Puppies Developement

[Lolcoe]

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Hi there!

Went ringcraft last night and came home feeling totally deflated.

My pup was on the table and no-one could find his testicles, i know he definately has both and they do seem to be in the scrotum, but as she was being a bit rough with him he kind of tucked them away!!

He has just turned five months and is still losing baby teeth, so is he just a late developer as i dont know how they should be hanging by this age?

He had a pretty tough night at ringcraft as it was busy and he didnt want to do anything, so by the time he had his last turn on the table he was pretty anxious.

I came home and started comparing him to my greyhounds but i realise that his are only the size of a pea!!

Now im anxious and hope that someone can advise me.

Thankyou

Denise and Rebel

 

[dessie]

Pointless people being rough with puppies at ringcraft and trying to find testicles because they just draw them up even more!!! Standing is not a good position to try and find errant testicles in either. The best way to check them is to have the puppy sat, relaxed, on his back on your lap and they will hopefully drop into the scrotum automatically or you can ease them down.

Every puppy is different and some you will have the testicles come down and stay down from when they are very young, others lose them almost completely and others will have one, t'other or both going up and down like yo-yos. If you have a puppy that the testicles won't stay down on, keep repeating what I said above to encourage them down. Another tip for ringcraft is to sit the puppy first, the testicles should drop into the scrotum and then hold them in place while you gently and slowly stand him up. By doing that they should stay in place until some bloody idiot comes along and gets rough again.

Personally, I would request at ringcraft that they do not mess around with him trying to check if he is entire. As long as he stands whilst they run their hands all over him that should be sufficient.

 

[Karen]

Ditto, Our Frodo had weeeny weeeny nuts at six or 7 months, all dogs are different. If they are there at home dont worry at all and as Dessie says dont let anyone maul him around at ringcraft, thats not thier job.

 

[JAX]

Must agree with everything said, At ringcratf they should just be getting him used to being handled and to stand on the table ,not messing about with his `bits` :blink:

Montee had one that kept going up and down and at every oportunatity(sp) I would lay him across my lap and tease it down . OH said he had one that kept disappearing too , but I didnt believe him (w00t) .

Montee still likes to lay on his back across my knee :blink: I wonder why :thumbsup:

 

[Millie]

Just got to add, they can take anything up to 12mths to settle as well......... but most do so before that :thumbsup:

 

[jonesyins14]

Agree with all the other comments, my two boys were totally different. Bisc only seemed to have one at about 3-4 months, then the other one decided to appear and stayed. Cracker always clearly had two but were tiny until about 8 months, didnt properly develop until about 10 months.

My ringcraft never plays with bits and again I agree, tell them to leave well alone. :blink:

 

[Seraphina]

I am rather alarmed by everybody’s apparent acceptance of small not properly descended testicles as normal. There is a very good reason why testicles suppose to be outside of the body; they cannot develop and function properly at body temperature, they need to be slightly cooler. If we start accepting as normal dogs that will not get their testies down until 10 months or so we will end up with great infertility problems.

I would not sell a 9 weeks old puppy without his testicles descended to his scrotum.

Lida

 

[playawhile]

I am rather alarmed by everybody’s apparent acceptance of small not properly descended testicles as normal.  There is a very good reason why testicles suppose to be outside of the body; they cannot develop and function properly at body temperature, they need to be slightly cooler.  If we start accepting as normal dogs that will not get their testies down until 10 months or so we will end up with great infertility problems.  I would not sell a 9 weeks old puppy without his testicles descended to his scrotum.

Lida

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Hi!

I don't think it's neccessary to get so drastic as a puppy can have the testicles down 99.9% of the time but when you pick it up etc. they might leave the scrotum temporarily. I have seen this in dogs that ended up producing loads of puppies and the sons had no problems.

Henrik Härling

 

[JAX]

I am rather alarmed by everybody’s apparent acceptance of small not properly descended testicles as normal.  There is a very good reason why testicles suppose to be outside of the body; they cannot develop and function properly at body temperature, they need to be slightly cooler.  If we start accepting as normal dogs that will not get their testies down until 10 months or so we will end up with great infertility problems.  I would not sell a 9 weeks old puppy without his testicles descended to his scrotum.

Lida

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She didnt say THEY DONT GET THERE TESTES DOWN till 10 months , she said THEY DONT DEVELOPE!!! EG get the size they should be ( Well thats what I think she meant )

 

[Seraphina]

I don't think it's neccessary to get so drastic as a puppy can have the testicles down 99.9% of the time but when you pick it up etc. they might leave the scrotum temporarily. I have seen this in dogs that ended up producing loads of puppies and the sons had no problems.

Henrik Härling

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What should be normal is both testicles descended into scrotum at birth and too big to completely disapear back into the abdomen.

Unfortunately, that is I believe almost unheard of in whippets nowdays. But we should acknowledge that hidden testicles is a problem and not accept it as normal. Or it will get worse.

As long as the testie come down in the first few weeks after birth and stay in the scrotum most of the time, there should not be a fertility problem with this dog. However will this problem be getting worse in next generations? My guess is; very likely, especially in closely bred lines. I am not talking necessarily about the next year, but 20 years down the trek.

Lida

 

[Lolcoe]

Well it seems i've caused a stir!!

I've been checking them constantly much to the amusement of others, in fact i came home last night from work and he was laid on the sofa, legs akimbo, waiting for a feel!!!

They seem perfectly normal and i think it must be when he is totally frightened that he draws them up into his body. I think he associates women handling him on the table with the vet as he is perfectly calm with men handling him, so may have to start showing him with male judges until he is used to women handling him.

Im hoping it doesnt affect breeding as thats why i went for a Dumbriton dog, but time will tell.

