Pitbull (mongrel) seized by police - need help

[xavier2k3]

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Hi All,

I wonder if you can help. I'm posting on behalf of a dear friend of mine who has had her dog seized by the police. My friend is Polish and brought her dog (bitch) across when she moved over a couple years ago. The dog is registered in Poland as being a mongrel not a pitbull and has been neutered and microchipped etc. She was at work today when the police showed up stating that they had been to her house and taken the dog to carry out tests. Obviously my friend is very shaken up about this and worried as the dog has been registered and she has all the supporting documents which are in both English and Polish.

The dog is very well behaved and mannered with people but is very protective so does not like other animals. We are not sure how the police came out to finding out that the dog was there.

I've done a little bit of research and found the following info:

The only legally owned Pit Bull has been to court and added to the exempt register. This means neutered, a special tattoo, special insurance, never off lead and muzzled in public. Doing these things yourself does NOT legalise a dog. There is no licence, no DNA test, no other way to legally own one. It doesn't matter what you bought the dog as or what paperwork you have. If it looks like it is a Pit Bull, or cross of one and a trained Police expert says they believe it is, then the dog can be seized and you will have to go to court. The dog will be temperament tested in kennels, you cannot see it and if it passes, you may get your dog back if you are a responsible owner.

The type of dog that has most commonly been the subject of cases has been the pit bull terrier. Possessing an unregistered pit bull terrier type dog is unlawful and if you have such a dog you are committing a criminal offence. If you think you have an unregistered pit bull type dog, it cannot be voluntarily registered (ie. at present there is no application you can make to register your dog).

However, even if you have an unregistered pit bull terrier type dog, you have a reasonable chance of avoiding a destruction order being made. You must prove to a Court that your dog is not a danger to public safety in proceedings brought against you (usually by the Police, but may be brought by a Council or the RSPCA. Throughout this advice-note we shall only refer to the Police as they are most likely to bring a case).

1. The Police will have your dog examined by their experts and if they conclude that your dog is a pit bull terrier type:-(a) You will probably be prosecuted under Section 1 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991. At Court, unless you can prove that your dog isn't a pit bull terrier type dog you will be convicted. Provided you qualify on financial grounds, you are likely to be granted Legal Aid (a representation order), which means that public funding will pay for your dog to be examined by experts of your Solicitor's choosing. Although the Act gives a maximum penalty of 6 months prison, but the most likely sentence is that you will be fined (or given a conditional discharge) and ordered to pay costs. In theory you could be disqualified from having custody of a dog, but this is very rare. There is an appeal available to the Crown Court.
2. (b) As an alternative to using the criminal provisions in Section 1, the Police may use the civil provisions in Section 4B:-
   * It is commenced by 'application' ie not by complaint or information
   * There is unlikely to be legal aid available - this is a major problem and is likely to prevent most owners from being able to present a defence
   * It can be argued that there is no presumption that the dog is a pit bull type (so unless you admit the case the Police will probably have to prove their case on the balance of probabilities)
   * The Court does not have the power to impose any orders against you (ie. no prison, no fine and no costs - except for kennelling fees pending destruction)
3. As to your dog, (if the case is proven under either Section 1 or Section 4B) you will need to prove that it would not constitute a danger to public safety, and if you can, the Court may allow it to be registered (otherwise it must be destroyed). You will have to pay for the registration fee, the insurance, the neutering, microchipping and insurance. The dog will not be returned to you until all this is completed. Please remember that once the dog is returned then other conditions must also be complied with (see below).

Now, I'm confused as her dog is registered. What grounds has she been taken on? On the grounds that she may be a PitBull which is to be determined by the police despite having documentation to support otherwise? The only thing that was said by the arresting officer was that the dog should be insured but my friend wasn't aware that this was the case. When she took the dog to the vet when she first arrived years ago she was advised that she did not have to pay anything to keep the dog so didn't have any. The dog has never attacked anyone and has no record of doing so. The arresting officer just advised that thy will keep the dog for weeks whilst they carry out tests. My friend has already submitted her registration documents to the police officer.

Where exactly does she stand? A friend of mine advised that she needs to go to her local court to appeal her being taken but I need some clear cut information so that I can relay this to her as she is very worried about losing her dog understandably.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[eingana]

Hi xavier and welcome to DogForum

This is a really tough subject and I think your friend needs to move really quickly or her dog is lost for sure. I've known dogs that have been put to sleep within a few days of being seized.

I do have a friend who has successfully got a dog back from when he was seized for being 'of type' (the words they use when they claim that they're seizing a pit bull or pit bull cross. Unfortunately many pit bulls are registered and insured as cross breeds in order to avoid obviously falling foul of the law, so that doesn't help your friend, and police will always state that ignorance of the law is no excuse.

If the powers that be decide that the dog is 'of type' then the only recourse for getting her back is going to be through the courts, proving the dog's good behaviour record and asking to retrospectively have her registered and tattooed and accepted as a pit bull. Unless your friend has proof that the dog does not have pit in the mix of the mongrel there's very little chance that arguing that the dog is not a pit or pit mix will do any good at all.

