So concerned we can't cope with 12 week puppy

[Sparkle123]

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We are having real difficulties with puppy, that is making me very concerned as to whether we can continue. We have had him 5/6 days.
We didn't get him till he was 11 weeks, unlike 8 weeks, due to situations beyond our control. The other puppies, apart from one that the breeder decided to keep with Mum, had gone.
The breeder was using piddle pads in the house and in the day time, a door flap for them to go out. It made a difference in those 3 weeks.
As a result, pup can not adjust to the fact that outside is where to go and not inside. We can be outside with him for even up to an hour and he will not go, come indoors and toilet. Number one and two.
He does go sometimes but it seems more through happy 'accident' than on purpose. We do everything you are meant to do such as praise and him a treat him after going but he will still go indoors. We go out with him all the time, throughout the day. After meals, play, sleep, training, every 20 mins.
We are totally exhausted. I am writing this at just after 4am. It has all made me so anxious, I slept downstairs but woke up to let him out (He has a crate upstairs as well as downstairs, he was upstairs with partner in crate). But I was too late, he'd already weed in his crate and did nothing when I took him outside. He was put in his crate after midnight .My partner didn't wake up if he did make a noise because of being so exhausted.
We have such problems with toilet training and being totally tired. Pup is then up early at about 6am.
Also he has periods of high energy/zoomies. First thing in the morning at 6am and also after tea in evening. The morning is the hardest. He doesn't allow me any time to even go to the toilet because he is racing around and getting into everything. House is puppy proofed but you can't leave him for a second to even get a cup of tea. This can last an hour or two. And an hour or two in the evening. You basically cry with frustration and exhaustion.
There isn't time to do anything else because we are so tired and my partner has to go back to work on Thursday, so it will be just me. He needs to be able to sleep to be able to work.
I am worried that we can't continue like this. I did loads of research and prep. I knew how hard it could be, but not like this. We wouldn't have had him if we'd known it would be as bad as this.
I have tried to follow all advice you can find, nothing has helped. And outside, I even got an extra playpen and turf as we have no grass but pebbles/stones, and still he doesn't learn. We have spent a fortune to help him. All advice feels like words, if you understand, that doesn't make a difference.
I feel ashamed to feel we can't cope with this and have considered rehoming him, and that would be totally distressing.

 

[CloW]

Hey, fellow puppy Mum here. Mine woke at 3 and I couldnt get back to sleep.

So night time set an alarm every 2-3 hours so you take him out BEFORE he wakes if him waking isn't waking you up ..

In a morning take him out to toilet. If he doesn't go pop him back in his crate whilst you make your cup of tea.. then take him back out for 10 minutes. If he doesn't go back in his crate and repeat. As soon as he does go have some play time with him...

I'm guessing you're crate training him properly not just popping him in and expecting him to be settled in there? If you do it properly you can use the crate to your advantage and he'll be happy to be in there. So you can have some peace during the day. Enforced naps are a must when they are little.

Puppies are a Lot of work. Get yourself an enzyme cleaner for any accidents.. I just told myself there would probably be a year of cleaning up pee and two years of pulling my hair out. We went to some puppy classes when he was younger and that helped a lot with bonding and training not just him but us .

Sounds like you're shattered and have the puppy blues. Don't give up though! Just keep working with him. If what you're doing isn't working then you just need to tweak things. He'll click on eventually with the outside thing. Mines 6 months now and he asks to go out but that's a new thing any accidents were on me.. you haven't had him long enough to know when he'll need to go but basically it was very often if he was awake. In the middle of play take him out.. after food...after sleep...after training...Also use a pad to clean up any pee and put it outside so he can smell it out there...

Good luck don't give up they just need to learn. X

 

[Sparkle123]

Hey, fellow puppy Mum here. Mine woke at 3 and I couldnt get back to sleep.

So night time set an alarm every 2-3 hours so you take him out BEFORE he wakes if him waking isn't waking you up ..

