Showing Champions

[aslan]

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Cartman, I don't feel guilty at all but i'm just wondering where I fit in there. I think there might be another category ... people who show a lot simply because they LOVE it.

 

[Cartman]

Cartman, I don't feel guilty at all but i'm just wondering where I fit in there.  I think there might be another category ... people who show a lot simply because they LOVE it.

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g. love of the game. At the end of the day showing is the winner.

Worth a thought.

 

[kris]

i havent shown for some years now but when i did show it was to test the quality of the dogs id bred against the quality of dogs other people had bred.to see if in a judges opinion mine were inferior or superior.i loved the social side of showing too.when i used a dog at stud,i didnt give two hoots what hed won.first of all i looked at his breeding.this to me was the most important feature of any dog,i always tried to linebreed and every few generations id do an outcross to bring in fresh blood,bit like they do with thoroughbred horses.secondly id look at his pups,a broad spectrum across different bloodlines if poss to see if he was stamping his type on them.thirdly id look at his parents/grandparents.(most of which id know anyway)and lastly id see what his pups were doing in the ring.i asked to use a dog at stud years ago,that was a young dog,unproven (the owner was pleased id asked as noone else had)wasnt doing much in the ring but id seen his breeding and knew his mum an dad and the lines behind him.he not only became a champion but also became the top stud in the breed.he stamped his type on virtually everything brought to him.even total outcrosses.(the owner always remembered me having faith in him when noone else did) :thumbsup:

 

[bertie]

Well I think I'll put my hat in the ring!! (w00t)

I agree with Dawns point of view as regards the way it is now is fine and I dont think we should alter things to make CC easier.

After all, these high quality dogs come and go over the years, it also makes a difference what is about in the ring at the time they start winning.

I would think that I am right is stating the point that it is an unwritten rule that you would not chase a CC from a Judge that has awrded you a CC in the past, not the case with RCC.

So lets take Nutshell of Nevedith 47 CC from 47 Judges that is some record of achievment in any breed let alone a breed a strong as whippets.

Did people get sick?

Well that would depend which camp you had your PowWow.

 

[Avalonia]

I would think that I am right is stating the point that it is an unwritten rule that you would not chase a CC from a Judge that has awrded you a CC in the past, not the case with RCC.

I've attended/exhibited at shows in Canada, the USA, England and within Europe, and I must say that the unwritten rule that Bertie refers to is something I find highly commendable. Over here, especially in America where winning is everything -- or should I say apparently the only thing in some people's lives -- people spend an absolute fortune campaigning dogs and do so by shopping their favourite judges like you or I would buy our favourite cut of meat at the supermarket or drink at the pub.

Top dogs are flown around the country to be exhibited in the best of breed competition in the hopes of winning the breed, the group or best in show under judges who have put the dog up repeatedly in the past, sometimes a dozen times or more over the course of the dog's show career.

By doing so they vastly improve their chances of building up the points to make the dog they are exhibiting top dog of its breed/group or in the country. Thus an exhibitor may be in Pennsylvania on Friday, then on a plane right after the show to Florida for a Saturday show, and on to somewhere else for a Sunday show to be in the show ring of judges who have awarded them and their dog in the past.

This is done across all breeds by the top handlers/exhibitors and I find it absolutely sickening. I am not sure what is worse -- the connaivance on the part of the exhibitors and financial supporters of "top" dogs to do this -- they all do it, or the fact that the judges -- many of them top names in international dogdom -- allow this to happen and go along with putting the same dog up all season as the exhibitor chases them around the country in million dollar motor homes and via aircraft, besmirching anything that might have been left of their reputation in the process. Occasionally judges finally have had enough and put someone else up, usually resulting in a huge hissy fit on the part of the exhibitor who may have spent a fortune getting to that show, and that judge looking for the expected reward, but it doesn't happen near enough and the judges who are victimized by this sort of tactic are sure not doing much to take back their territory from the shopping exhibitors.

A sense of fair play -- such as was the case for Nutshell, where every CC was from a different judge -- would sure be a refreshing change in America, but of course it will never, ever happen... at least not before elephants sprout wings and fly.

Lanny

Avalonia Whippets in Canada

 

[JAX]

Lanny , where do these exhibitors/handlers/ owners get there money from ?? (w00t)

What I really feel sorry for is the poor dogs who are dragged from one show to another , what sort of life must they be leading :rant: . I suppose they go from one caged area to another :rant: . poor animlas :angry:

 

[kris]

i think its more big business in the states rather than a hobby like it is here.theres mega bucks involved over there.from what i know the pro handlers run the shows over there an can make or break a judge,by either exhibiting or not under them.if they are boycotted by all the pro handlers then no society is going to ask them to judge again.theres so few dogs owner handled cos the pro handlers are known by the judges and are usually in the line up for the ribbons.i too feel sorry for the dogs,being flown thousands of miles in a year,they must get fed up with it all.but in the pursuit of that blue ribbon the dogs feelings and comfort is way down on the list

 

[quintessence]

There have been a series of articles over the past three weeks in Dog World by Rebecca Agronius who is spending a period of time in America with Peter Green's kennel. It's certainly provided an insight into how things work in the States, it's all a bit frantic for me, I have trouble remembering all my bits just to go to ringcraft.!

Jenny

 

[dolly]

After visiting Westminster show last year (in between shopping in New York) I would hate to have a dog to show there. Crates pilled high (field officers dream) .

Most dogs seem to spend the duration of the show there, very little room, and a very small ring to show your dog.!!!