I've sent a message to my friend to ask permission to share his number with you and I'll get back to you as soon as I have it, but you do need to be aware that his dog was in kennels for approaching a year while all of this was concluded and in all that time he didn't get to have any serious contact with the dog. The police can seize the dog in moments but it then takes a year of fighting to get her back, if you get her back at all.

Good luck.

 

[xavier2k3]

Thanks very much for your speedy reply and your welcome.

Yeh, there is no chance to prove that she does not have pit bull in her at all.

I was reading and I understand that the police have to take things to court before the dog can be unlawfully put down? What constitutes the dog being "of type"? When their temperament and behaviour is assessed in the kennels?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/471442/Outrage-as-police-executioners-seize-and-kill-22-pet-dogs - I came across this article which got me thinking about this.

I believe my friend may well be in in trouble as well if the court rules that she is a Dangerous dog and could potentially be charged for possession of a dangerous dog?

Thanks so much for contacting your friend and sorry for the million questions. So much is unknown right now. Any help right now is great help.

 

[xavier2k3]

So we had some update which seem positive. It is going to court on Friday.

Your dog XXXXXXX has been now been assessed by a police dog legislation officers, it was found to be, in their opinion, a dog which is prohibited under section 1 Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 that is a dog of the ‘type’ known as American Pit Bull Terrier.

You may challenge this finding but this will be at your own expense and you will need to employ a dog identification specialist to examine your dog.

This will significantly delay the return of your dog as the matter will have to be determined by a court.

Otherwise:

Thames Valley Police are prepared make an application under Section 4(b) of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 (as amended by the Dangerous Dogs (Amendment Act) 1997) for the Court to make a judgement with regard to your dog. This is not a prosecution but is a means by which the Court, having regard to all the circumstances, can decide whether to place it on the Index of Exempt Dogs. This is not a criminal matter and is a service we provide free of charge.

I have booked this application before XXXXX Magistrates Court XXXXX at XXXXX on XXXXX

Following the ruling in the R v Trafford Magistrates Court ex parte Riley (1996) 160 JP 418. You are entitled to be at this hearing, but are not required to be present.

In making this decision the courts must be “satisfied that the dog would not constitute a danger to the public”.

The law is clear as to your responsibilities as the owner of the dog and the timescales involved for actions to be taken following the court case

You will be required to agree:

The dog ‘XXXXXXXX’ be tattooed with the ‘Exempt Dogs’ Number

You as the owner will maintain authorised third party insurance for the dog for its whole life. The dog is to be kept secure within a dwelling/garden and not permitted to stray.

The dog is to be kept muzzled and kept on a lead when a public place,

The dog must be controlled by a responsible person over the age of 16 years.

The dog may not be sold, offered for sale or given away.

You, as the owner, must notify the index if the dog is absent from your address for more than 30 days.

You will be required to pay all the associated costs. This is currently £232.90 for your dog made up of £92.40 to the DEFRA dog’s index for the registration fee, £115.50 To XXXXXXXX police for the tattoo and £25.00 to Dogs Trust for insurance.

If after a period of two months have passed since the date on which the court order was made and there is no good reason why the dog has not been added to the register (normally because the fees have not been paid) then a ‘Contingency Destruction Order’ will take effect and the dog will automatically be destroyed.

My advice to you is to read this letter and fill the attached documents correctly and return them promptly. You should print, sign and return the acceptance form and the dog treatment and consent forms (separately attached) to myself at the address at the top of the page or from my business card

You should join Dogs Trust straight away if you have not already done so. Telephone 020 7837 0006 (Mon – Fri from 8.30am – 5.30pm). That will provide you with third party insurance accepted by the index at the lowest possible cost.

You will need the membership document in your possession to send with the index application.

Once I have the court order, which is a usually a formality if I tell them the dog is safe, well cared for and the owner is a responsible person. I will send you a copy and send a copy to the index and they will merge this with your application when it is received.

Once they issue the exempt dog number. I can arrange for you to go to the police station and pay XXXXXX Police for the tattoo number to your dog.

The dog will then be returned to you without delay.

If you have any questions, you can phone me during business hours on the number at the top of the letter.

An assessment certification letter was also emailed to my friend to sign acknowledging that the dog has been found to be of type and also an admittance and treatment consent form which provides permission for the police to have her tattoo'd.

So looks like it all hinges on what he says to the courts regarding her by the looks of things?

 

[eingana]

Oooh, that actually sounds more hopeful than many of the letters that I've read. Many of them are basically 'your dog is of type and isn't registered so it will be put to sleep unless you can convince us not to'.

Please ask your friend to read very carefully what she is consenting to, because you can let yourself in for all sorts of things if you don't read the small print.

Crossed fingers that this is a fast and not desperately expensive experience which allows her to be reunited with her dog, complete with all licenses, as soon as possible.

 

[xavier2k3]

Well none of the things she's to sign for have any small print. One is to confirm permission for her to be tattoo'd the other is below here:

This is to certify that xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx has been assessed by a xxxxxxxxxx Police Dog Legislation Officer and has been identified as a Pit Bull Terrier ‘type’ dog. Therefore being an illegal type dog under Section 1 Dangerous Dogs Act 1991.