In a morning take him out to toilet. If he doesn't go pop him back in his crate whilst you make your cup of tea.. then take him back out for 10 minutes. If he doesn't go back in his crate and repeat. As soon as he does go have some play time with him...

I'm guessing you're crate training him properly not just popping him in and expecting him to be settled in there? If you do it properly you can use the crate to your advantage and he'll be happy to be in there. So you can have some peace during the day. Enforced naps are a must when they are little.

Puppies are a Lot of work. Get yourself an enzyme cleaner for any accidents.. I just told myself there would probably be a year of cleaning up pee and two years of pulling my hair out. We went to some puppy classes when he was younger and that helped a lot with bonding and training not just him but us .

Sounds like you're shattered and have the puppy blues. Don't give up though! Just keep working with him. If what you're doing isn't working then you just need to tweak things. He'll click on eventually with the outside thing. Mines 6 months now and he asks to go out but that's a new thing any accidents were on me.. you haven't had him long enough to know when he'll need to go but basically it was very often if he was awake. In the middle of play take him out.. after food...after sleep...after training...Also use a pad to clean up any pee and put it outside so he can smell it out there...

Good luck don't give up they just need to learn. X

Hi there

Thank you so much for your reply.
Yes I had read about setting an alarm. I think last night was because I wasn't upstairs, as I just wake up as a light sleeper. Though every 2-3 hours at night will lead to bad sleep deprivation!
He is crate trained but doesn't enjoy being put in there for peace. In the day time, he sleeps where he feels the need to, and sometimes that is the crate.
He never goes in the same place twice in the house. Just all over the place! So it isn't related to smell.
We have organised for puppy classes.
I had a Springer from a rescue centre who was six months when I got him, used to only being outside but he was basically toilet trained and also didn't wake at all during the night at six months.
We do take ours out all the time, after all the right times.
My OH is the most patient man I have known in my life. He is much better than me as I suffer from anxiety and complex trauma and other things. But even he (and this is saying something) says it is like being hit by a tsunami and it is all too much.
I can't do anything else, and all things I was doing are just being let slide, which is a real shame as it isn't much of a life.
I am worried we are going to get ill with all this, to be honest.

 

[JoanneF]

@sparkle4ever it sounds like the breeder set him up badly, puppy pads give mixed messages about whether indoor toileting is acceptable or not; and a doggy door blurs the distinction between indoors and outdoors. Not your fault of course, but it might help you understand why it's going so slowly.

I'll attach our link to toilet training, but one thing you said stood out to me - you reward him after he has gone outside. It may be the way you wrote it, but the reward needs to be immediately when he has toileted, to be clear it's for toileting and not for anything else.

House training

I'm posting this as part of a series of helpful articles for common problems. If you have more information to add (or disagree with anything in this post) please do so in this thread, but if you have a specific question relating to your dog, please start a new thread. How do I toilet train...

dogforum.co.uk

Also, it's only been a few days - it will take a little time to get into a routine. Can you sleep with one of you with him, the other upstairs to get a good sleep so at least one of you gets a good sleep at a time?

For the zoomies, these often happen when the puppy is overtired. Puppies fight sleep like toddlers, and don't realise they need sleep. So try to make sure he gets plenty of naps.

I'll just add that if you do feel the need to rehome him (by the way, the breeder should be your first port of call, breeders remain responsible for the lives they create for the whole of the dogs' lives) there's,no shame in that. But puppy blues are a real thing, and if you can get through the next few weeks you will have a loving companion for many years.

You may also find this piece helpful - Your new puppy: the first few nights

 

[CloW]

You say every 2&3 hours would mean sleep deprivation... You are already sleep deprived AND having to clean mess up all the time.. unfortunately when a puppy needs to toilet they need to toilet and when they're young that is often.. it won't be forever but it is what they need..

