Puppy diarrhoea constantly

[bombolone]

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My puppy has had diarrhoea constantly since we got him. He is almost 5 months and we got him at 8 weeks.

His first poo of the day is firm-ish and all subsequent ones runny in varying degrees.

I now realise that many of my other 'problems' with the puppy could be stemming from this - e.g. night waking etc.

We had his stool tested at by the vet and everything was clear.

We have tried 4 different food brands in the hope that would help. We do not overfeed him as far as I am aware. His appetite is huge and he is very skinny. He eats EVERYTHING though e.g. in garden, twigs, soil, bark, his own poo (gross).

Not sure what to do next.

Foods we have tried:

Lily's Kitchen

Orijen

Guru

and he is now on Millie's Wolfheart Countryside (which he loves)

We err on the 'too little' side and take treats from his daily ration wherever possible.

On Millie's Wolfheart's suggestion we are about to start on a different Millie's formulation with slightly less protein (60/40 instead of 70/30).

Some have said that exercise can make puppy's poo runny and it's fine but a couple of other people have said to me that that may be true but it really isn't 'right'... Given that he is skinny and always hungry I would tend to agree with the latter. He won't be getting all the nutrients he needs.

Does anyone here have any experience of similar problems or thoughts for a resolution?

 

[PSheriff]

I am not saying it is, but it could be a protozoan parasite call GIARDIA and a common cause of diarrhoea in dogs of all ages. Young dogs, however, are especially susceptible and may develop particularly bad and persistent diarrhoea as a result of picking up this parasite. Infection is through ingesting cyst present in the faeces of other dogs., from drinking water contaminated by faecal matter, and from mutual grooming. In terms of treatment, I would suggest looking at using herbal remedies, ideally under the guidance of a veterinary herbalist. Useful herbs include Baryberry, Agrimony and Golden Seal, which can clear up the problem if used over a period of several weeks. Using a probiotic alongside the herbal remedies is also a good idea. This will restore the levels of all the good bacteria in the bowel, which should help to resolve the diarrhoea problem.

 

[bombolone]

PSheriff thank you so much for your thoughts. We had a stool test done and Giardia did not show up.....

However we changed vets and the new vet did a blood test, primarily checking for Pancreatic Insufficiency. He said the results did not point to that. However because there were abnormal white blood cell counts indicating inflammation and abnormal B12 and folate levels, he suggested he might have SIBO (Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth?), and prescribed antibiotics. I am generally anti-antibiotics if I can possibly help it but there are times when I feel they have a use. I agreed to give him antibiotics and give lots of probiotics (during and after - apparently unlike in humans, the antibiotics won't wipe out the probiotics...).

He started the antibiotics yesterday. It may be complete and utter fluke. I have not idea. And I don't want to speak too soon. But..... this morning he did a normal poo! Hallelujah! Never thought I would be so sad talking about dogs' poo...!!

Could it be that the antibiotics have worked so fast?

Whatever happens i will make sure he has probiotics for a while afterwards to repopulate his gut. HE is on a two week antibiotic dose. I also thought to give him digestive enzymes and slippery elm. What do you think?

I am ALSO hoping that if we can resolve this issue it might help with the coprophagia because my theory is that he has been eating his poo because:

a) he is starving

b) it serves as a 'natural probiotic' for him so he is driven to eat it

c) as food has been undigested, the poo is still partially food (sorry too much info!) so tastes good and he needs calories

Of course there is probably an element of the fact that it has become a habit too - so I will need to try to break that.

Fingers crossed. Do you people out there think the antibiotic success after just one day could be a fluke?

Will keep you posted in case this is helpful for others.

 

[gypsysmum2]

I think it is possible. I hope so for your sake.

If it is working then it is probably best not to give other remedies .

I also think you are spot on with all the poo eating theories.

 

[bombolone]

gysysmum2 you are such a support. Thank you so much for following my long and boring saga of newbie-puppy-ownership and providing your thoughts. It has genuinely helped me a great deal.

As I wrote on other thread, 2 nights with no poo - hallelujah! Still waking though - probably habit... Will keep you posted!

 

[gypsysmum2]

Glad to be of help

Hope you get some sleep!

 

[bombolone]

Ok so update on tummy troubles... puppy had a couple of "normal" days at beginning of antibiotic treatment but now nearly a week in and we are back to the old pattern of "normal" first thing in the morning and then diarrhoea the rest of the time especially on walks. I despair! 

Hiwever nights are better now (see other thread!) - such a relief. 

 

[Wotho]

Hi there,

What breed of puppy is he?  (Is he a GSD by any chance)?  Could I suggest adding some natural live yoghurt to his food.  It corrects the bad bacteria in the gut.  It may help and certainly worth trying.  (Make sure it is not flavoured, just simply natural and bio).

Good wishes

 

[bombolone]

He is a golden retriever x miniature poodle...  Thank you for the tip Wotho.  We tried that but sadly to no avail... Strong probiotics seem to be helping a little bit (ProKolin+).  Thankfully he is also getting better at holding it and since removing the crate (controversial!) he has not had an accident at night nor barked in the night.  Still has diarrhoea during walks though....

