Puppy barking at other dogs

[SCheung]

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Hello everyone, Hoping for some advice or experience with anyone who has had a Westie puppy or any puppy in fact! Our gorgeous 15 week old Westie, Milo has been going crazy at other dogs regardless of breed, sex, size or distance between him and them!
He has met 4 family and friends dogs, off the lead in a closed environment and after some (very loud) barking he has calmed down and just wants to play (tail wagging and no sign of aggression or wanting to bite or lunge out).
HOWEVER he continues to have an issue with dogs in the street and during puppy classes which we had to leave as he was out of control. During walks even when the other dogs have walked away and out of sight Milo continues to pull at his harness and becomes impossible to distract or calm down.
Has anyone experienced this before and have tips? Could it be something specific to him being restrained on his lead?
We collected him at 12 weeks old, so was alone from the litter but still with his parents from 8-12 weeks- the breeder assures me he had no traumatic encounter or experience with dogs during that time.
We want our bundle of joy to interact and make friendly encounters with other dogs- I don't think that's too big an ask

p.s he is GREAT with people and children (phew).
Thanks in advance everyone x

 

[4PawsandClaws.co.uk]

This behavior is not acceptable and the issue needs to be addressed immediately. When you say you has to leave puppy classes as he was out of control what happened? Do you remember a particular incident i.e a larger dog scaring him etc? You may be able to get to the root of the issue by thinking of something that triggered this behavior but if not it just may be an accumulation of things. You need to sort this out right away whilst he is still young and it's still a pattern you can break. You are just masking the issue by keeping him away from other dogs. If hes not aggressive to other dogs I would start with the training classes again, if you really cannot go back then you need the help of a dog behaviorist immediately. I'm sure there are people on here who can help point you in the right direction. I don't want to scare you but all too often a problem likes this gets bigger and bigger until it turns into aggression and the dog ends up in a dogs home, scared and with a problem that will prevent him finding a new home. The good news is that he has committed owners and he has youth on his side which generally means any unwanted behavior is easier to curb. No it's not a lot to ask from your dog to be happy and safe around other dogs, it will make your lives much more enjoyable also when you don't have these issues to worry about. Let us know how you get on.

 

[gypsysmum2]

Staying with his breeder until he was 12 weeks is not a good start. He needed to be out and about seeing the world and learning that other dogs are safe to be around during this critical phase of his life. You are now playing catch up with his socialisation. He is finding other dogs very scary and you need to change that. He is not being naughty.

Try to find a good training class where he can be slowly integrated at his own pace. Try to find safe places where he can watch other dogs from a distance so that fear does not kick in and prevent learning. Do not force him. Allow him to retreat if he wants to.

A behaviourist from either COAPE or APBC would be a good investment for the rest of his life.

 

[SCheung]

Thanks 4PAWS.....We left the class as it was not a socialisation class but rather a class to teach them commands etc. - Milo was too hyper to calm down and as such we were not getting anything out of the class and the trainer had to focus on the other dogs...she built a little corner for Milo but we he already knows how to sit, down and wait and so we were achieving nothing from the class (we decided to leave as the class moved on to walking inbetween each other, crossing over leads etc- somethin Milo couldn't take part in),

When he has been in a room with other dogs- yes he barks and barks but he does calm down- tail always wagging and he is just simply very excited and being a typical puppy. The class we went to didn't have any socialisation time before knuckling down to training and so there was no chance of Milo calming if he wasn't getting any time to interact, play and then perhaps chill out a bit. We appreciated as well the other owners are in no position to voluntarily offer their quiet pups to us so that Milo can bark and jump all over!

We do have a puppy social class next Saturday which is purely for interaction and play- we shall see how that goes.

I'm struggling to know if it is fear or something else- as I say he has 4 and played with 4 different dogs in an enclosed environment and he was fine (yes he still barked and was hyper but he was clearly concentrating on just play).

I have made the first steps in speaking to an Edinburgh based behaviour training company, who seem nothing but lovely and the testimonials are no less that 5 stars so fingers crossed we can address this quickly and effectively.

Gypysmum2- Thanks also for your advice. He did stay at the breeders for longer but he also met a family dog and others passing by during his walks- he wasn't kept in the breeder area until we got him- the breeders looked after him as though he were their own and he had fantastic interaction with their young son which I think could be a big help behind him loving children! He also had his 2nd injections just before I collected him around 12 weeks as normal and so before this time wouldn't have been able to meet other dogs as he wasn't fully vaccinated.