Try crate training and using it to then help with toileting. You haven't tried that yet and trust me it prevents the accidents because naturally they don't pee where they sleep. Once you get into a routine then the pup will be happier. It's only been a few days you need to give this puppy a chance.

 

[JoanneF]

Try crate training and using it to then help with toileting. You haven't tried that yet and trust me it prevents the accidents because naturally they don't pee where they sleep.

Crate training can certainly help with toilet training for that reason - but it's not a silver bullet. If a puppy needs to toilet, he needs to toilet (and usually, needs RIGHT NOW). So when he is in the crate, if he is unable to hold it, he will have no choice but to do it there.

But that said, I do think it's a good idea to crate train because at some stage in their lives most dogs will need to be in a crate for at least a short period, for example after vet treatment.

We have an excellent guide here -

Crate Training, by Emma Judson

I'm posting this as part of a series of helpful articles for common problems. If you have more information to add (or disagree with anything in this post) please do so in this thread, but if you have a specific question relating to your dog, please start a new thread. This article is written by...

dogforum.co.uk

 

[Sparkle123]

Ooh, hang on, I think I am clear to go!

 

[Sparkle123]

I wanted to say thank you very much for these links, they are really helpful. Our pup (he is called Barley) has his last injection today and we explained to the vet how we feel and she wasn't at all surprised. She said that crating him when he is over exuberant is fine (which we are doing) and that it will get better, as he adjusts. I think it can be pretty overwhelming when you are just so tired and don't have a minute to yourself, as I am sure you empathise with.
I wanted to say to cloW that we do do crate training. And yes, sleep deprivation is a thing but we are now also in touch with a puppy trainer who is helping with ideas for retraining him with toileting after what the breeder did. But she also said to not set an alarm for when to take him out at night but to be guided by him for when he wants to go, because it could be later than we are thinking and anticipating. Take him out, hopefully he will go, put him back in the crate, etc. I sleep very lightly so I don't need an alarm.

 

[JoanneF]

You will likely find it a lot easier when you can walk him.

But meantime, please do take him out tucked into a jacket so he can start to see, hear and smell all the things hat are out there. You have a fairly short window now to getmth best period or socialising him, the brain physiology changes at around 16 weeks and new experiences are more challenging to assimilate after that.

Socialising your puppy

I'm posting this as part of a set of helpful 'easy reference' articles for common questions and problems. Feel free to add additional info on socialisation in this thread, but please start a new thread for specific questions relating to your dog. The socialisation window The period when you...

dogforum.co.uk

 

[JudyN]

Hang on in there - it really is common to struggle at first with a new pup. I remember thinking that puppies were more work than babies, because at least babies stay where you put them and toilet in their nappies!

Sleep deprivation is a killer, but you can survive it. Parents of human babies can feel like zombies for weeks or months, and if they don't need to go out often end up in their dressing gowns all day. What I'm saying is, embrace the chaos and upheaval for now. And if, in a few weeks, you're still really struggling, it isn't the end of the world if you do have to rehome Barley, and also isn't something you should feel guilty about. But we can help you out all the way

 

[Sparkle123]

For Joanne; we have been able to walk him since we have had him. He had his second vaccination at 10 weeks. And we are socialising him as best as we can, in this limited time. He is very nervous of people and dogs. Not of traffic or anything else. We are doing what we can to build his confidence with the world.
For Judy; I do think that a pup is harder than a baby . I think the real struggle is that despite puppy proofing everything, you just can't puppy proof everything ;-) So he still manages to do things he shouldn't, bite the skirting board, disappear underneath something and things like that. The vet said to enforce naps in the crate but the problem here is that though he ordinarily loves his crate, he doesn't like it when he is put into it because he is having zoomies or is over excited. Then he cries, whines and tries to get out, but if you let him out, he goes mental and you get stressed and the cycle continues. I think sometimes, despite all the best advice in the world, that is scientifically supported, you can only do the best you can and live on hope! And hope you haven't inadvertently traumatised your pup!
And with sleep deprivation, I think the problem here is that then you have no energy to train him (or even the inclination to). I suffered extreme insomnia due to sleep deprivation after losing our last dog and was really unwell. So I don't want to revisit that.
But we are trying our best. I am having to let go of things I did before and just living day to day.
Thank you so much for all of your support

