Puppy reassurance please!

[merlina]

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Like i said there are many different types of training styles out there and men is one of the many, i wouldn't continue to be a dog behaviourist/trainer if i didn't get the results and have happy clients, but every one to their own opinions i guess.

Sorry don't want to mock you but I think this maybe a Freudian slip! Most of these antiquated methods seemed to be male in origin- oh no, I've just remembered a Mrs Thatcher type called Barbara Woodhouse!

Really before you get yourself any hotter under the collar try looking for science-based up-to-date research.

 

[JoanneF]

you will look back red faced on your ignorance to other training methods

My goodness, that's a bit patronising.

My link to that journal was one example - there are many others. And I rather think the weight of modern opinion is against you, not just on this forum.

And of course 'correction' is an option in BM (and yes, I do understand operant conditioning) but it invariably takes place after the event which in effect means the dog has already erred. And if we have a dog that doesn't respond well to P+, we risk either getting a dog that shuts down because it is so afraid of doing the wrong thing that it does almost nothing; or we get a dog that rebels against it and we have to keep increasing the level. @JudyN has a nice video example, perhaps she would be kind enough to link it. It certainly is a poor way to train a puppy who hasn't learned the rules. If you applied the same techniques to children (and again, a lot of modern dog training such as functional analysis has come over from working with children, including ones with behavioural issues) you would perhaps see it differently. Instead of punishing when they get it wrong, undesirable behaviour markedly decreases when ignored or when desired behaviour is rewarded (search for articles by Iwata). In fact, undesired behaviour can even increase when P+ is used as it attracts attention, albeit not attention that is pleasant.

You have challenged our credentials, it would be interesting to hear yours.

 

[JudyN]

@JudyN has a nice video example, perhaps she would be kind enough to link it.

Do you mean this one, @JoanneF ?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154814833717001

What is scary is that the vid on the left was promoted by the trainer in the clip as evidence on how well trained his dog was. That is one seriously anxious dog but so many people, including, apparently, the trainer, can't see what he's done to the poor dog.

If you have a compliant, biddable dog, then you don't need to use aversives because +ve methods work wonders. No one works well for a 'boss' who constantly criticises them. If you have a dog who easily goes over threshold and can turn aggressive when he can't cope with his world and the stresses in it (and corrections are going to be stressful) then aversives will NOT help him respect you and think you are worth listening to and complying with. In fact these methods can be positively dangerous.