In order for the police to apply for an order under Section 4b of the Dangerous Dogs Amendment Act 1997 you will be required to accept the finding of the Dog Legislation officer that your dog is of the ‘Type’ American Pit Bull Terrier.

The Dangerous Dogs advisor from Thames Valley Police will contact you in due course to discuss your options. He can be contacted on 01296 396243.

The decision to return this dog to you will ultimately be made in the Magistrates Court (Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, as amended 1997), so no guarantees can be made by the police officers dealing with this case.

I accept dog ‘XXXXXXXXXXXX’ is of type ‘American Pit Bull Terrier’ and I wish the police to proceed with the Section 4b Application on my behalf.

And she is asked to sign and send it back to the arresting officer. Section 4B reads as follows:

4BDestruction orders otherwise than on a conviction.(1)Where a dog is seized under section 5(1) or (2) below and it appears to a justice of the peace, or in Scotland a justice of the peace or sheriff—

(a)that no person has been or is to be prosecuted for an offence under this Act or an order under section 2 above in respect of that dog (whether because the owner cannot be found or for any other reason); or

(b)that the dog cannot be released into the custody or possession of its owner without the owner contravening the prohibition in section 1(3) above,

he may order the destruction of the dog and, subject to subsection (2) below, shall do so if it is one to which section 1 above applies.

(2)Nothing in subsection (1)(b) above shall require the justice or sheriff to order the destruction of a dog if he is satisfied—

(a)that the dog would not constitute a danger to public safety; and

(b)where the dog was born before 30th November 1991 and is subject to the prohibition in section 1(3) above, that there is a good reason why the dog has not been exempted from that prohibition.

(3)Where in a case falling within subsection (1)(b) above the justice or sheriff does not order the destruction of the dog, he shall order that, unless the dog is exempted from the prohibition in section 1(3) above within the requisite period, the dog shall be destroyed.

(4)Subsections (2) to (4) of section 4 above shall apply in relation to an order under subsection (1)(b) or (3) above as they apply in relation to an order under subsection (1)(a) of that section.

(5)Subsections (2) and (3) of section 4A above shall apply in relation to an order under subsection (3) above as they apply in relation to an order under subsection (1) of that section, except that the reference to the court in subsection (2) of that section shall be construed as a reference to the justice or sheriff.]

And the officer attached two pdfs one with information of how to obtain a certificate of exemption and the other the actual DEFRA application form. Seems he's been quite helpful in terms of what to do so hoping that his assessment was fine. In his emails he stated that the dog was assessed this afternoon and was very nervous but allowed them to examine her without any force being used which is hopeful, also.

 

[lurcherman]

Just my view but you say the dog not good around other people or other dogs and as its a pit x then so many things can happen, if that dog did ever get out then what sort of damage could it do??? For me only the very best of owner should have one if any at all...i have been around pit x s so i know how good they can be but for me everytime it must be prevention..

 

[xavier2k3]

Just my view but you say the dog not good around other people or other dogs and as its a pit x then so many things can happen, if that dog did ever get out then what sort of damage could it do??? For me only the very best of owner should have one if any at all...i have been around pit x s so i know how good they can be but for me everytime it must be prevention..

No the dog is fine around people, she'll do the usual thing like bark at the postman or at the doorbell but that's it. She gets very nervous around other dogs so gets a bit aggressive if they approach her but if they leave her be she is fine.

Anyway, an update. The police advised that this is a routine procedure for any pitbulls they encounter. As the pitbull was registered and all the documents were in order all they had to do was carry out an observation that she is no danger to others and advise the courts that she is fine to keep to obtain a court order. They then issue a certificate of exemption and add her to the register after tattooing her and adding her to the index.

This has all been done now and she should be returned back to my friend in the middle of next week. Thanks for all that helped!

 

[lurcherman]

I stand corrected on the dog with people,, when owning these type you really do have to be correct all the time.

 

[eingana]

I'm so glad to hear that there are at least some police forces who are rational and sensible about what to do with pits that have shown no signs of aggression with people. Too many of the police forces in this country just seize them and start off the process of destroying them immediately.

Please give the wee one a scruffle off me when your friend gets him back

 

[Abigailclarke72]

I hope he comes home soon. it must of been such a hectic experience

 

[Vans]

Any more news xavier?

 

[xavier2k3]

Hi all,

She was returned to my friend last Thursday. Very shaken and quiet initially but back to her usual self within a few days. She has a horrible tattoo on the underside of her hind legs with a number which is huge. Probably 4-5" in height and 5-6" in length which is not Nice at all but we are just happy that she is back. It's been a very worrying and expensive few weeks!

I'll post a pic of the tattoo when I get the chance.

Thanks again for all your help guys.

 

[eingana]

I'm so glad to hear that despite tattoos and the unpleasant experience, your friend did get the dog back. It's way too common for the police to take a blameless and friendly dog and insist upon destruction because they are 'of type' with no other reason than the shape of the muzzle or the length of the legs.

Please send scruffles from me