 

[Avalonia]

Jax asked where the money to do this comes from. At American Kennel Club shows professional handlers rule the rings. That they have been able to do so is largely assisted by the fact that many extremely monied Americans are prepared to pay almost anything to give them bragging rights for "owning" the top whippet, top poodle, top anything. I have never been able to figure out how your life is enriched by vicariously living your life through a dog, but for a lot of people this appears to be very important. It certainly speaks to the American sense of competitiveness and the desire to be on top in some area of their lives.

What normally happens is this. Let's say I am a whippet breeder and I introduce a new young dog into the rings. I may show it myself, or I may employ a professional handler to take it out for me because I cannot get to enough shows in my area to give my dog a reasonable chance at getting an American championship (much much more easy to do than a UK championship because there are at least a thousand championship shows in the US each year to get the points to do so). People see my dog and say, holy smoke what a wonderful whippet, you should "special" it. Specialing it ultimately means you are competiting to place your dog of whatever breed into the top 20 or the top 10 or even higher of all the dogs of that breed being shown in America.

A special is a dog that has finished its championship title so now it doesn't have to go up against class dogs in the regular classes, but can be exhibited in the "specials" -- champions class. Judges being what they are, in America they tend to put up more specials than dogs out of the classes-- dogs that have proven their quality, they would say -- by already being a champion. This is especially true in the bigger shows.

Maybe I am independently wealthy and have the money and can afford to take my dog all over America to show by myself, but the odds are I am a working stiff and money doesn't come easy so I need someone to finance my dogs campaign to the top.

Most professional handlers have at least one extremely wealthy client who is interested in backing dogs for the prestige of "owning" a top dog and perhaps having it take the ultimate prize in America, best in show at Westminster. These very wealthy clients keep the handlers in business because they may have the handler showing a half dozen dogs of different breeds for them over the course of a year. If you ever watched Westminster Kennel Club shows you may recall hearing the name and seeing the camera pan over one or another of these wealthy owner/backers of dogs. Their support ensures that the sport has in fact become a business.

In the case of my theoretical whippet the handler I sent it out with talked up the dog with their wealthy client who has been looking for another dog of a different breed to back. They see potential in my whippet and so agree to back it. In return for that backing I may place the dog outright in the backer's name as registered owner, or continue to co-own the dog with the backer, or even a consortium of backers. We now have enough money to show the dog anywhere, anytime because whatever the bill, the backer will pay it. Some backed dogs cost $100,000 a year to keep on the circuit. When a dog goes beyond being a top 20 or a top 10 dog and becomes one of the top three of its breed then the campaigning becomes really frenetic and that is when top dogs are whizzed around the country for the "right" judges.

By the time dogs go to Westminster everyone knows which dogs have been top dog in their breed for the previous year. If the judge in the breed is good for one of those top dogs it has a very good chance of going on to best of breed in this champions only show. And if the group judge is also known to be good for a specific dog then it has a 1 in 7 shot at best in show. And that is how it goes in America.

Lanny

Avalonia Whippets, Canada

 

[JAX]

Thanks for that , Lanny :huggles:

I think ill stay over here ( on no !! I hear you lot say ) Please say it will NEVER get like that over here . :luck:

We dont have too many profressional handlers in the UK and NONE in Whippets ( as far as I know 8) ), Although many years ago a well known proffesional handler did start to show a whippet , but when they didnt win anything with it , :b they tried to make out we were an unfriendly bunch ............ (w00t) as if . And we all know thats not true , is it o

I think they thought they would /should automatically win .

Its reminded me of many years ago I stewarded for Fox terriers at a Champ show and the other steward said I had to wait for any professional handlers that were busy in other rings :blink: ( Fox terriers have many prof handlers, for those that dont know :wacko: )

Anyhow I said `if they arnt there when I call the class , we wait the given time and then the judge starts to judge ` Its up to them to be here , not for us to hold up the judging` , The judge agreed with me ( phew!) .

Bossy boots arnt I :teehee: :lol:

and do you know what ? Not one missed their class :- "

 

[*Lesley*]

hurray!at last a reply.i thought either noones interested or theyre too scared to voice their opinions! :- " thanks jax! :thumbsup:

Just read this I would have replied if i'd had a clue what you were on about :lol: :clown:

 

[Zephyr]

Thank you to Lanny for explaining the American system in detail.

God I am so glad it is not like that over here - in whippets anyway. As Jax says, here it is for most people just a hobby, not big business where the poor dogs must suffer terribly being carted all over the place - so very stressful - I can hardly bear to think of what some of them go through.

Here, for most people, the dogs welfare comes first - long may it continue. :thumbsup:

 

[kris]

never mind les!maybe one day youll have a champion then youll be able to reply!fingers crossed hun! :thumbsup: :luck:

 

[aslan]

And that is how it goes in America.

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And that's how it is starting to go in Australia too. Not so much with financial backers but owners who have money, have good dogs , and can chase judges wherever and whenever they like.

Does make it difficult for the little people.

But if I had money I reckon I'd fly off to a show every now and again too. Not necessarily chasing judges ( because somehow that has never seemed to work for me :blink: ) but just to get to those big shows and even some of the little ones more often. And to be able to visit my friends in other parts of the country. it would be great to say to my friends in say, Mudgee, "Hey I'll fly down next month and do the Mudgee show while I'm there" and then the next month fly down to Brisbane and do some shows around there with Gajo and crew.

 

[gajo]

I've done 2 shows in 3 months Lana- 1 was a royal, and the other was up your way. Hasn't been too much down here to excite me much (w00t) . You're always welcome though. Good to hear that little mon ) eybags has settled in well

 

[aslan]

Well I would just have to pick a weekend when you were showing wouldn't I?

2 shows in 3 months? Not enough for me, do you have something else to throw your money at ... oh that's right little Gajos! (w00t)