The funny thing is he will bark at dogs who are miles off and he is definitely wanting to go towards them, and not retreat back!

 

[gypsysmum2]

It could be frustration that is causing his behaviour. He wants to get to the other dog but can't? In this case he needs to learn impulse control. It sounds as if the class he was going to was a good one using modern methods. It may be that you have to persevere.

Hopefully the behaviour consultation will help. Do check out that the company are part of a governing body. Anybody can write favourable reviews. There are a lot of people using very out dated methods that harm rather than heal a problem behaviour.

The "bar open - bar closed" technique can be useful.

When you spot another dog the bar opens and you dispense lots of lovely treats one after the other. Once the other dog has passed/disappeared the bar closes. You will notice it is working when your dog turns, and looks for a treat, when he spots another dog. You can then get him to focus on you in order to get the treats. I would imagine your trainer will have showed you how to distract him like this at classes. Timing is everything is training. Catching the moment when he is quiet and rewarding it well is the best way to do it. This is all very difficult out in the world when we get very embarrassed by our dog's behaviour and resort to "control" which usually means tightening the lead. This is like lighting the blue touch paper, sending negative signals down the lead.

Shouting, too, can cause the dog to think we are joining in with his noisy behaviour.

I have a rescue dog with this behaviour problem and people think I am very anti social as I move my dog away from theirs while keeping his attention on me with lots of lovely treats. I cannot worry what they think because I am too busy training my dog to focus on me. The more often he is around other dogs, while being quiet and enjoying his treats, the more likely he is to give up the barking behaviour. It is a long journey.

 

[SCheung]

Thanks very much for taking time out to reply.

The behaviour training company is coming over to mine tonight to meet and have a chat through things and get introduced to Milo.

I imagine they will discuss a similar training method to yours- I have actually tried this but at the minute he is too focused on the dog that treats are not enticing him enough (or he gobbles in frantically and gets straight back to the treats!). Strangely enough he met another Westie for the first time since I've had him yesterday and he walk around and sniffed him first before any barking started- maybe he thought it was his mum or dad!!

Hopefully tonight is the first step towards a happy pup.

 

[JoanneF]

Good luck with your trainer. Let us know how you get on.

 

[Raven oaktree]

How did you get on with the trainer?..

I wouldn't go back to the training class if the trainer offered no help or advice while you felt he was out of control.

It sounds like fear to me ..at the moment he still has his puppy pass with other dogs but that will change shortly so it does need to be dealt with ..maybe teach a 'look at me' command whilst shovelling lots of tiny treats into his mouth ..getting him to focus on you instead of the dog . Don't force him to socialise..flooding can work but it can also stress him out and make the problem worse..do you have any bomb proof dogs,..maybe just one really calm laid back dog?..for very short sessions together?..

Would be interested to hear what your new trainer has said

 

[SCheung]

Hi Raven Oaktree- thanks your for care and interest!

So Milo had his first training session on Saturday (Trainer was away for a while as part of her PHD on Dog behaviour)- leading up to the sessions her trainer partner took Milo on two weekly walks with his calm and lovely dog which Milo loved. He is fantastic on walks with other dogs and off lead playing with them, we have no worries there and the trainers recommends so he can work on his social skills and keep having good interactions.

His issue, (which after being explained to me seems pretty obvious now!) is based around his frustrations and over excitableness to get what he wants- typical terrier hey! At the moment he builds up frustration very quickly over not getting what he wants so we are working on his focusing on us, and hoping to lead to him eventually looking to us for permission to act upon his desires.

He is great at sit, down, stay and look- but only when in a calm state and so once he gets into the big exciting world outdoors-all of this goes out the window...the trainer agrees he moves so quickly from calm to obsessed, that when he see's other dogs he switches too fast to gain back his attention 99.9% of the time and so it continues to escalate.

Many people have commented on his just being a puppy, but I've been advised that sometimes through repetition, we risk it becoming the norm and so training is a must do with Milo.

Our lovely trainer also gently told us we have a tricky first dog on our hands (though a loving one) and that his committedness to a cause (dogs, people, sounds!) is comparable to an adult dog and not the tiny 4 month old that he should be.

The light at the end of the long, far away tunnel, apparently is that with the right training and time, we should be able to switch his strong urge of committed attitude, onto things we WANT him to committ to..i.e attention on his owners and future training.

I would love to be able to hear of experiences that other people have had from similar pets- can't seem to find any though!!!!

Sarah