Run as weighed

[Vicky]

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This topic cropped up at our club on Wednesday night and as it's something that i dont think has been covered on k9 i thought i'd ask you lot your views (and partly because i just like the polls ).

My view is if an owner chooses to give a few yards away by jumping up a class then let them, but i also see it from a more personal point in that i run a 30lb bitch who's weight class is pretty crappy when it comes to quantity of dogs (don't get me wrong the quality is top class at times). We only managed a handful of opens last year but apart from 2 champs every run was a solo!! After winning a solo you feel obliged to run off in the final (this at yd'lb) because so far you've only had a solo, even though you know you don't stand a chance at this format (don't all jump on me for slating the format because that's not what the thread is about). So why shouldn't dogs of 32lb & under (example) not be allowed to run in 36lb scratches - ok they might not win but at least they get a run in company, and if the said dog does win then the 36lber's didn't deserve to win anyway - or can you argue otherwise???

Also how do the majority of dogs in the 36lb scratch go on when they weigh in the handicap of NWRF events & like, which is 35lb, when they have to give yards to the lighter dogs who have beat them in scratch races?

This should get the non-ped racers talking!!!

 

[kipper fluke]

Whilst agreeing that it is not much fun having solo races, with the top ten points system in place, not running as weighed would open the doors to more abuse than it is at present. You only need to look back at some of the 40lb /No limit last year to see certain dogs switching from one class to the other just to gain points and not running against the dogs that might beat them, instead opting for the easy option. This also happens in the other weights, mainly bigger dogs. If you have a small dog you have to run as weighed. There has to be a level playing field with the rules applying to all those who are taking part.

 

[JoJess]

Run as weighed means just that, it is not the owners fault if there are no other dogs in that weight group and your dog has to solo...... ??? I vote yes......

 

[whippet one]

i think it is up to the owner if they want to up there dog i have been saying all this year i would like to run 36lb but to run bwra i will have to put 1 half pound on my dogso i can get her over 32lb so i can run .when i think i stand a better chance at running off levels even on she is only 31lb

 

[Vicky]

Run as weighed means just that, it is not the owners fault if there are no other dogs in that weight group and your dog has to solo......

No dig at you pat - People trying to prove that their dog is half decent by running in a different class (heavier/faster dogs) where they know they will have opposition as oppose to picking up top ten points from having a solo - can you blame them for that?

I wasn't looking at it from the point of people jumping classes to get in a class with fewer dogs (this is totally the opposite of what i was saying) but yeh i agree with what you are saying on that account - these people are just cheating themselves.

If you have a small dog you have to run as weighed

This doesn't stop people putting weight on or taking off to avoid certain dogs though.

 

[michelle]

I`m with Vicky on this in that I feel that there is no good reason not to allow lighter dogs to run in scratch races. If I was running a 36lb dog in tthe sratch and got beat by a handicap weight dog or was running no limit and got beat by a 40lb ( or worse a 36lb) dog I`d keep quite about it rather than moan and try to eliminate the opposistion by claiming run and weigh is fairer.

Historicaly the BWRA was not run as weigh and so even in the handicap you could if you wish run in whatever weight class you wished as long as your dog was under the MAXIMIUM weight limit for that race . Handicap racers rarely do this for the obvious reason that the lighter dogs are usually slower.

Its very easy, even with run as weigh, to move a scratch dog around weights. A lot of 40lb scratch dogs rest weight is over 40lb anyway so puting them in the no limit is easy. Similarly 36lb and 31/32lb dogs rest heavier than they race so moving up a weight is a doddle. Hence the introduction of run as weigh in the scratch won`t have the desired effect of eliminating the competition as it seems some racers want. I think its a bit sad that the owners of racers are against competition from lighter, and so supposedly slower, whippets

We have always moved our dogs around weight classes to have vareity or avoid solos.

Tony

 

[kipper fluke]

People who have no limit dogs only can run in one class so why is it ok for others to have a choice ,you either are a no limit dog or not!and as far as putting weight on and taking weight off a dog that is race fit is asking for trouble as there is such a thing as an ideal racing weight where you have to be in order to attain maximum performance you can not put a sack of coal on a runners back and expect him to sprint a hundred yards .As for variety,surely being in the appropriate class is preferable in order to maintain the higher standard of racing which i assume we are all aiming for.

 

[Fleesh]

Hmmmmmm Can't really vote here ... It seems to me that dogs shoud run as weighed except in one condition. That being that if and only if a weight class consists of a solo run then the owner may have the choice of whether to move up to the next weight group or not. If that dog wins the next weight group up then nobody in that class in my opinion can camplain as they have the advantage on the lighter dog by starting off with an extra yard on it (technically speaking). However a weight class has more than one dog in then the dogs should run as weighed. As for putting on and taking off weight to suit the owners preferred class, well on their own head be it. My dog only ever ran twice underweight and quite by accident but I vow never again as she didn't fare well at all (but then that's my dog and my own view).

 

[Vicky]

Hmmmmmm Can't really vote here ... It seems to me that dogs shoud run as weighed except in one condition. That being that if and only if a weight class consists of a solo run then the owner may have the choice of whether to move up to the next weight group or not. If that dog wins the next weight group up then nobody in that class in my opinion can camplain as they have the advantage on the lighter dog by starting off with an extra yard on it

That might not be a bad idea Fleesh!!

