sagged and he looked herring gutted!he really looked awful!but at 2 years of age his nice short back and level topline came back and he looked completely different.he didnt win a carrot till he was turned 2 when he won his first res cc from ann arch,who gave him a fab write up and said when this dog finishes maturing hes going to show the winner of the c.c. a clean pair of heels!.so i would say dont give up,some dogs mature quicker than others. :thumbsup:

 

[Vicky]

I dont get the picking them when they're still wet one bit :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:

 

[Strike Whippets]

I dont get the picking them when they're still wet one bit :wacko:   :wacko:   :wacko:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I do ......I went for the length of their back .......They do look soooo different befor they dry out .......I always loved my Eric from birth ...... :b :wub: :b

 

[kris]

I dont get the picking them when they're still wet one bit :wacko:   :wacko:   :wacko:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

yes but you arent breeding for looks youre breeding for speed. :thumbsup: however,a well known person in dogs once said to me that the fastest dog hed ever seen was the worst one conformation wise for showing!it didnt have the correct angulation,was upright in shoulder and straight in stifle.but boy could it move.but going on the breed standard it shouldnt have been able to run for toffee! :blink:

 

[JAX]

Must agree with you there . When ever I go dog racing or even watch it on te TV I have my `judges hat` on and sure enough most of the poor movers are fast , esp those with the straighter stifles . My own dog GH Barty was super fast in sprints 100 yds in 4.8 secs (w00t) and he had very little bend . Unfortuanatley he was injured fairly young and only ever did 500yds on a couple of occasions , but he did actually win Best in Show at an open show :teehee: Not many racing Greyhounds have done that . :cheers: He was one of the reasons Im doing what i do now

Sorry to go off topic

But I suppose we should be looking for a dog who has speed and win at shows .

`Beauty and Purpose ` but if you look at `Woodys` post in Whips Gen He can do both and hes a son of CH Pencloe Dutch Gold :b

 

[Vicky]

I dont get the picking them when they're still wet one bit :wacko:   :wacko:   :wacko:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

yes but you arent breeding for looks youre breeding for speed. :thumbsup: however,a well known person in dogs once said to me that the fastest dog hed ever seen was the worst one conformation wise for showing!it didnt have the correct angulation,was upright in shoulder and straight in stifle.but boy could it move.but going on the breed standard it shouldnt have been able to run for toffee! :blink:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Hannah's breeding for speed too i presume :wacko: And a pup doesn't need to be newborn to see how lengthy it is, i usual like them when they're about 10 days old for that.

How can you check out angulation too on a newborn pup? and more to the point why would you? on a new born wet pup, my priority would be getting it suckling and leaving it well alone with mum.

 

[kris]

you can see the bone structure with your eyes,i dont interfere with a bitch and pups but i do LOOK to see what the pup is like.when theyre first born an wet its much easier to see things like angulation and structure.so the reason youd check out angulation on a pup is cos you dont want a showdog with upright shoulders,or straight stifles.well not in the breeds i was in anyway. :blink: when a pup is a little fat thing wobbling around on its first unsteady steps its harder to see what you are looking for.i make the initial assessment at birth and after that i used to just check them out every few days not by constantly touching them but by watching them toddle about,watching how they interacted with their litter mates and basically just watching them to make sure that the early promise they showed kept on improving and developing.it was very rare that i used to change my mind about a pup unless something developed at a later date that couldnt be foreseen earlier,eg mouths etc.maybe i didnt know what i was doing but i did pick out a few winners in my time.

 

[Vicky]

So it's not really coz they're wet you see what your looking for but just that they haven't had much feed and changed shape at this point? Or does them being wet make it easier to spot what you're looking for?

Bloody hard work this showing melarky :lol:

 

[kris]

wel i guess cos theyre wet theyre easier to see the bone structure through cos when the coat dries it also adds a bit of bulk to the body.i just always picked my pups when wet and after that it was just confirming my first thoughts.of course the more you keep to your line and the more experince youve had the easier it is.but the top breeder in my breed used to say he was hopeless at picking pups and just used to take pot luck and hope for the best! (w00t) (and he was top breeder for years!)dunno how he did it! :blink: maybe flipped a coin? :wacko:

 

[Vicky]

dunno how he did it! :blink: maybe flipped a coin? :wacko:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Hmmm see with racing dogs you'd have just as much luck doing exactly that!

 

[Ridgesetter]

Those of you picking WET puppies.  What are you looking for apart from length? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

BALANCE and SYMMETRY.

 

For me, it's not the length of this or that. I look for simplicity and graceful outline. When first born, does it resemble what you're looking for. Is everything in place and in balance and harmony. Just what I want in an adult.