 

[excuseme]

Would you mind if I butt in here and suggest something quiet different and very "Smelly" yet very nutritious with pro biotic values.

I am a raw feeder and have fed many different types of raw meat to my dogs over 35 years or more. ( We never have poo problems ! )

You have obviously had tummy problems for a long while, would you be able, or prepared to try something very natural but very smelly;  Wet Green Tripe. 

You could include this  along side your Millies Wolfheart. I would suggest their 50/50 until you get things settled.

RAW GREEN TRIPE.

Raw green tripe offers beneficial bacteria and enzymes. I has a desirable Calcium; phosphorous ratio of 1.1.

Green tripe's pH is acidic, the protein is 15.1% and the fat is 11.7%. It also has the correct proportions of Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids.

One of the best constituents of raw green tripe is lactobacillus acidophilus. This is one of the intestinal bacteria that keep unwanted bacteria such as e-coli, salmonella, and listeria from overpopulating and causing health problems. A balance of micro flora in the gut is extremely important to maintaining good health. These pro biotics help keep the animals immune system in top shape .

Digestive enzymes;

The enzymes that help the ruminant digest its meal will give the pet the same benefit. Dogs and cats do not naturally produce amylase, so the nutrients present in vegetative matter are not readily available to them. Raw green tripe contains these digestive enzymes.

It contains the following vitamins and minerals along with other naturally occurring  goodness;

Vitamin E, Riboflavin, Niacin, Folate, Vitamin B12, Pantothenic, Acid, Choline, Iron, Magnesium, Potassium, Phosphorous, Sodium, Zinc, Copper, Manganese, Selenium.

If you consider this too smelly could you include a raw chicken wing each day to daily rations.

 

[Biker John]

Adding to excuseme's full explanation, although raw green tripe is smelly every dog I have fed it to absolutely loves it.

 

[bombolone]

okaaaaayyyy.  I am rather hesitant.  I don't even eat red meat myself and am very squeamish!  But I'd rather feed one item raw and continue with kibble than go fully down the raw route.  I looked up green tripe - had no idea what it was.... Yuck!  And that's without even smelling it.  How do you go about doing it?  I can see that you can buy it frozen.  Does it come in chunks that you can just defrost for the day or something?  Would l feed it WITH the kibble or as a separate snack or what?  I'm guessing that if it is mince meat I can at least isolate it to the feeding bowl and it won't be strewn around the kitchen floor?  Imagine during defrosting it stinks the house out?

It does sound incredibly nutritious and probably exactly what he needs... but gross!!  

Thank you both very much for your input, really appreciate it.

 

[bombolone]

I should add that finding something my puppy likes is not in any way a problem - to him, EVERYTHING is delicious - cardboard, wood, grass, bark, plants etc.  He would eat anything you put in front of him.  Except, rather curiously, the tops of carrots!!  Sadly this means he has to be on the lead more than I would like....  I do hope he grows out of this a bit!

 

[excuseme]

You can buy this in 1lb blocks (minced ) most good pet stores with freezers sell it. This could be thawed outside in a Tupperware type container and also feed the meal outside (the pet store frozen blocks are not as smelly as some of the "wet" tripe that you can get.) There is probably a lot of the good juices squeezed from these blocks but they are much better than nothing!

I would feed 1 whole meal of tripe at some time during the day and other feeds use your kibble, probably 1/2 block = 1/2lb

Where do you live, we have a good wet supplier near to us. 

 

[bombolone]

OK thank you very much excuseme that's really helpful.  I will look into it.  I think I would definitely prefer the less smelly frozen stuff defrosted and eaten outside!   I might give it a try.  I think our local pet shop sells it in the freezer...  It's very helpful to have a quantity guideline from you.  

 

[bombolone]

Ok update on this... rather cowardly and selfishly I have not ventured down the tripe route yet (although I will keep it as an option up my sleeve). Instead I started adding fibre to his food - you can buy it as a supplement for dogs. It has helped enormously - which surprised me as his food (admittedly still dry) is good quality. Just thought I'd post this in case anyone is in similar situation and looking for things to try. 

The only time his poos are runny (sorry too much info still!) is on a long walk after he has been about 3 times! The 4th and 5th one start to loose form... since all the others are ok I am less worried and also think that it is possibly a sign that we are over exercising him?  He goes out once for 50mins in morning and again for about half an hour in evening - he is six months and I am aware of the "five mins per month " rule but that just does not seem quite enough stimulation for him. 

I have read elsewhere that it is common for this to happen with dogs when they run a lot!

 

[JoanneF]

It's really all coming together now - brilliant news!

 

[Biker John]

As to the running, I take my Whippet to racing, on arriving I take her out of the car and we walk round the field. 90% of the time she will poo during this and its firm and well formed. However their are the odd times she doesn't, then after a run, walking back she poo's and when she does its always very soft. One other interesting bit is I notice not only my girl but most Whippets walking back after a race stop and wee, no idea why but they do.

 

[bombolone]

Thanks for this. It's very interesting (and heartening) to hear that this is common after racing/running. Thank you for pointing this out to me.