 

[Fleesh]

I'm full of 'em Vicky

 

[Fleesh]

[SIZE=21pt]POP!!![/SIZE]

Oh dear was that my head exploding there ??? :b

 

[michelle]

Steve

You can`t seriously suggest that just because the No limit dogs are obliged by the nature of the class to only be able to run against their peers then all other whippets should be forced to run against dogs of the same weight only and not be allowed to change weight groups. Just why is it not Ok for the other 95% of whippets who are not No limit to change weight groups as their owners see fit. Why change the rules for the majority just to please a minority. If you don`t want to run only No Limit don`t buy a No Limit dog.

As far as an ideal weight for racing is concerened I`d say it`s pretty much common knowledge among racers that the ideal racing weight is the lowest weight the dog can run without losing performance - which is likely to be lower than the optimium weight for maximium performance. Gaining a yard at the start is more effective than gaining half a yard at the finish.

Putting half a pound on a scratch dog is in no way comparable with running the hundred meters with a sack af coal - that`s just being silly.

If a dog weighs 40 1/2 pounds then its no limit and the correct class is No Limit. If a dog weighs 40lbs its in the 40lb scratch and that its correct class. If a dog weighing 40lb runs No Limit and wins Iwould say that it was raising the standard of that race.

Tony

 

[mutley]

if a 36 pound dog cant run in 40 pound race or 40 pound in no limit race why have supreme scratch ??? i remember a good dog named little geordie fame ,31 32 pound racing 36 40 and winning most races , if people think their dogs are good enough to forfit a pound or so then why not, especialy scratch racers, although i do agree with steve some abuse it whene runing for points, but what if you have a right hand runner at 20 or 25 pound, is their anything wrong with lifting a pound to to get right hand side in the class above to avoid any collisions in your race ??? ihad a bitch smurfette 34 pound race at 36 but now and then go in 40 if she had a solo in 36 . good and bad on both sides of the coin ,i think it should be up to the owners as long as the dogs dont come to any harm

 

[kipper fluke]

In reply to those wanting to run smaller dogs with the bigger ones what short memorys you have its not long since you were on about 16lb dogs being hit by 32lb dogs at the finish i rest my case !!!!

 

[michelle]

A 16lb is much slower than a 32lb and in handicap gets a start - usually more of a start than would produce an even finish, hence the 16lb dog has finished the race and stopped while the 32lb dog is arriving , flat out , at the lure, - a recipe for an accident. You cant compare this with running lighter dogs in scratch races since in scratch races they all start level and all dogs are running at roughly the same speed and so all arrive at the lure together - there is no speed differential to cause the problem of one dog running into a stationary dog at the lure. The comparison is not really valid as its just not the same thing.

 

[kipper fluke]

sorry but i can compare this as do many others who have been racing for many years rhe idea is to go foward not backwards and put saftey first

 

[NEILPEM]

hi debbie here, can i just say how infuriated i am to keep reading about people knocking no limit dogs eg "the minority". We are NOT a minority as if you look at meetings you will find "95%" of the time that the big uns have more in their class than "the smaller dogs" im sorry but these comments really annoy me. As for run as weighed i think yes you should or everybody would be swopping and changing and it would be no good for your dogs. Once again please stop making digs at the no limit they deserve to run just like the smaller ones, because lets face it all the smaller dogs have got greyhound in them somewhere or they would all be pedigrees, is this not so? ???

 

[Vicky]

We are NOT a minority

So did the No Limit's make up the Majority of the racing at the Derby? I dont think Tony's knocking them just saying there is more handicap dogs that No Limits! Anyone with a No Limit knows they will (most of the time) be running against competition, and good on them too, if they win they know they've won against another dog rather than won a solo, which is what i was trying to get at.

sorry but i can compare this

Your using a 16lber running off scratch with a 32lber as an example?

A 16lber running against a 32lber off scratch would get injured? How? the 16lber would trail in a big distance behind, like has already been said it's not really a valid example.

I think Mutley has grasped what we're trying to get at!

 

[JoJess]

having not had scratch dogs in the past i can't comment on the scratch races , but i think when run as weighed is stated then we have to run our dogs as that ??? ,i really dont think it is fare to the other people who have dogs say "No limit" and then have to race with another dog out of a different weight group , especially if that dog is faster than the dogs in the upper weight group and this can happen if you start letting dogs in the higher groups do this it will spread to people running their dogs in the lower groups, :angry: put some weight on your dogs if you want to go in a higher group but as steve boyd has already stated this does not mean your dog will benifit from this. so "RUN AS WEIGHED" is my motto GOOD LUCK TO ALL IN 2003 this smiley looks like some on in whippet newshe always smiles like this, can you guess who it is ?????

 

[michelle]

Debbie,

I`m not knocking No Limit dogs or races - we have run No Limit often enough, and I prefer to race off scratch in preference to yard per pound, but numericaly No limit dogs are a minority in that they are the only ones not able to run in different classes. Typicaly they make up 5% of the program and as such are a minority of the total number of dogs present. It has nothing to do with the number of dogs in the class or how they are bred.

Run as weigh won`t stop owners choosing their dogs weight class since changing the dogs weight is not difficult.

Mutley makes an interesting point - why have run as weigh for the scratch to stop lighter dogs running with heavier ones, then run a supreme scratch, off level marks which obviously means running different weights together which contadicts the point of run as weigh in the weight group races.

Tony