 

But when it all comes down to it, some people pick puppies better than others. For some it's more good luck than a good choice. How often have you seen the 2nd pick turn out better than what the breeder kept? :- "

 

If you aren't confident, find someone who you believe does have a good eye and ask their opinion.

 

[whippynit]

Would just like to say very interesting thread for newbie like me! :thumbsup: :cheers:

 

[mikadene]

I would like to know from all you breeders how you pick your best puppy.
What age, and what you are looking for and why.

How often are you right, I know we sometimes dont see our second pick or it has gone a bit domestic but have all your must haves lived up to your expectations?

Lastly what advice would you give to someone picking a puppy for showing from thier first litter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Hi Folks,

As a breeder for the last 40 odd years, I have never left a bitch to whelp herself without me being present. I have heard of all sorts of problems and bitches and litters lost just because the owner needs sleep.

I remember one particular mating many years ago and it just happened to be an Alsatain litter but I was asked by the stud dog owner if I would consider using his dog on my girl. This was at a show and he got best dog and I took best bitch. Well it all came about and John the stud dog owner had only bred 2 litters so he decided he would like to come and see her whelp. Well after many cups of coffee as one does at these moments she started . They all looked very nice pups, and John was well pleased but we didn't have a sable yet. Then this dog came out and when wet they look black but John looked at me and I just said "Bloody hell".

You see this puppy was a sable and also it's shape was just what we have always bred for. He became a well known dog in Englan and folks knew him by his pet name Patrick, so I would say look at them when wet and make sure they have got it at birth or they will never have it. Make sure they have good angulation front and rear and in particular good strong bones and a good rear end. We don't want them too long either or too big. Many big dogs just finish up as pets. Let's hope when you see it then it will hit you in the face like it did with John and myself. Don't let any one fool you when they say It'll come later on my lot are slow developers. My theory is if they don't have it at birth they will never have it , and become just also rans.

Mike

 

[aslan]

Hats off to those of you who can pick them wet. I have never been able to - the angles all look the same to me at that time.

Up until about 4 weeks for me it is pretty much all emotional - picking with my heart and not my head. This is why my 'pick of the litter' changes weekly until I start to get serious. But I do look for "chunky, 'round' and strong bums" and I look for unfortunate placement of markings - just to be aware of them really - but that wouldn't really stop me from keeping one if I thought the conformation was excellent, 'cause I'm a bit of a fan of unusual/unfortunate markings.

I don't get serious until they are four weeks and are starting to move about. I stack them from four weeks and take photos and I film them moving and playing and slow down the footage so I can see what's going on. I take stacked photos fairly regularly - weekly now that I have a digital camera. If time is permitting I lead train from four weeks as well. At 8 weeks I film them again, moving on lead this time, and once again put it into slow motion. I am looking for good angulation and length in the still shots and extension (reach and drive) and true coming and going in the video. All the other things - head shape, mouth, spring of pastern, etc etc I look for with the naked eye.

I haven't always kept what I thought was the pick of the litter. On a number of occasions I have let the pick go - for various reasons - and have kept my second choice. Chelsea was a second pick - she became a Ch and a BIS winner - the 'pick' of that litter never fulfilled her early promise. Billie was a second pick - hated the show ring ... but so did her 'pick' sister. Layla was my pick, so were Dino and Aime (I kept two from the same litter) and I've had great success with them. Could go on and on here but I'll stop there.

Advice to people going to choose their first show puppy - take some experienced breed people with you. As a breeder I say - these are the available show puppies - you can take your pick from them.

 

[Cartman]

Looking at wet puppies, well if you think it is ok finr. Belive what you want. But there are things it will not tell you. Eye color, tail set, shape of feet, mouth, pricked ears etc.

We all know that whippets start to look darn good then a sudden growth upset everything, but they settle into a nice shape again.

In an ideal world running on is the way.

Picking the litter at 6mths, after removing the pets, & you would have about 50-50 chance of being right.

In a litter say of 5 to pick them wet your chances are 1 in 5.

As I have said befor, because by whatever method you use, "is it a good one" ?

 

[parnew]

A great topic. I must say that I have been lucky to pick the better pups of the litter in the past two litters, but mostly luck I feel. I agree with Lana in that it is your heart v's your head. There is a lot to look at in a show puppy and all these points can not be looked at until the pups are on there feet. I think the best way is to look at all the points of the litter and select what you feel is the closest to the standard and go with what you belive, take heaps of photo's of each litter at the same intervals so you can look back on previous litters and compare pic's.

 

[Seraphina]

Somebody old and wise once said: " It is easy to pick the best of the litter, deciding if it is really good is the difficult part". :wacko: