Puppies Developement

[JAX]

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Hi Lida


Does anyone else check for testicles at birth????

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Gooodness me , NO ,I would never have thought you could see them then anyway .

 

[Millie]

Answers no here as well............. not in R. Collies, Greyhounds or whippets can I say I've seen the boys testicles at birth !! :unsure: )

 

[Lolcoe]

Thinking of changing to a different ringcraft class after what everyone has said.

She was in a no mess mood the other night as she was also a bit rough with a corgi. He (the corgi) wouldnt walk on the mat and wanted to sit so she literally dragged it on its bottom along the mats. It was obviously scared because the other woman was moving the mats to make a triangle and he didn't like the noise.

My next nearest ringcraft class is 30 miles away so wont be able to make it every week, but i think that the current one no good for timid dogs to learn.

 

[Vicky]

Thinking of changing to a different ringcraft class after what everyone has said.She was in a no mess mood the other night as she was also a bit rough with a corgi. He (the corgi) wouldnt walk on the mat and wanted to sit so she literally dragged it on its bottom along the mats. It was obviously scared because the other woman was moving the mats to make a triangle and he didn't like the noise.

My next nearest ringcraft class is 30 miles away so wont be able to make it every week, but i think that the current one no good for timid dogs to learn.

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I don't do the showing thing, but i'd have something to say if anyone treated any of my dogs like that, thats horrible & surely a fast way to put the dog off showing!

 

[malin]

Choosing another ring craft class sounds like a sound idea! There is nothing more important than giving the puppy a happy positive experience in my opinion.

Whippets nowadays are often kept in much heavier condition than in days gone by. In my opinion it is much easier for testicles to hide because of this without there necessarily being anything wrong.

A tip for an insecure pup - I would be careful of how I lift the pup up on the table.

Regarding testicles: I check at birth and I often imagine that I see something but I always ascribe that to overly positive thinking on my part. When they are 14 days old – that is when I'll check for real. If I can't find them then that pup will not be considered by myself for further breeding in my own program even if they are down by 8 weeks.

 

[Lolcoe]

Which is the best way to lift onto the table then? I am scooping him up, one hand in front of the front legs and one hand in his middle. It doesnt seem to bother him. This is the same way we lift our greyhounds.

 

[malin]

Which is the best way to lift onto the table then? I am scooping him up, one hand in front of the front legs and one hand in his middle.

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In my opinion that is the total opposite of a good table+testicle lift... You need to give him equal support under his behind (=butt) when lifting. I would put one arm under his thighs and the other arm under/behind his front legs and then lift. Kind of like a chair. In my opinion less chance of testicles going into hiding on a young dog that way. Hope I'm making some sense :blink:

 

[dessie]

I could be wrong here (perhaps ILKC could confirm or deny) but I don't actually think that mammals have their testes descended right from birth. I would think that those of you who can 'feel' descended testicles in newborns are actually feeling the scrotum developing. Testes can go up and down as long as the inguinal ring is open. The timing of this certainly seems to vary from individual to individual.

I certainly don't 'examine' new borns for any defects unless I have a very strong suspicion that there is something wrong, e.g. not suckling properly then the mouth would be checked for a cleft palate. I routinely check and make a note of weight, sex, colour/markings and that is about it.

Those of you who dismiss a promising puppy at 8 weeks old just because he does not appear entire at that moment in time must have an absolute stash of topflight bloodstock to choose from, is all I can surmise!!!

 

[Jan Doherty]

To me there is far too much prodding and poking of puppies testicles when they are babies. What will be will be. My Iggie Teddy Edward only had one up to 8 weeks so I decided to pet home him. At 9 weeks the second one dropped and so he stayed.

I have heard more than once over the years the question asked "where have all the good whippet dogs gone?"

The answer given is they are all sat on someones settee with one ball :cheers:

Not quite true as there are some lovely dogs out there but if you buy a dog in any breed these days you cross your fingers that they will be entire.

Actually didnt you say something similar about blokes once Jax?

:huggles: :thumbsup:

 

[chelynnah]

You know I really should read these posts more clearly , cos the first time I read this I felt sure it said `Heck if I had the ability to withdraw MY T``ts !!! . It made me laugh anyhow ! but then I read it again it wasnt so funny  :- "  Sorry Wendy , hope I havn t offened you . but im sure you can take a joke . Its true whatever  :lol:   I thought `gosh shes a brave lady ` :lol:   :lol:

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Jax - absolutely no offense here - I did try to make the post so it couldn't be 'misconstrued' but I've got a good sense of humour myself so was figuring I'd get some sort of comment..... :- "

Thanks for the laugh!!

Wendy

 

[JAX]

Not quite true as there are some lovely dogs out there but if you buy a dog in any breed these days you cross your fingers that they will be entire. Actually didnt you say something similar about blokes once Jax?

:huggles:   :thumbsup:

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How come if Sex or anything to do with it comes up I get mentioned !! Cant think why :- "

Also agree with dessie AGAIN (w00t) , when my pups are born . Im happy to check all is ok , feeding , sex colour and weight, dont even think about `bits` till much later :unsure:

 

[Millie]

Also agree with dessie AGAIN (w00t)

You have got to stop that Jax........... it could get dangerous ! (w00t) (w00t) (w00t)

 

[silas]

Hi Denise

Welcome to the board.

Just wanted to say that I own two Dumbriton dogs and I am very grateful to Patsy and Danny for giving me the opportunity to have them.

Both Patsy and Danny have been very helpful and supportive and the dogs are both beautiful and lovely little people. :huggles:

Good luck with your boy and hope to see you at the shows.

Jan, Fabio and Giorgio.

 

[aslan]

two testicles fully descended into the scrotum at birth ???

Newborns don't even have a scrotum for balls to descend into!!!!!

I will certainly look for them at this stage but won't touch. And certainly would not be deflated if I couldn't see them on a newborn pup.

If I can see them at two weeks that's great. But if they're not there yet that's not the end of the world.

By four weeks if they aren't presenting themselves, I will start to touch to see if they're there.

If they're not there (at all) by six weeks I am worried, and would probably deem the pup a pet. If I can see them when the pup is relaxed I'm happy. If I have to massage them down I am a bit concerned but continue to do it because I think it helps. I let my pet pups go at 8 weeks so if there is no sign of them by then I tell people to keep in touch and let me know what happens. If it is a pup that I particularly like and want to go to the show ring I will keep him until 3 mths and if they aren't down of their own accord by then I would probably sell him as a pet. If it was a pup I was intending to keep for myself I would let it go on a bit longer.

I don't believe that if they are a bit slow to come down that this is an indicator of a fertility problem. Many dogs are slow developers. So are many bitches. Layla didn't have her first season until she was 2 1/2 - did that mean she had a fertility problem? No - she had 6 puppies from one mating.

On the other side of the coin ... I had a pup once who had two "at birth" (well within the first week) and definitely had them at 8 weeks when I gave him to my parents as a show prospect. By the time he was 6mths they were both completely gone and did not return! So perhaps we should not be so quick to assume that if they have them at birth then they are there for life!

 

[Seraphina]

Hi everyone;

I am not saying that there is a real problem with a puppy that has only one testicle at 9 weeks. The reason I would not sell a 9 weeks old puppy without a testicle is that I do not like to hand over a puppy with a potential problem. If the testicle decides not to come down, then it should be surgically removed as it has a significantly increased potential to get cancerous. However, castrating a dog with one testicle somewhere in the abdomen is not such a simple procedure, and if the vet has to search for it, the op could become considerably more expensive. As it is not an urgent operation, it is be one of those things that people mean to do but keep putting of. I therefore would prefer to keep a puppy with this problem until he is about 12 weeks, and if has not dropped the testis have the op done. Then I can place him in his new home with the knowledge I have done everything I could to make sure he will have a good healthy life.

Of-course, it is perfectly fine to wait lot longer, hoping it will drop by itself. If it does not by about a year or 18 month do the op then, as long as I could be sure the owners would do it.

And of-course, some can be teased or shaken down, but as long as the ring is too loose to keep the testicles from reintering back into the abdomen, they can go back in and there is the possibility of getting stuck there.

 

[Seraphina]

I could be wrong here (perhaps ILKC could confirm or deny) but I don't actually think that mammals have their testes descended right from birth.  I would think that those of you who can 'feel' descended testicles in newborns are actually feeling the scrotum developing.  Testes can go up and down as long as the inguinal ring is open.  The timing of this certainly seems to vary from individual to individual. 
I certainly don't 'examine' new borns for any defects unless I have a very strong suspicion that there is something wrong, e.g. not suckling properly then the mouth would be checked for a cleft palate.  I routinely check and make a note of weight, sex, colour/markings and that is about it.

Well, human babies certainly have both testicles at birth, so do horses, kittens are too fluffy to see and I certainly would not try to feel or prod for testicles in new born anything. All the boys in my Great Dane litters I bred had clearly vissible two bumps at birth, I did not have to search for them, as I checked what sex they were I could see them. The scrotum is also quite apparent, even if it is empty. It looks slightly different from the surounding skin. I never thought I will need to descibe this to anybody. I think I will be taking lot of pics when my next litter arrives !!!!!!!!! Wherever their balls may be.

Lida

 

[Seraphina]

I don't believe that if they are a bit slow to come down that this is an indicator of a fertility problem.  Many dogs are slow developers.  So are many bitches.  Layla didn't have her first season until she was 2 1/2 - did that mean she had a fertility problem?  No - she had 6 puppies from one mating.

I did not say that late descending testicles are a sign of fertility problem. I said that testicles are positioned on the outside of the body for a very good reason = temperature control. Testicles cannot function properly at body temperture. they need to be slightly cooler, so undescended testicle will, will in course of time, become infertile. Of-course, testicle which is for most of the time out and only occassionaly pops back in is probably not going to be affected. But, testicles belong in the scrotum.

And I am not sure that not descended testicle can be compared to a late first season in a bitch. The comparison shoudl be the first ovulation in the bitch to the age the dog starts developing sperm. That is the stage of development, when the sex hormones start up the reproductive system and individual develops into maturity.

 

[Seraphina]

On the other side of the coin ... I had a pup once who had two "at birth" (well within the first week) and definitely had them at 8 weeks when I gave him to my parents as a show prospect. By the time he was 6mths they were both completely gone and did not return! So perhaps we should not be so quick to assume that if they have them at birth then they are there for life!

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That can happen, usually due to an injury. If he got a kick on his butt or fell in unfortunate way. If he had his testicles for 6 months and then they disapeared I would think something out of ordinary had to happen.

Lida

 

[Seraphina]

I have heard more than once over the years the question asked "where have all the good whippet dogs gone?"The answer given is they are all sat on someones settee with one ball :cheers:

Not quite true as there are some lovely dogs out there but if you buy a dog in any breed these days you cross your fingers that they will be entire.

I woder why is it like this. Is it purely genetical, which means that if we use dogs who were late to drop there testies and line breed, are we going to see the testies comming down later and later or not at all? Or is there an environmental component?

I feel we need to ask these questions, we are dealing with reproductive system of our dogs.

There is one thing to hide such faults like pricked ears. The worst what can happen is that some time in the future we will have Whippets only with pricked ears. When your grandchildren will look at pics of your dogs they will laugh at our dogs' silly droopy ears. But Whippet with pricked ears will be perfectly viable breed. Dogs with testicles in their abdomen will not.

Lida

 

[Seraphina]

Here is Moloko, one of the boys who had his testicles visible at birth. Pictured at 8 weeks with his sister Callista. As you can see his testicles are not in the scrotum, they have moved little bit forward. But they have never gone missing. If I sat him up they would move back into position. You can see the scrotum as little bit of loose skin. This is what you would see, just proportionally smaller, at birth.

I would like to make it perfectly clear I DO NOT PROD my newborn babies!

As each puppy is born I immediately make sure it’s nasal passages are clear, I weigh him/her, check the mouth, feet, spine and look what sex the puppy is. With my litters in past just a glance was enough to see the bumps of testicles – well; the Great Danes do have big ones. The first 2 litters of Whippets, which I raised, did not have them at birth as far as I could see. With the 3rd, my last year litter, I did not expect to have them, so I did not actually look for them; they were so clearly apparent under the skin I could not miss them when checking what sex the puppy was.

Lida