 

[JudyN]

I really don't think that 'enforced naps' will be helpful - as you've seen, it can just teach him to fear his crate. It's better, IMO, to let him zoom when he needs to, but reward calm times (say, a gentle 'good settle' and a treat when he's on his bed, quiet on the sofa, or in his crate). You want him to learn to relax, and he can't do that if he's upset about being in his crate. 'Formal' training can take a back seat right now - just concentrate on encouraging the good, and preventing the unwanted (as far as possible - you can't put the skirting boards out of reach). But most important - looking after yourself, whatever it takes. Good luck!

 

[Sparkle123]

I really don't think that 'enforced naps' will be helpful - as you've seen, it can just teach him to fear his crate. It's better, IMO, to let him zoom when he needs to, but reward calm times (say, a gentle 'good settle' and a treat when he's on his bed, quiet on the sofa, or in his crate). You want him to learn to relax, and he can't do that if he's upset about being in his crate. 'Formal' training can take a back seat right now - just concentrate on encouraging the good, and preventing the unwanted (as far as possible - you can't put the skirting boards out of reach). But most important - looking after yourself, whatever it takes. Good luck!

I have really thought about this, with the crate. With 'enforced naps' or trying to settle him in the crate. And I get the negative association with the crate. But you can't just let him zoom when he needs to, he could harm himself and you wouldn't get a single moments peace...at all. It is a total nightmare and I find it incredibly upsetting. Because I have no choice but to crate him when he gets out of hand and he gets desperately upset and the noise he makes kill me. He can't bear to be apart from my partner but he has to be. He literally has to be. And also, reinforcing calm moments just doesn't work with him. What happens is that if you praise him or drop a treat on the mat when he is quiet, this just excites him, it doesn't reinforce his calmness at all.
I am at my wits end, I have to put him in the crate because if I didn't, life would be more hell than what it is now.
Maybe we will have to give him up, just through this alone. It is heartbreaking.

 

[JoanneF]

Can you get a large pen where you can pop him in when you need to keep him safe from things like electrics (and vice versa)?

And do you have Kong toys and similar? Frozen food in a Kong is a lifesaver sometimes, licking the food out is occupying, soothing and tiring and lots of pups just flake out after.

 

[Sparkle123]

No our house is just too small for a large pen. We have puppy proofed areas but you just can't proof everything as I mentioned before.
But yes, do have kong toys.
I tried to crate him this morning when my partner was just in the garden, and he cried constantly and tried to scrabble his way out, and biting at the bars. The 'breeder' was male, Barley has 'imprinted' on him (he didnt have anything to do with his wife) and as a result, my partner.
I think the only answer will be that I will have to keep running around after him, for however long that will be and not eat or go to the toilet in that time. Or have him rehomed which would be totally heartbreaking.

 

[JoanneF]

as I mentioned before

Sorry, I tend to forget who has said what ...

 

[Tinytom]

What breed is your pup x

 

[Sparkle123]

What breed is your pup x

Springer Spaniel

 

[Tinytom]

Aw that explains alot ..my neighbours have always had springers .decided on one this time from working stock and she was in a state for the first 6 months ....he is a lovely pup unless they are entertained they are high maintenance especially if an only dog ...

 

[Sparkle123]

Aw that explains alot ..my neighbours have always had springers .decided on one this time from working stock and she was in a state for the first 6 months ....he is a lovely pup unless they are entertained they are high maintenance especially if an only dog ...

Yes that I can imagine. Very high maintenance! We almost had one that had been reared on a farm, didn't know inside a house, and that was even worse! Though I say that, after almost a week, I'd say what we have taken on would make anyone cry!