Denise and Rebel

 

[dawn]

What should be normal is both testicles descended into scrotum at birth

I dont know about anyone else on here but I would not dream of examining a new born pup to see if had two testicles!!

Denise try not to worry two much about them disapearing sometimes it IS what happens, they get uptight and retract them. As others have said just keep teasing them down whilst at home.

I know of a dog that had one tesicle up to being two and a half, he was sold as a pet and them at two and half the other one dropped. I am sure this scenario is very rare.

BTW welcome to the board.

What breeding is your Dumbriton dog?

Patsy does come on the board but if you want any advice about your young lad I am sure she would not mind you contacting her.

 

[chelynnah]

I don't have males, but EVERYTHING I have heard from anyone in whippets over the last few years that I have been investigating them is that the testicles will go up and down at will and that you won't know anything for sure until they are closer to a year for some dogs.

As for ringcraft - you need to take him back and get some gentle people to go over him - just lightly put their hands over him in all the right places. Let them give him a treat or two as well, as the experience he has at this age at ringcraft could set him up to enjoy the ring or be afraid of it, and with all that overhandling it may set him back a bit unless you can get right out there again with a very positive experience.

I would probably suggest just once or twice on the table only and end on a positive experience - if he gives the 'judge' a kiss after being handled at this point don't correct him - make sure he enjoys it and end on something nice like that - reward him and take him home happy.

And for the testicles - don't worry too much yet - we're talking abouta 5 month old? If they're down most of the time I would suggest (but don't 'know') they will be fine. Heck if I had the ability to withdraw MY bits from strange people handling them in a strange environment (not that people are :blink: ) *I* certainly would be hiding them!!

Wendy

 

[JAX]

  Heck if I had the ability to withdraw MY bits from strange people handling them in a strange environment (not that people are :blink: ) *I* certainly would be hiding them!!
Wendy

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You know I really should read these posts more clearly , cos the first time I read this I felt sure it said `Heck if I had the ability to withdraw MY T``ts !!! . It made me laugh anyhow ! but then I read it again it wasnt so funny :- " Sorry Wendy , hope I havn t offened you . but im sure you can take a joke . Its true whatever :lol: I thought `gosh shes a brave lady ` :lol: :lol:

 

[kris]

well i dont know anything about whippets but ive bred dobermanns,manchester terriers and japanese shiba inus for 30 odd years.retracted testicles in a young dog when being roughly handled on a table at training class is something that wouldnt worry me in the slightest.the poor dog is scared and is retracting them out of fear.it doesnt seem to me to be an indicator of a hereditary defect.i dont worry about testicles as long as when the dog is relaxed they are down.but ive sold pups as pets who have had undescended testicles when sold,but they have descended later.i know my vet when giving the pups the once over said to me bring these back in a few months and well fix those hernias its only a small op.i told him no thanks ill bring them back in a few days and they wont have a hernia,ill show you.and i did and he was gobsmacked!i showed him how to do it and he said hed pass it on to anyone else who came in with that problem cos he only knew of the operation way to cure it.the manchester bitch i had was over enthusiastic with her pups and would tug on the umbilical cord till most of her pups had a small hernia.but i knew how to get rid of hernias by a longtime old method that id been told about by dorothy norman who had been in mannies for years.now some folk would say thats wrong,its hereditary.but it wasnt .if i managed to get the pup away from her and cut the cord (i had to do it very short as if i left anything for her to pull on she would!)they never had any hernias.she was just an over obsessive mum who wanted to make sure everything was done properly,she was just a little enthusiastic about it!

 

[dawn]

Trust u to get the wrong end of the stick Jax :clown:

Bits she said Bits not T..s

A one track mind has Jax Wendy!!!!! its her age u know!!

 

[Seraphina]

What should be normal is both testicles descended into scrotum at birth

I dont know about anyone else on here but I would not dream of examining a new born pup to see if had two testicles!!

I bred my first litter some 35 years ago and in the following 18 years I have never seen a male puppy that did not have his testicles at birth.

You did not have to search for them, as you examined each puppy for other birth defects you just glanced at his crotch and the two little bumps were clearly visible.

I had great Danes, and seen many other litters (other breeds) bred by friends.

The first litter that did not have all the testies at birth was in 80' and their breeder was frantic, they however came down within couple of days.

I was not involved with Whippets in those time, so i have no idea when disapearing testicles became acceptable. When I had my first litter of Whippets their testies did not come down until about the 3rd week. I was surprised to learn that was better than lot of other litters. My last litter all 3 boys had their testicles clearly visible at birth.

PS to Denise, sorry i seem to sidetrek your subject.

Lida

 

[Lolcoe]

Rebel's (Shanjo Double Gold) breeding is Fullerton Evaso Andy from Ch Nevedith Justa Jesta x Dumbriton Spell Binder from Ch Khabary Single Malt at Dumbriton.

To me that seemed good breeding but now fancying a Crosscop puppy bitch at some point, met Mrs Morris on Sunday and she is a lovely woman and did well at Manchester.

 

[dawn]

Hi Lida

you examined each puppy for other birth defects

Yes we examine for birth defects but not testicles at birth.

Does anyone else check for testicles at birth????

 

[Debra]

No, I don't check for testicles at birth.

My Homer :wub: always sucked up a testicle when i put him on the table at a shows when he was young :b , especially if it was an overseas judge :b . I think he liked to see me sweat, and see how much i would blush :b . But in no way should ringcraft be rough with pups, what's the quickest way to put pups off. I would be telling them to leave his bit's alone otherwise Debra will come over from Australia and feel their bit's :angry: .

Yes we examine for birth defects but not testicles at birth.

Does anyone else check for testicles at birth????

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